Callum Rose

[sidelines1]

I've seen him since few times. He's nowhere near ready to take part in a promotion campaign. None of the current crop are.

how many times had you seen this lad mark and the current crop as you say ??

 

[Pele10]

Rashford was thrown into Utds 1st team, only due to so many injuries...what happened to him?

 

[Knibbsworth]

Rashford was thrown into Utds 1st team, only due to so many injuries...what happened to him?

Umm, he scored a handful of goals?

 

[Mark Pedlar]

I've seen him since few times. He's nowhere near ready to take part in a promotion campaign. None of the current crop are.

how many times had you seen this lad mark and the current crop as you say ??

At the time I wrote it 10-15 times over the last couple of years.

 

[Knibbsworth]

I've seen him since few times. He's nowhere near ready to take part in a promotion campaign. None of the current crop are.

How many kids come out of the youth team and straight into a League One player?

It's almost like having a 17/18 year old who is doing his college classes, then making an instant judgement at the end of term whether or not he's as good as builders, plumbers, carpenters and sparkies who have done all those college courses and now have 15 years experience. If it is a straight comparison at that moment in time, except in the case of geniuses and prodigies, 99% of the young lads with little experience will never be as good as the blokes who have lots. We're just not gonna have a lad come out of next year's youth team who can control a game as well as David Fox or ping them in the top corner like Graham Carey, unless we have to have the generation's Paul Gascoigne on our hands.

The real skill in a youth team is identifying which young lads have the potential, between the age of 18-22, to mix it with the first team, to develop exceptionally, to pick up the good habits, to work hard, and have the talent and application to become a professional player with a 10-15 year career ahead of them at the age of 20. Purrington was a lad who knuckled down and had the drive to do it. Sadly most of the young lads coming through the youth team don't really have the potential to make that jump and are likely to stay at SWPL level for the rest of their twenties. To say they would have if they were just nurtured a little better requires a large dose of the imagination.

I enjoy Mark Matthews posts, but I do think he is a little too rose tinted with his view of the Argyle youth team. He has said before he thinks half the Argyle youth team could be promoted to the first team almost seamlessly. I think that is a tad naive.

I think Mark feels that all at least 6 youngsters a season have real potential and are bound to progress with first team football. Like first team football is the water on the saplings, and they all grow steadily together into having the quality of first team starting senior professionals. Sadly it just doesn't happen like that. A lot of Argyle's released youngsters end up in the SWPL, and for every lad like Isaac Vassell who benefited from first team exposure and developed a lot, the other 99% haven't. The Argyle youth set up can only cherry pick the best local footballers of each school year, organise them and try to benefit when a young lad comes along that can make it. The majority of these outstanding kids of each school year were only ever going to go as far as the big amateur clubs across D&C - they were destined to spend their late 30s, 40s and 50s telling everyone at the bar how far they could have gone, the trials they had when they played drunk, they just didn't get the luck etc. When every lad in the playground enjoys football, making it that far is an achievement - making into into the Argyle first team (or any football league first team) is something only a handful of young lads achieve out of thousands and thousands of talented applicants every year.

 

[DartPilgrim]

I've seen him since few times. He's nowhere near ready to take part in a promotion campaign. None of the current crop are.

How many kids come out of the youth team and straight into a League One player?

It's almost like having a 17/18 year old who is doing his college classes, then making an instant judgement at the end of term whether or not he's as good as builders, plumbers, carpenters and sparkies who have done all those college courses and now have 15 years experience. If it is a straight comparison at that moment in time, except in the case of geniuses and prodigies, 99% of the young lads with little experience will never be as good as the blokes who have lots. We're just not gonna have a lad come out of next year's youth team who can control a game as well as David Fox or ping them in the top corner like Graham Carey, unless we have to have the generation's Paul Gascoigne on our hands.

The real skill in a youth team is identifying which young lads have the potential, between the age of 18-22, to mix it with the first team, to develop exceptionally, to pick up the good habits, to work hard, and have the talent and application to become a professional player with a 10-15 year career ahead of them at the age of 20. Purrington was a lad who knuckled down and had the drive to do it. Sadly most of the young lads coming through the youth team don't really have the potential to make that jump and are likely to stay at SWPL level for the rest of their twenties. To say they would have if they were just nurtured a little better requires a large dose of the imagination.

I enjoy Mark Matthews posts, but I do think he is a little too rose tinted with his view of the Argyle youth team. He has said before he thinks half the Argyle youth team could be promoted to the first team almost seamlessly. I think that is a tad naive.

I think Mark feels that all at least 6 youngsters a season have real potential and are bound to progress with first team football. Like first team football is the water on the saplings, and they all grow steadily together into having the quality of first team starting senior professionals. Sadly it just doesn't happen like that. A lot of Argyle's released youngsters end up in the SWPL, and for every lad like Isaac Vassell who benefited from first team exposure and developed a lot, the other 99% haven't. The Argyle youth set up can only cherry pick the best local footballers of each school year, organise them and try to benefit when a young lad comes along that can make it. The majority of these outstanding kids of each school year were only ever going to go as far as the big amateur clubs across D&C. When every lad in the playground enjoys football, making it that far is an achievement - making into into the Argyle first team is something only a handful of young lads achieve out of hundreds of talented applicants.

Pretty much agree with that Mr Knibbs , although we have had Bastow , Gosling and Stephens in recent times step up as youngsters .

 

[Argy1e]

A lot of Argyle's released youngsters end up in the SWPL, and for every lad like Isaac Vassell who benefited from first team exposure and developed a lot, the other 99% haven't.

A lot don't want to move away. Football in Devon is not at a good standard and other than SWPL there aren't too many options available to players who get released. When the choice is move away or play local football a lot will give up the dream to stay around family and friends as there's much less of a risk. A lot of players lose their drive when released at 18, but that's not to say they definitely didn't have the potential to make it. If elsewhere in the country (or if the general standard of football in Devon was higher) I'm certain we'd see more players who leave make their way back up. But they just don't have the options locally available to them.

 

[Knibbsworth]

A lot of Argyle's released youngsters end up in the SWPL, and for every lad like Isaac Vassell who benefited from first team exposure and developed a lot, the other 99% haven't.

A lot don't want to move away. Football in Devon is not at a good standard and other than SWPL there aren't too many options available to players who get released. When the choice is move away or play local football a lot will give up the dream to stay around family and friends as there's much less of a risk. A lot of players lose their drive when released at 18, but that's not to say they definitely didn't have the potential to make it. If elsewhere in the country (or if the general standard of football in Devon was higher) I'm certain we'd see more players who leave make their way back up. But they just don't have the options locally available to them.

Well the reality is that the Plymouth born/local young lads don't earn enough money and still live with their parents. Dropped by Argyle at 18 or 19, and the prospect of moving up the country to join the lower league circuit and being paid less than £100 a week isn't exactly a glamorous proposition when you can play the same standard for Bideford, Tiverton or Plymouth Parkway. When the Hereford FC phoenix club sprang up, they took on a couple of released Argyle lads - Nathan Summers and Sol Wheatley. At a level below the SWPL, Wheatley got released, and Summers dropped back down to the Midland league that Hereford were in after they got promoted. Basically, one promotion and both lads were surplus to requirements in a totally amateur league.

It is a very poor standard of football literally played by tradesmen for beer tokens. And the ex-Argyle youth team lads don't look out of place in it. My point is that not every academy recruit is destined to become a professional player, and a little first competitive team football out of the youth team won't be all that's required to let them develop. Most of Argyle's youth team intake each year will never be better than SWPL standard in their lives. We keep going back to Isaac Vassell as an example of quality youth products we drop who can prove themselves at a lower league and bounce back. But I remember seeing Vassell play against Cheltenham away around 2011, and he had considerable talent - he was skinning their defenders as a skinny kid, and even hit the bar from distance! I'm not surprised he has got a second crack with Luton - he had more talent than our average youth product. Perhaps we got it wrong in releasing Vassell, rather than him being an example of the potential each and every youth product possesses, if they were just given a chance by a Football League club.

 

[MarkMatthews]

Mark Pedlars view that "none of the current crop" being good enough is of course at the extreme other end of the spectrum to my view, in fact I would argue his is more of an extreme position to take, I accept they cant all make it I have welcomed "on the whole " Thursdays decisions, I have not criticised anyone for releasing two of them and whilst I hope Josh and Connor can prove them wrong, if they wish to do so and personally I think Josh will fight to do so, I think Connor very much fits into the profile described by Argy1e (and I agree with a every word of his post.) I could be wrong that's just what I've picked up on personality wise having watched them for the last two years. As gutted as I am for them on a personal level, I would accept that's the decisions made by football people.

I do find Mark Pedlar, as someone who claims to watch this particular year as much as he does, a loan voice in thinking not a single one is good enough to make it. I've argued for a long time this was a peak year, the best since 2014, The fact that we have seen three full Professional contracts offered and three Development-Professional, on what I believe to be vastly improved Ts & Cs from the ones handed out last year. They sound like they may be Ronseal now and do what they say on the tin. Last year I don't think they was very much professional about them and if anything only hindered development. I think it testament to the fact the club certainly think they have potential to be good enough.

I've not read back this thread but wasn't it discussing if we would prefer Rose to Bulvitis or Osborne? I know on those threads I always had a preference for either Callum or Jordan over the other two and we now know one isn't at the club next season, I'm 99.99% sure Bentley and Rose will be contracted to a League one club next season, I'm not so sure on Bulvitis if I'm being honest.

Bit disappointed they aren't involved today I know the arguments for going for the title but most Argyle fans that would be a (very nice) bonus the arguments against bringing youth through in recent years has been "promotion out of this awful division at all costs." We've got that now. If they involved at Grimsby because we cant win the title, even if they impress the argument will be it was a dead rubber and any bloke from the dog and duck team could have looked good. I think let them have a go in a meaningful game but safe in the knowledge we are up. You never know they might even be the individuals who ultimately win the title. We shouldn't be scared.

Whilst I see the point Knibbsworth is making and indeed I have used the seedling analogy my self in the past, I think the counter argument is it seems to work at Exeter and Crewe. There is only one way they can get experience, experienced players are there because managers have given them brakes, they don't grow on trees, even Sonny Bradley had to have his first game once!

 

[Argy1e]

A lot of Argyle's released youngsters end up in the SWPL, and for every lad like Isaac Vassell who benefited from first team exposure and developed a lot, the other 99% haven't.

A lot don't want to move away. Football in Devon is not at a good standard and other than SWPL there aren't too many options available to players who get released. When the choice is move away or play local football a lot will give up the dream to stay around family and friends as there's much less of a risk. A lot of players lose their drive when released at 18, but that's not to say they definitely didn't have the potential to make it. If elsewhere in the country (or if the general standard of football in Devon was higher) I'm certain we'd see more players who leave make their way back up. But they just don't have the options locally available to them.

Well the reality is that the Plymouth born/local young lads don't earn enough money and still live with their parents. Dropped by Argyle at 18 or 19, and the prospect of moving up the country to join the lower league circuit and being paid less than £100 a week isn't exactly a glamorous proposition when you can play the same standard for Bideford, Tiverton or Plymouth Parkway. When the Hereford FC phoenix club sprang up, they took on a couple of released Argyle lads - Nathan Summers and Sol Wheatley. At a level below the SWPL, Wheatley got released, and Summers dropped back down to the Midland league that Hereford were in after they got promoted. Basically, one promotion and both lads were surplus to requirements in a totally amateur league.

It is a very poor standard of football literally played by tradesmen for beer tokens. And the ex-Argyle youth team lads don't look out of place in it. My point is that not every academy recruit is destined to become a professional player, and a little first competitive team football out of the youth team won't be all that's required to let them develop. Most of Argyle's youth team intake each year will never be better than SWPL standard in their lives. We keep going back to Isaac Vassell as an example of quality youth products we drop who can prove themselves at a lower league and bounce back. But I remember seeing Vassell play against Cheltenham away around 2011, and he had considerable talent - he was skinning their defenders as a skinny kid, and even hit the bar from distance! I'm not surprised he has got a second crack with Luton - he had more talent than our average youth product. Perhaps we got it wrong in releasing Vassell, rather than him being an example of the potential each and every youth product possesses, if they were just given a chance by a Football League club.

Oh I do generally agree with that, I don't think every player is destined to make it, but I do think we've had a few in recent years who could have had they been at a different club.