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Will Cummings bring Johnson down?

Jul 15, 2006
3,844
35
Kenton, Devon
Pottypilgrim":7dc475mc said:
Dont be like some idiots on here Quinny. Is this Bill to make marches/protests illegal? We both know its not so why say it.

No, it isn't what the law is about - I was being flippant. However, given the chance I'd put good money on Patel wanting to stamp down on any kind of social protest (especially one which paralyses the centre of London). But that's my opinion...

Also, is having Corbyn leading the Party really a Labour failing? Isn't the Leader of a Political Party elected? Think that its the Labour party members that failed there? Are you a Labour party member Quinny?

No, I'm not a member of the Labour party - as is the vast majority of the electorate who regularly vote Labour in elections (actually I vote LibDem in local elections, mainly because there usually aren't any Labour candidates in my area) - but that doesn't stop me having an opinion as to who would be better placed to be leader of the party. I like Corbyn - I like and agree with a lot of his opinions - but given the shift of the Overton Window in the UK to the right, his stance is more and more at odds with the general feeling of the country. As far as I am concerned (again, my opinion), the Labour Party is more likely to remove the Tories from power under Starmer than under Corbyn (or one of his supporters).

Leading us into war was a massive failing but I've yet to hear any actual condemnation of Blair or a calling for him to be held accountable by the lefties on here. They're quick to call out the Conservatives. All I've heard is them telling me that they went on the march.

OK - I'll call out on Blair. I think he was wrong to lead us into that War, I believe he misled Parliament and the population as to the reasons why we should have gone to war. He was told - twice - by the Attorney General at the time that it was illegal, and Lord Goldsmith was sent away by Blair twice to find a way to make it legal. Kofi Anan at the time said the invasion was illegal.

I would not shed any tears if Blair was tried in an international court over this. Happy now?
 
Sep 2, 2008
1,792
22
Tbh, I kinda feel that I'm a bit out of order really in bringing Blair/Iraq into the conversation as its completely off topic so apologies for that.

I was just getting a bit annoyed by the constant attacking of the Conservatives and trying to illustrate that it really doesn't matter who is leading the Country. At the end of the day, politicians are conniving, untrustworthy individuals and whomever is in the chair, they will inevitably try to furnish their own nest and push their own agendas irrespective of their pre election promises.

Also Quinny, as much as you like Corbyn, he wouldn't have been any different. His manifesto was in effect a gross lie as it never actually articulated his true intentions.

Back on topic though: Imo, Cummings wont bring Johnson down. As people have said already there are too many people focussing on other things and as long as what he does doesn't directly impact on them then they will just carry on regardless.
 

signalspast

50/50 Sponsor
Aug 17, 2005
1,302
17
What is really sad about it all after x amount of years in power the opposition can only use sleaze to attack them and not policies.
 
May 16, 2016
3,727
121
signalspast":3kx9jydx said:
What is really sad about it all after x amount of years in power the opposition can only use sleaze to attack them and not policies.

This is the thing. Despite whatever failings the Tories might have, they've been doing them for almost a generation since somebody else was in power. Even now, other than wallpaper, nobody really knows what Labour stand for or who they represent.

It could be argued that even now, they continually fail to read the room and tend to dive down into the weeds to quickly, a bit like this forum does. Starmers ploy to trap Boris into denying he said something in the heat of the moment that was apparently overheard from outside of his office so he can claim he misled the house, might be seen as a clever move by his supporters but to those desperate to see and hear a believable alternative, it's just pathetic.

Convince us you're right and stop trying to prove everyone else is wrong and they might fall on the right side of history for the first time since 2005.
 
Nov 15, 2011
1,713
133
Under the new legislation the police can close down any protest they deemed to be too noisy or making people feel uneasy. A protest against a war would a good example of what they could stop.

Labour under starmer have buckets of new policy proposals but since they’re not going to be in power for sometime they’re barely reported at all.
 
Sep 25, 2010
2,706
125
signalspast":3cu1sxo6 said:
What is really sad about it all after x amount of years in power the opposition can only use sleaze to attack them and not policies.

But look at the total amount of sleaze there is., from the Tories. They are renowned for it.

With more to come from Mr. Cummings.
 
Oct 9, 2003
3,543
25
Aberdeen
Quinny":18af2wfw said:
Well maybe the incumbent Government should be less sleazy so that the only thing they could be attacked on would be their policies.

C'mon Quinny. I think you know I'm no Boris fan, but Labour have been pretty ineffective since Starmer took over. I appreciate that it hasn't been easy in reaching a balance with the pandemic, but set that aside their is nothing breaking through on the policy front - either to take on the Tories or set a vision for themselves. Maybe it's all been put on ice but they will have a mountain to climb if they leave it much longer. I still think their leader is too 'grey' and the front bench is weak - it says a lot when Miliband is one of the stand-outs. At least the looney leftie predecessors stood for something, unelectable as that may have been.
 
Nov 15, 2011
1,713
133
Dame Edna Everage looks a bit grey compared to Johnson. I think I’d like a bit of grey for a while rather than the chaos and corruption we’re currently being served up.

I did have to laugh though when starmer was a bit less grey with his John Lewis wallpaper gag and the tories furiously accused him of playing politics. These are the same people who fawned and dribbled admiringly when Johnson knocked over some plastic bricks with a JCB.
 

signalspast

50/50 Sponsor
Aug 17, 2005
1,302
17
Quinny":24gvgbff said:
Well maybe the incumbent Government should be less sleazy so that the only thing they could be attacked on would be their policies.

Maybe, but the sleaze attacks will be tomorrow's chip paper. Labour has to convince the public that they will be better off under them. Yes its very meme but that is how the general public will vote. The perception that they would be better off under x party and until Labour put forward policies that show it to try and convince the public, they will remain in the shadows.
 
Dec 27, 2004
723
25
Bidford on Avon
signalspast":3fddi28i said:
Quinny":3fddi28i said:
Well maybe the incumbent Government should be less sleazy so that the only thing they could be attacked on would be their policies.

Maybe, but the sleaze attacks will be tomorrow's chip paper. Labour has to convince the public that they will be better off under them. Yes its very meme but that is how the general public will vote. The perception that they would be better off under x party and until Labour put forward policies that show it to try and convince the public, they will remain in the shadows.

This made me laugh SP

I'm centre so follow no one, but what are the Conservatives policies?

Get Brexit done ..... and what else?

I've seen lots of fluff announcements, but nothing you could hang your hat on.

They've become the Boris at any cost - literally, party.

In my eyes the same as Corbyn's Labour.

Boris is just using the success of the NHS' vaccine rollout to cloak himself in. Notice no one brings up Test and Trace a stonking £25B success.

Once the actual glow of the vaccine delivery completes and attention turns to other things let's see how he's perceived.

For example how's the Norwegian fishing going? Another day, another lie
 
Oct 9, 2003
3,543
25
Aberdeen
Oh I don't know Joe, I think tmkf has mentioned Test and Trace once or twice :crazy: .

TBF I'd have to disagree about the Tory policy thing. In the same way that Labour has struggled to find a balance with the pandemic, Tory policy elsewhere has been somewhat missing from the front pages. But I would cite fiscal policy being broadly considered as good (with some holes), the HIP programme in the NHS which is gathering momentum, new trading arrangements strating to appear, incentivising the housing market (some of which I think is overdone now), bringing forward sustainability targets, increased investment in schools (something we have definitely seen in our business) ....

But regardless of whether you accept these or not, I think sp's point is being missed. It isn't about the government per se, it is incumbent on the opposition to offer a credible alternative. They aren't (at the moment).
 
May 16, 2016
3,727
121
Frank_Butcher":186kq125 said:
Oh I don't know Joe, I think tmkf has mentioned Test and Trace once or twice :crazy: .

TBF I'd have to disagree about the Tory policy thing. In the same way that Labour has struggled to find a balance with the pandemic, Tory policy elsewhere has been somewhat missing from the front pages. But I would cite fiscal policy being broadly considered as good (with some holes), the HIP programme in the NHS which is gathering momentum, new trading arrangements strating to appear, incentivising the housing market (some of which I think is overdone now), bringing forward sustainability targets, increased investment in schools (something we have definitely seen in our business) ....

But regardless of whether you accept these or not, I think sp's point is being missed. It isn't about the government per se, it is incumbent on the opposition to offer a credible alternative. They aren't (at the moment).

Agree, it's the point often made in your last paragraph that always seems to fly over a few heads. We all love a good protest, but occasionally it would be nice to have a little more.
 
Sep 25, 2010
2,706
125
Frank_Butcher":1gl71qsc said:
Quinny":1gl71qsc said:
Well maybe the incumbent Government should be less sleazy so that the only thing they could be attacked on would be their policies.

C'mon Quinny. I think you know I'm no Boris fan, but Labour have been pretty ineffective since Starmer took over. I appreciate that it hasn't been easy in reaching a balance with the pandemic, but set that aside their is nothing breaking through on the policy front - either to take on the Tories or set a vision for themselves. Maybe it's all been put on ice but they will have a mountain to climb if they leave it much longer. I still think their leader is too 'grey' and the front bench is weak - it says a lot when Miliband is one of the stand-outs. At least the looney leftie predecessors stood for something, unelectable as that may have been.

Starmer has slaughtered Bojo, at every PMQ’s,
Look at this week, Johnson, was very angry, thanks to Starmers questions. Johnson nearly lost it completely at one stage, and it confirms the reports that he lost it, when he made those disgraceful comments, about ‘bodies being piled up. When he shouted thru an open door.