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Will Cummings bring Johnson down?

Oct 9, 2003
3,557
35
Aberdeen
Martyn":24b71pox said:
Frank_Butcher":24b71pox said:
Quinny":24b71pox said:
Well maybe the incumbent Government should be less sleazy so that the only thing they could be attacked on would be their policies.

C'mon Quinny. I think you know I'm no Boris fan, but Labour have been pretty ineffective since Starmer took over. I appreciate that it hasn't been easy in reaching a balance with the pandemic, but set that aside their is nothing breaking through on the policy front - either to take on the Tories or set a vision for themselves. Maybe it's all been put on ice but they will have a mountain to climb if they leave it much longer. I still think their leader is too 'grey' and the front bench is weak - it says a lot when Miliband is one of the stand-outs. At least the looney leftie predecessors stood for something, unelectable as that may have been.

Starmer has slaughtered Bojo, at every PMQ’s,
Look at this week, Johnson, was very angry, thanks to Starmers questions. Johnson nearly lost it completely at one stage, and it confirms the reports that he lost it, when he made those disgraceful comments, about ‘bodies being piled up. When he shouted thru an open door.

We disagree on the point about what he said. I can well imagine him using a crass and insensitive throwaway comment like that simply to emphasise how much he wanted to avoid another lockdown.

On PMQs, it's kind of 'so what?' as they say....
 
Dec 27, 2004
739
26
Bidford on Avon
My point about policy was nobody really has any at the moment in my opinion.

It's politics by Twitter with partys of all persuasions looking for the cheap gag and instant headline rather than the longer term.

If you're not a tribal follower they're all appalling in my opinion. We've descended to American style shouting matches, as these boards atest to ... sad.

No party dare say anything unpopular, but beneficial in the long term.

Focus groups of party supporters are not the general public.

My point about Boris us as I've consistently said "ask not what Britain can do for you, ask what you can do for Britain" to pinch a famous quote

Sadly he couldn't give two hoots - all about the World King
 
Sorry to repeat myself, but oppositions don’t win elections, governments lose them. For Labour to get ahead in the polls a huge number of swing voters need to admit they were wrong at the general election, and that ain’t gonna happen.

It’s scary how gullible voters are. Told that our country’s vaccine success was down to Johnson’s foresight and planning and they believe it. Deny the sleaze through obfuscation and lies, and they believe it.

Starmer can easily win the weekly PMQs battle and enthuse his troops, but I would doubt as many as 1% of the electorate notices or cares.

Like Trump, Johnson is such a colourful character that huge unthinking numbers will follow him, because he doesn’t burden them with difficult choices. For many he got Brexit done and delivered the vaccine, therefore his past misdemeanours and current lies mean nothing. Like Trump, he also has the advantage of being memorable, whilst competence in the shape of Starmer is grey and rarely at the front of the news.

I also think that pundits have underestimated the size of the knock to Labour’s credibility under Corbyn, probably the weakest opposition leader in my lifetime. I think it will take years to regain that belief, and even then it will need the government to run out of steam, as they all inevitably do.

I know this is all a very bleak outlook for middle of the road voters like me who hate extremes of left or right, but I think Starmer has no choice but to stick to the road he’s on.
 
Dec 27, 2004
739
26
Bidford on Avon
mervyn":j1m4p34t said:
Sorry to repeat myself, but oppositions don’t win elections, governments lose them. For Labour to get ahead in the polls a huge number of swing voters need to admit they were wrong at the general election, and that ain’t gonna happen.

It’s scary how gullible voters are. Told that our country’s vaccine success was down to Johnson’s foresight and planning and they believe it. Deny the sleaze through obfuscation and lies, and they believe it.

Starmer can easily win the weekly PMQs battle and enthuse his troops, but I would doubt as many as 1% of the electorate notices or cares.

Like Trump, Johnson is such a colourful character that huge unthinking numbers will follow him, because he doesn’t burden them with difficult choices. For many he got Brexit done and delivered the vaccine, therefore his past misdemeanours and current lies mean nothing. Like Trump, he also has the advantage of being memorable, whilst competence in the shape of Starmer is grey and rarely at the front of the news.

I also think that pundits have underestimated the size of the knock to Labour’s credibility under Corbyn, probably the weakest opposition leader in my lifetime. I think it will take years to regain that belief, and even then it will need the government to run out of steam, as they all inevitably do.

I know this is all a very bleak outlook for middle of the road voters like me who hate extremes of left or right, but I think Starmer has no choice but to stick to the road he’s on.

Nail, hit, head :clap:

Boris is a fast-food politician all slogans and lies, but no substance sadly.

The bulk of the population can't be bothered to dig into the actual substance.

As above I think Starmer has no choice but to pursue a more pragmatic sensible style and hope that as the focus shifts away from Covid and more towards actual competence the public will react.

The vaccination success has masked pretty poor government throughout Johnson's reign IMHO, but opinion seems to shifting if the latest Survation survey is to be believed.

I don't think local elections will really show anything as many won't vote, due to safety reasons. I know postal is an option, but I never registered and won't bother like many I suspect.

Boris is hoping the vaccinated elderly - predominantly Conservative voters will.

And people thought the wallpaper stunt was opportunism :lol:
 
Nov 15, 2011
1,743
149
The survation poll today has Tory lead down to 1%, maybe starmer / corruption are cutting through, enough with libs snp to boot Johnson out. And that’s during vaccines bounce and before furlough ends and brexit really bites.
 
Dec 27, 2004
739
26
Bidford on Avon
themightykeithfear":2w8lr46e said:
The survation poll today has Tory lead down to 1%, maybe starmer / corruption are cutting through, enough with libs snp to boot Johnson out. And that’s during vaccines bounce and before furlough ends and brexit really bites.

Indeed it was survation kmtf :thumbup:

It seems suggests the trust has gone and the bluster and distraction hasn't changed people's view that he is in fact not believed on the bodies comment

Running out of dead cats - even with Tory friendly press :silent:
 
May 8, 2011
4,666
44
Noticeable that Johnson stayed clear of Scotland during the election campaign. When was the last time that a UK prime minister was so despised in one part of the country.
 
Nov 15, 2011
1,743
149
Funny isn't it that just a few miles away the working class people of Hartlepool look as if they're going to cheer Johnson home, despite Nadine Dories tweet the other day when she couldn't even spell the town name and claimed the tories were creating 180,000 jobs there, even though the population is only 90,000. 2 new jobs each?

Scotland is tricky for Johnson , on one hand he doesn't give a stuff about them, but he doesn't want to be the PM who broke up the UK. There won't be a 2nd ref until later next year at the earliest, but it will happen and the only way for Johnson to stop it will be to legislate against it. Even his own people say that legislating against the will of the people in taking back control is a step too far.
 
May 8, 2011
4,666
44
themightykeithfear":1u0mzlog said:
Funny isn't it that just a few miles away the working class people of Hartlepool look as if they're going to cheer Johnson home, despite Nadine Dories tweet the other day when she couldn't even spell the town name and claimed the tories were creating 180,000 jobs there, even though the population is only 90,000. 2 new jobs each?

Scotland is tricky for Johnson , on one hand he doesn't give a stuff about them, but he doesn't want to be the PM who broke up the UK. There won't be a 2nd ref until later next year at the earliest, but it will happen and the only way for Johnson to stop it will be to legislate against it. Even his own people say that legislating against the will of the people in taking back control is a step too far.

Northern Ireland is also likely to leave the UK as well. Could be Brexit that is the thing that pushes both NI and Scotland to leave, as both voted to remain so are having all the problems from Brexit imposed on them when they didn’t vote for it.
 
Oct 9, 2003
3,557
35
Aberdeen
HC Green":10h8hh1h said:
Noticeable that Johnson stayed clear of Scotland during the election campaign. When was the last time that a UK prime minister was so despised in one part of the country.

I rather think the difference between Ruth Davidson and Douglas Ross would be impinging on the Tory vote in Scotland - much more so than anything to do with Johnson. Remarkably though, despite everything, the Tory polling suggests a similar return as last time. Meanwhile, the last couple of months have seen a decided swing against independence - another positive sign for Unionists. The SNP will of course dominate, but if the Tories end up ‘standing still’ with such a lightweight leader in Scotland, I think they’d see that as a result.
 
Oct 9, 2003
3,557
35
Aberdeen
Pilgrim_Joe":3d2srppn said:
It seems suggests the trust has gone and the bluster and distraction hasn't changed people's view that he is in fact not believed on the bodies comment

Running out of dead cats - even with Tory friendly press :silent:

I find it amazing - supposed Brexit disaster, Covid, sleaze allegations and we’re approaching mid-term, traditionally a government’s weak point.

Yet, the Tories are forecasted to take another red by-election seat, make modest gains in Wales, even claim a point or two in London (though Khan will win comfortably) and stand still or make minor losses in Scotland.

And you get excited about one poll showing the Tories leading by one point? Really? By the way the Britain elects poll of polls still shows the Tories with a 7 point advantage despite all the carp going on.

Labour must do better. This is too easy for the Tories and being centre right, I don’t much like that amount of power - checks and balances are important.
 
Nov 15, 2011
1,743
149
I’m not sure exactly what more Labour can do when 40% of the electorate likes being lied to as long as the liar has a Union Jack behind him.

It’s been a long and miserable year and the vaccine bounce has certainly given people a feel good factor and it still appears many believe this levelling up nonsense. Add the fact that the brexit damage to the city, fishermen, exporters farmers NI has been masked by covid, and Brexit is less than half done, I will reserve my judgment on Labour until the autumn when furlough ends and reality starts to hit home.

That’s not to say starmer has done a good job, he hasn’t or that all these factors will change people’s minds, they may not, but it’s undeniable that the world will be a v different place in 6 months time.
 
Jan 20, 2004
722
17
Labours decline has been slowly happening for many years now, due mainly to the gradual decline in the power and appeal of the unions and, apart from Blair's centre left 'New Labour', has really only amounted to a protest party endorsed by and delivered a mortal blow by Corbyn's leadership.

Only 40%, and that is near enough the high water mark, support a right leaning nationalist viewpoint represented in the main by the Tories. The problem being the other 60% are too fragmented in their opposition and while our current electoral system exists the Tories rub their hands.

The sooner Labour and its supporters wake up to the fact they need a total image change or make over by amalgamating with the Greens and even the Lib Dems to represent a united approach to the progressive views of the world, I'm afraid they will forever remain in opposition.

You only need to look to Germany, to see how a high tech minded green movement is evolving in mainstream government too see the way forward.
 
Jul 15, 2006
3,848
39
Kenton, Devon
Feels like we're drifting into the subject matter of one of the other threads here... :greensmile:

Starmer has the same problem that Corbyn before (and Miliband before him) is that they have to unify two different factions in their party: when JC was in charge the grass-roots supporters were happy, but those who were more left of centre felt isolated (much as those to the left of the party felt isolated when Blair was party leader). Starmer has move more to the right to try and appeal more to the centralists, but is facing challenges from those with more socialist leanings.

Don't get me wrong - I think Starmer is the right man to lead the party, and I am under no illusion that he'll bring them to power in the next GE: I think that'll be another Tory Government. But one thing everyone has to remember is that, since the Labour Party was founded in 1900, they have only been in Government for a total of 34 years. 34 out of 121 years. Even the Liberal Party have been in power for 17 years - half of that of the Labour Party (I'm not including the coalition Govt here from 10 years ago, or the war Govt during WW2 here) - in the same period. The rest of the time it has been Conservative. This *is* a right-of-centre country, and voters only seem to look to Labour at times of (usually) economic hardship (post WW2, the 70s, post late 80s crash). The austerity years seem to fly in the face of that, but then we had Brexit which was a bit of a curve-ball.