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Will Cummings bring Johnson down?

Feb 26, 2012
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Ivybridge
That’s the point. No one does as it’s offensive and rightly so. Why should you post about how awful the Oxbridge lot are when you know nothing about them either? There are good and bad on both sides.

As I said judge people on what they do, not their background.
OG - I doubt you would have seen many that worked their way up given the times you are referring to. That is exactly my point, no offence but to be blunt your reference belongs in the past.

Before retiring earlier this year, I worked for one of the world’s biggest IT companies in a fairly senior position. I had the absolute pleasure of mentoring and working with some extremely bright young graduates who had passed through Russell Group unis, coming from all sorts of social backgrounds and all ethnicities. They were inspiring and the opportunity that is available to them today could never have happened in the times you speak of. Or I may refer to my daughters friend of very modest means who from a humble secondary education made it to Oxford. Splendid!

So you see, these are the people who are undermined by comments like yours, as is the grim association that well spoken people are toffs. My daughter speaks very articulately but I can assure you Mike that has nothing to do with class or privilege. She is certainly not land and gentry 😂.

To be honest I find both your viewpoints a little disappointing and outdated. Looking in a perceived upward direction with disdain is as bad as looking perceptibly down in my book.

@Doc, your last para = spot on 👍
Fair comment...my experiences were in the 80s and 90s. My working class chip is showing, I'll work on it.
 
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Jan 20, 2004
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OG - I doubt you would have seen many that worked their way up given the times you are referring to. That is exactly my point, no offence but to be blunt your reference belongs in the past.

Before retiring earlier this year, I worked for one of the world’s biggest IT companies in a fairly senior position. I had the absolute pleasure of mentoring and working with some extremely bright young graduates who had passed through Russell Group unis, coming from all sorts of social backgrounds and all ethnicities. They were inspiring and the opportunity that is available to them today could never have happened in the times you speak of. Or I may refer to my daughters friend of very modest means who from a humble secondary education made it to Oxford. Splendid!

So you see, these are the people who are undermined by comments like yours, as is the grim association that well spoken people are toffs. My daughter speaks very articulately but I can assure you Mike that has nothing to do with class or privilege. She is certainly not land and gentry 😂.

To be honest I find both your viewpoints a little disappointing and outdated. Looking in a perceived upward direction with disdain is as bad as looking perceptibly down in my book.

@Doc, your last para = spot on 👍
I am not undermining anyone Frank, the point I am making is that, it is generally, possibly subconsciously, percieved 'well spoken' Oxbridge English wrongly portrays a more educated demeanor than a parochial accent. In no way does that diss upward mobility.

Even Margaret Thatcher had election therapy to refine her image in public life.

The landed gentry remark was more flippant and detracts from my point. However for centuries due to our feudal system, the landed gentry were percieved by the workers in the fields as being better educated and their accent is the one that has prevailed to this day.

In no way does an Oxbridge accent mean that someone is better educated, in fact it can often disguise, in the eyes of the public, how ignorant they actually are. Take Rees Magg and Johnson as good examples.
 
Jan 20, 2004
804
57
I am not undermining anyone Frank, the point I am making is that, it is generally, possibly subconsciously, percieved 'well spoken' Oxbridge English wrongly portrays a more educated demeanor than a parochial accent. In no way does that diss upward mobility.

Even Margaret Thatcher had election therapy to refine her image in public life.

The landed gentry remark was more flippant and detracts from my point. However for centuries due to our feudal system, the landed gentry were percieved by the workers in the fields as being better educated and their accent is the one that has prevailed to this day.

In no way does an Oxbridge accent mean that someone is better educated, in fact it can often disguise, in the eyes of the public, how ignorant they actually are. Take Rees Magg and Johnson as good examples.
Sorry that should read Thatcher had elecution therapy.
 

Frank Butcher

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Oct 9, 2003
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Gairloch
I am not undermining anyone Frank, the point I am making is that, it is generally, possibly subconsciously, percieved 'well spoken' Oxbridge English wrongly portrays a more educated demeanor than a parochial accent. In no way does that diss upward mobility.

Even Margaret Thatcher had election therapy to refine her image in public life.

The landed gentry remark was more flippant and detracts from my point. However for centuries due to our feudal system, the landed gentry were percieved by the workers in the fields as being better educated and their accent is the one that has prevailed to this day.

In no way does an Oxbridge accent mean that someone is better educated, in fact it can often disguise, in the eyes of the public, how ignorant they actually are. Take Rees Magg and Johnson as good examples.

That’s fair Mike. I retract.
 
Back to Paterson I was very impressed with the John Major interview this morning. He totally agreed he faced the same problems as leader with the cash for questions debacle, but contrast his response. He set up a full commission of enquiry which led to the parliamentary standards committee being created , with full cross party support. Johnson’s reaction to the same problem is an attempt to remove the committee and replace it with mates, who are themselves the subject of the current committee’s investigations. You couldn’t make it up, hence Lord Richard’s very pertinent question ‘are we becoming a corrupt government’.
 

The Doctor

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John Major is an interesting case - he left school at 16 with three A Levels… and is one of only 8 Prime Ministers not to have attended university.
 

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John Major is an interesting case - he left school at 16 with three A Levels… and is one of only 8 Prime Ministers not to have attended university.
'O' Levels Doc. 'A' Levels were at 18 and were what you needed to go to Uni.
Interesting that he seems to have left because his family were 'poorer' than the norm at his school even tho' it was a grammar.
 

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'O' Levels Doc. 'A' Levels were at 18 and were what you needed to go to Uni.
Interesting that he seems to have left because his family were 'poorer' than the norm at his school even tho' it was a grammar.
Quite right - O Levels. My mistake - typo. I should know the difference - I did quite a few of both!
 

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Quite right - O Levels. My mistake - typo. I should know the difference - I did quite a few of both!
I had a right interesting discussion with my eldest granddaughter (16) who got her GCSE results whilst we were in Greece on holiday.
Trying to explain that I did A-e grades at GCE O level whilst she got 9-1 in her results plus some of her exams were 'technical' whilst others were academic. Really quite difficult to chat and exchange anecdotes across 55 years but fun to try! ;)
 

The Doctor

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I had a right interesting discussion with my eldest granddaughter (16) who got her GCSE results whilst we were in Greece on holiday.
Trying to explain that I did A-e grades at GCE O level whilst she got 9-1 in her results plus some of her exams were 'technical' whilst others were academic. Really quite difficult to chat and exchange anecdotes across 55 years but fun to try! ;)
Throw in the fact that in my classes at school we had some kids taking GCE O Levels (letter grades), some doing GCEs (number grades) and some doing both. In fact in my maths class we probably had something like 12/30 kids doing both sets of exams (exams note - there was no such thing as coursework in those days) but everyone passed their O Level. I think there were something like 27 A grades in that class including by some who got a grade 2 CSE. If I recall correctly Grade 1 CSE was considered equivalent to a C grade O Level (C being the lowest ‘pass’ grade at the time). Miss Groves was a fantastic maths teacher and I was lucky to have her for all 5 years of my secondary school education.
Now, what was this thread about again? I honestly can’t remember!
 
Jan 20, 2004
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Back to Paterson I was very impressed with the John Major interview this morning. He totally agreed he faced the same problems as leader with the cash for questions debacle, but contrast his response. He set up a full commission of enquiry which led to the parliamentary standards committee being created , with full cross party support. Johnson’s reaction to the same problem is an attempt to remove the committee and replace it with mates, who are themselves the subject of the current committee’s investigations. You couldn’t make it up, hence Lord Richard’s very pertinent question ‘are we becoming a corrupt government’.
John Major is one of the few principled politicians within that party and has been hounded by them for being so.

Its worrying that Kathryn Stone the chief investigator of the Standards Commision needs security protection, but her investigations could be the tip of the iceberg. The investigation into Randox Laboratories, one of Paterson's paymasters also reveals that they recieved £500m for PPE equipment (that proved to be faulty) at the start of the pandemic, rushed through by Hancock, without proper tendering, under the guise of urgency.

This current Tory government under Johnson's premiership is proving that 'taking back control' enables them to channel tax payers money to their mates and associated businesses just like in Putins Russia. Purely coincidence that as many as fourteen conservative mps have declared donations from various different Russian Oligarchs.

Without the scrutiny of the independent Standards Commission, that Boris Johnson wants to replace with his own appointees, we are in danger of sinking into a corrupt government quagmire from which we would be unable to extracate ourselves, as the procurement process would require greasing palms in all directions.
 
Dec 27, 2004
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Bidford on Avon

Ministers unveil proposals that could raise retirement age to 68 SEVEN YEARS sooner than previously announced - forcing millions born in the 1970s to tear up their plans​


I mentioned this a while back and it was rubbished as speculation, maybe not then.

Boris trying to hide bad news amongst the Covid pass and restrictions furore - he wouldn't surely would he?
🤔

Trust in Boris - there's an inappropriate slogan eh🤦‍♂️