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Will Cummings bring Johnson down?

signalspast

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Aug 17, 2005
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Quinny":3jlwhyh8 said:
signalspast":3jlwhyh8 said:
Well first statement of the day by the chairman is that Cummings hasn't provided the promised hard copies to substantiate his allegations.

There is a school of thought amongst some Tory MPs (what I read this morning) that Cummings is going to wait until after Hancock has made his appearance before producing any evidence. If he did it beforehand, Hancock could try to wriggle out of it. If Cummings produces them after and if it contradicts anything Hancock says today, then that'll be career over for him.

Yes that could happen or what he has contradicts what he said. Anything is just supposition at the moment but anything he has said previously is now held in suspicion at today's questioning
 
Nov 15, 2011
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Well not by most Tory mps and Boris Johnson, they backed him to the hilt last year and said he was a man of total integrity.
 

Willis88

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Jan 17, 2017
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Bovey Tracey
Seems Cummings is more interested in Handcock.

I wonder whether he's going for a house of cards approach (poke Handcock who on his way down lashed out at BoJo), or whether he's concluded he won't topple Boris so goes for the easy target
 
Nov 15, 2011
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Cummings has started releasing Whatsapp messages between him and Johnson, no surprises, they would bring down any previous Government, but not this one where morality and truth is subservient to loyalty to the Dear Leader.

Includes Johnson saying Hancock is "totally f...ing hopeless" but he's still in post a year later.
 
Jul 15, 2006
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Kenton, Devon
Quinny":wtprj3i8 said:
signalspast":wtprj3i8 said:
Well first statement of the day by the chairman is that Cummings hasn't provided the promised hard copies to substantiate his allegations.

There is a school of thought amongst some Tory MPs (what I read this morning) that Cummings is going to wait until after Hancock has made his appearance before producing any evidence. If he did it beforehand, Hancock could try to wriggle out of it. If Cummings produces them after and if it contradicts anything Hancock says today, then that'll be career over for him.

Seems this is the case.

Reading Cummings' blog, I don't think there's enough there [yet] to force Hancock to be forced out, but Dom does sign it off to suggest there's more to come. I bet there'll be a few uncomfortable talks in No 10 over the next 24 hours.

If Hancock isn't sacked or resigned, I bet he won't survive in his current job the next time there's a Cabinet "reshuffle".
 
Sep 2, 2008
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Willis88":32aq1rl4 said:
Seems Cummings is more interested in Handcock.

I wonder whether he's going for a house of cards approach (poke Handcock who on his way down lashed out at BoJo), or whether he's concluded he won't topple Boris so goes for the easy target

I agree. He certainly does seem to have a bit of a bee in his bonnet over Hancock :lol:
 
Oct 9, 2003
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Aberdeen
Have to say I find the Cummings WhatsApp message totally dispiriting - as well as the response. He seems hell bent on dobbing Hancock in to his boss - very much like a child telling tales. While his boss (whether talking about Hancock or the situation itself - which IMO is debateable) just plays to his audience.

Probably a cultural thing in the corridors of power, but in such circumstances there's no doubt that in the company I worked for the response would have been 'OK, this isn't good. What do we need to do to fix this?'

All a bit rubbish really.
 
Nov 15, 2011
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I think the point is Frank, not the telling tales side of it, or the dysfunctionality of Government but that a year ago everyone in charge knew that Hancock was totally hopeless, and that a year on he's still in charge of the Health of the country and we're still in a pandemic. How many lives have been lost because a totally hopeless Minister wasn't replaced?
 
Jul 15, 2006
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I have to side with Frank here, Keith. When Dom Cummings gave evidence to the Parliamentary committee a couple of weeks ago, he said that he had documents and evidence that Hancock was at fault and his decisions had led to avoidable deaths. That evidence hasn't been released, and if what Dom posted yesterday on his blog is his "smoking gun" then Jeremy Hunt has every right to be disappointed. That isn't evidence - it's just WhatsApp chats saying that 'X' thinks 'Y' is useless. Yes, we know he's out of his depth as Health Sec - hell, I hate it that Hancock makes Jeremy Hunt look effective when he was in that role - but those screenshots isn't evidence. Embarrassing: yes. Damning: no.

Hancock has one achilles heel in his Dept's response to the pandemic, and that was around the Govt's response to the care-homes. That was handled appallingly badly and even last year he and his Dept were trying to change the narrative around when they were "ring-fencing" the homes, and that was the bit where Hancock was floundering the most under the polite questioning from the committee when he faced them last week. If Cummings hasn't got the dirt on him over that, then Cummings hasn't got anything on him of any worth.
 
Nov 15, 2011
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Quinny":k1jh2ru4 said:
I have to side with Frank here, Keith. When Dom Cummings gave evidence to the Parliamentary committee a couple of weeks ago, he said that he had documents and evidence that Hancock was at fault and his decisions had led to avoidable deaths. That evidence hasn't been released, and if what Dom posted yesterday on his blog is his "smoking gun" then Jeremy Hunt has every right to be disappointed. That isn't evidence - it's just WhatsApp chats saying that 'X' thinks 'Y' is useless. Yes, we know he's out of his depth as Health Sec - hell, I hate it that Hancock makes Jeremy Hunt look effective when he was in that role - but those screenshots isn't evidence. Embarrassing: yes. Damning: no.

Hancock has one achilles heel in his Dept's response to the pandemic, and that was around the Govt's response to the care-homes. That was handled appallingly badly and even last year he and his Dept were trying to change the narrative around when they were "ring-fencing" the homes, and that was the bit where Hancock was floundering the most under the polite questioning from the committee when he faced them last week. If Cummings hasn't got the dirt on him over that, then Cummings hasn't got anything on him of any worth.

I agree Quinny its not damning evidence as to Hancock's mistakes but it does stand alone.

If your boss thought you were totally hopeless he would sack you. You say he's out of his depth and Johnson clearly knew this too, but he let him carry on knowing the risk this carried to every single one of us. If that's not gross negligence I don't know what is.
 
Apr 15, 2004
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East Devon
themightykeithfear":2gmupw78 said:
Quinny":2gmupw78 said:
I have to side with Frank here, Keith. When Dom Cummings gave evidence to the Parliamentary committee a couple of weeks ago, he said that he had documents and evidence that Hancock was at fault and his decisions had led to avoidable deaths. That evidence hasn't been released, and if what Dom posted yesterday on his blog is his "smoking gun" then Jeremy Hunt has every right to be disappointed. That isn't evidence - it's just WhatsApp chats saying that 'X' thinks 'Y' is useless. Yes, we know he's out of his depth as Health Sec - hell, I hate it that Hancock makes Jeremy Hunt look effective when he was in that role - but those screenshots isn't evidence. Embarrassing: yes. Damning: no.

Hancock has one achilles heel in his Dept's response to the pandemic, and that was around the Govt's response to the care-homes. That was handled appallingly badly and even last year he and his Dept were trying to change the narrative around when they were "ring-fencing" the homes, and that was the bit where Hancock was floundering the most under the polite questioning from the committee when he faced them last week. If Cummings hasn't got the dirt on him over that, then Cummings hasn't got anything on him of any worth.

I agree Quinny its not damning evidence as to Hancock's mistakes but it does stand alone.

If your boss thought you were totally hopeless he would sack you. You say he's out of his depth and Johnson clearly knew this too, but he let him carry on knowing the risk this carried to every single one of us. If that's not gross negligence I don't know what is.
But then Johnson is even further out of his depth ...... and perhaps Cummings had a point when he said that Hancock was a handy head to offer up as sacrifice after any future enquiry. Ironically the "F***ing Hopeless" Hancock is safer now than ever as Boris can't be seen to be letting DC dictate cabinet reshuffles from afar. He's bullet proof for at least a couple of years I'd guess - before being moved sideways and downwards when this has all blown over.

The thing that amazes me about Johnson is that he must have enough self-awareness to know he's not exactly a "details man" (to put it politely) so if he had any sense surely he'd surround himself with people that are even if they are dull as ditch water? Then he could do all his flourishing broad-brush stuff and let the technocrats sort out the details and sweep up after him - but instead he has people like Hancock & Pritti Patel in very high profile positions regularly causing mayhem :facepalm: ....Stupidity squared.
 
Nov 15, 2011
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But Ave IT there are no details people left, he sacked them all. Decent calm intelligent Conservatives like Dominic Grieve and Ken Clarke are history, Sajid Javid was elbowed out when it was clear he wanted some autonomy and all that's left are the not too bright 100% loyal hard Brexit loons. (Gove is clever but a snake with his own personal agenda.)

There are various theories why Johnson keeps on the bunglers, ie he doesn't look so bad in comparison / how can he sack buffoons when he's the biggest buffoon of the lot / they act as deflector shields. Apparently the mood was lifted when Raab was temporarily in charge when Johnson was in hospital as he did try and and listen to some of the detail. (And Lord knows Raab isn't the brightest, he didn't even realise the importance of Dover in relation to trade with the EU.) Apparently when the scientists went into detail when Johnson was in the room he would get bored, shout "V for Victory" and run out the room.
 
Apr 15, 2004
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East Devon
Surprised nobody has commented on the ‘big Dom’ interview from a few days ago. Then again maybe that’s the thing about Dom and this government – nothing surprises us anymore. We groan or give a brief snort of amusement, and it hardly seems to matter how much is or isn’t true. Gone are the days when those in high office were expected to live and work to higher standards of responsibility & integrity …… in fact those days have gone so much that we are now mightily impressed if they ever match our own standards. “They’re all a bunch of lying, cheating, money grabbing shysters aren’t they so what do you expect?” is the general attitude.

But it is surely worrying for our democracy that the sitting Prime Minister can simply shrug off such an interview ? An interview from his closest aide for many years who was at the heart of power just a few short months ago that contains jaw-dropping accusations ? In any other era (even a decade or so ago) this would have rocked the government to its core. To put it bluntly the Prime Minister’s right-hand adviser, the man who was in the room when every major decision was taken, has accused the PM of effectively saying that we should let old people die rather than harm the economy. Just let that sink in for a moment. The government haven’t even bothered denying it – probably because Dom produced the WhatsApp message from Boris himself ……

“I must say I have been slightly rocked by some of the data on Covid fatalities. The median age is 82 to 81 for men 85 for women,” the messages read. “That is above life expectancy. So get Covid and live longer! Hardly anyone under 60 goes into hospital (four per cent) and of those virtually all survive. And I no longer buy all this NHS overwhelmed stuff. Folks I think we may need to recalibrate. There are max 3m in this country aged over 80. It shows we don’t go for nationwide lockdown.”

I find it hard to read that message without doing a BoJo impression inside my head – it just sounds so typical of the stupid, half-baked, half-understood and unwittingly callous things he comes out with. ( I usually add “Stuff of nonsense!!“ on in my head by the way).

But will it hurt him? Probably not. We must surely all know what he’s like by now. He the sort of charlatan who stands outside number ten during the pandemic clapping the NHS workers – whilst believing they are making a fuss and crying wolf then wants to give them a 1% pay rise. The sort of man that cheerfully gives a journalist’s address to a dodgy old school chum who wants to get him beaten up (Google “you’re a nasty piece of work aren’t you?” to get the Eddie Mair interview for that one ).

Maybe Dom is going to keep releasing these gems and it will be death by a thousand cuts – but I wouldn’t count on it. Hey-ho.

Rather than get angry, for a bit of very amusing black humour on the subject this is well worth a read:-
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ulls-back-the-curtain-and-declares-his-genius
 
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Reactions: Pilgrim Joe
Dec 27, 2004
739
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Bidford on Avon
Sad as he has normalised dishonesty, no morals or integrity.

Dawn Butler - never really a fan of hers was asked to leave the HoC for stating the truth - that Boris has repeatedly lied to Parliament and the British people.

Yet Boris just rolls on - lying as often as most people breathe, as does his cabinet.

Bizarre times we live in 😔