Wayne Rooney

[SWTT]

The season before Rooney took over Birmingham finished 17th on 53 points (so 1.15 points per game with Eustace as manager). The season before that they were 20th with 47 points (1.02 points per game with Lee Bowyer as manager) and the one before that they were 18th with 52 point (1.13 points per game with Karanka and Bowyer as managers). So whilst Rooney didn't do very well at Birmingham he can't really be blamed for Birmingham's woes. They have been pretty rubbish for years and the players that Rooney worked with were all in place before he got there. Birmingham might have been 6th under Eustace when he was sacked but no-one can surely think that they would have finished anywhere near that position at the end of the season. They'd only played a small number of games at the start of the season when a win or two can elevate a team's league position hugely. Okay, Rooney didn't make things better and he probably made things worse (but perhaps only temporarily so - who knows?) but he's just a convenient scapegoat for Birmingham fans on who they could lump all their disappointment and shame about their team's disappointing (or at least below expectations) performances over multiple years.

I agree with that Doc.

Wife and in-laws are Bluenoses, so I had a fairly close view of Rooney's tenure at Brum.

He seems to have learned lessons about his approach. He's far more hands on as a head coach than he was as a manager for them.

We have also been a more settled and stable club than them. Like you say, they've been treading water of relegation for the best part of a decade now. A truly destablised season toppled them in the end.

We're bang on 1ppg as things stand. 1.87ppg at home and 0.22ppg away. As a data driven club, the underlying numbers of our home performances should strike serious concern as they ultimately suggest the away form is more representative of how we're playing (bar the 5 games between Sept & Oct international breaks).

I've seen comments that the players are not up to the complexity of how Rooney is trying to play. I'd actually argue the opposite. I think tactically we are approaching the games with a far too basic game plan for the Championship.

Lowe & Schuey had League Two & League One squads playing intricate, well drilled football. Player quality meant that didn't always come off, but we looked competitive in games and it was an exciting watch more often than not (L2 > Championship).

For much of this season we have looked lost in games. Particularly on the ball for me, the stats of our low number of entries and touches in the opposition box and poor chance creation are evidence of a lack of coached patterns of play (at the very least quality ideas).

Following the Sheff Wed debacle we looked more structured and organised off the ball, but since the October international break that appears to have been in decline both home and away. We don't appear to know whether we're coming or going in the press and we are continually drawn into overload situations far too easily (hence the high oppo entries into our box and high xG against).

The performances away are getting the results they deserve. The results at home aren't sustainable if the performances continue in the manner that they are. We have individual quality and a whole heap of character to thank for not being in a significantly worse situation, I believe.

 

[greenwater]

WR, states he wants a reaction from the players at Ashton Gate.

What we do want is a reaction from him, with a sensible team selection, and a match plan and tactics.

sensible team selection when we have 10 out injured? Let us all know what your selection is with what's available

 

[greenwater]

I agree with that Doc.

Wife and in-laws are Bluenoses, so I had a fairly close view of Rooney's tenure at Brum.

He seems to have learned lessons about his approach. He's far more hands on as a head coach than he was as a manager for them.

We have also been a more settled and stable club than them. Like you say, they've been treading water of relegation for the best part of a decade now. A truly destablised season toppled them in the end.

We're bang on 1ppg as things stand. 1.87ppg at home and 0.22ppg away. As a data driven club, the underlying numbers of our home performances should strike serious concern as they ultimately suggest the away form is more representative of how we're playing (bar the 5 games between Sept & Oct international breaks).

I've seen comments that the players are not up to the complexity of how Rooney is trying to play. I'd actually argue the opposite. I think tactically we are approaching the games with a far too basic game plan for the Championship.

Lowe & Schuey had League Two & League One squads playing intricate, well drilled football. Player quality meant that didn't always come off, but we looked competitive in games and it was an exciting watch more often than not (L2 > Championship).

For much of this season we have looked lost in games. Particularly on the ball for me, the stats of our low number of entries and touches in the opposition box and poor chance creation are evidence of a lack of coached patterns of play (at the very least quality ideas).

Following the Sheff Wed debacle we looked more structured and organised off the ball, but since the October international break that appears to have been in decline both home and away. We don't appear to know whether we're coming or going in the press and we are continually drawn into overload situations far too easily (hence the high oppo entries into our box and high xG against).

The performances away are getting the results they deserve. The results at home aren't sustainable if the performances continue in the manner that they are. We have individual quality and a whole heap of character to thank for not being in a significantly worse situation, I believe.

Lowe & Schuey had League Two & League One squads playing intricate, well drilled football. Player quality meant that didn't always come off, but we looked competitive in games and it was an exciting watch more often than not (L2 > Championship).

These guys were good at a lower level. But Championship football has found them out. Both are unemployed

 

[Biggs]

I've seen comments that the players are not up to the complexity of how Rooney is trying to play. I'd actually argue the opposite. I think tactically we are approaching the games with a far too basic game plan for the Championship.

Lowe & Schuey had League Two & League One squads playing intricate, well drilled football. Player quality meant that didn't always come off, but we looked competitive in games and it was an exciting watch more often than not (L2 > Championship).

For much of this season we have looked lost in games. Particularly on the ball for me, the stats of our low number of entries and touches in the opposition box and poor chance creation are evidence of a lack of coached patterns of play (at the very least quality ideas).

Exactly my worry too. We looked miles better than this with similar level personnel in games last season, where this year players are getting the ball and having to make decisions every time. Under SS it was more telepathic because they'd worked on those patterns constantly in training.

He did say he thought modern football was too structured in his joining interview, which in hindsight is a slight worry as may point to giving players too much freedom on the ball and NOT having those drilled patterns of play. That's fine with Champions League superhumans on the same wavelength, but not for relative journeymen and up and coming players.

Having said that, I thought we were looking well coached and fluent pre (and even for the first 15 mins of) that nightmare Cardiff game, so I'm really not sure what's happened since then.

 

[GreenTom]

Exactly my worry too. We looked miles better than this with similar level personnel in games last season, where this year players are getting the ball and having to make decisions every time. Under SS it was more telepathic because they'd worked on those patterns constantly in training.

He did say he thought modern football was too structured in his joining interview, which in hindsight is a slight worry as may point to giving players too much freedom on the ball and NOT having those drilled patterns of play. That's fine with Champions League superhumans on the same wavelength, but not for relative journeymen and up and coming players.

This is exactly the problem, players just don't know who to pass to. I wonder what analysis of opposition is being done?

Its alway very well saying modern football is too structured but this this what the players are used to.

 

[The Doctor]

Lowe & Schuey had League Two & League One squads playing intricate, well drilled football. Player quality meant that didn't always come off, but we looked competitive in games and it was an exciting watch more often than not (L2 > Championship).

These guys were good at a lower level. But Championship football has found them out. Both are unemployed

Ouch!

 

[Quizmike]

There is an old saying about madness being repeating the same thing and expecting a different result.

Rooney failed at Derby
Rooney failed at DC United
Rooney failed at Birmingham

But according to some people, Rooney isn't failing at Argyle. It's all down to recruitment, or budget, or injuries, or travelling, or something. Anything but Rooney.

Of all the people who want Rooney to stay, hardly any are happy with the team, the results or the style of play. All that Rooney supporters are doing is finding excuses for him.

Think about that next time you post. Is it praise or an excuse? And if so, why are you excusing him?

 

[German Shepherd]

There is an old saying about madness being repeating the same thing and expecting a different result.

Rooney failed at Derby
Rooney failed at DC United
Rooney failed at Birmingham

But according to some people, Rooney isn't failing at Argyle. It's all down to recruitment, or budget, or injuries, or travelling, or something. Anything but Rooney.

Of all the people who want Rooney to stay, hardly any are happy with the team, the results or the style of play. All that Rooney supporters are doing is finding excuses for him.

Think about that next time you post. Is it praise or an excuse? And if so, why are you excusing him?

Did he really fail at Derby or did Derby fail him

 

[Brummie In Peace]

Was this written by AI?

I'm sure your post contains some good points and is probably a good summing up of where we find ourselves but the constant picking at the way he speaks and looks is unnecessary.

Sadly not, I am real. I guess I did go a bit far with the name calling and the erms. I have my reasons for not liking him OTHER than the relegation thing. I’ve sort of alluded to it in the post and I think eventually it will come out just how badly Wayne’s party culture effected the club and certain players.

I do apologise to Wayne for that but I do not regard him as a good man.

Oh and yes, I am jay stansfield.

 

[Brummie In Peace]

Did he really fail at Derby or did Derby fail him

I’ve spoken to people at Derby including a coach who was there. Wayne was pretty much a frontman and admitted that most of the work was done by the coaches whilst Rooney was getting to grips with things.

Ashley Cole was there and I think one day will make a great manager. Really knows his stuff.

 

[Martyn]

Did he really fail at Derby or did Derby fail him

Another excuse

 

[JannerinCardiff]

There is an old saying about madness being repeating the same thing and expecting a different result.

Rooney failed at Derby
Rooney failed at DC United
Rooney failed at Birmingham

But according to some people, Rooney isn't failing at Argyle. It's all down to recruitment, or budget, or injuries, or travelling, or something. Anything but Rooney.

Of all the people who want Rooney to stay, hardly any are happy with the team, the results or the style of play. All that Rooney supporters are doing is finding excuses for him.

Think about that next time you post. Is it praise or an excuse? And if so, why are you excusing him?

Rooney didn't fail at Derby.

He was also given a decent welcome at pride park, certainly not someone regarded as a failure there.

 

[Brummie In Peace]

We have also been a more settled and stable club than them. Like you say, they've been treading water of relegation for the best part of a decade now. A truly destablised season toppled them in the end.

One last thing before I catch me train.

The only reason our season was destabilised was Rooney. The players were all happy and motivated for the first time in years (pathetic I know). Even when Wayne came in and eustace was sacked the players really wanted to make it work.

Eustace was a great guy but our owners are extremely optimistic with the future. We are the 3rd biggest inward investment in the UK, purchased the land to create the biggest sports quarter in the UK, 60k stadium, 6th biggest revenue outside of ‘top 6’ ETC. sadly Eustace didn’t fit that bill.

neither did Rooney obviously but he was quickly dismissed then poor Mowbray being struck with cancer really hurt the entire club, just after some of the best football I’ve seen down St Andrews. You’d be extremely lucky but now he’s recovering he would be the man to take you forward. Proper, proper bloke. I know he’s boring but even Rowett would keep you up if you got him in now.

For the record, Wayne didn’t relegate us but he was the biggest factor.

 

[999mattyg]

Everyone knows the jump between academy to 1st team championship football is huge, even with a top notch academy it’s still unbelievable hard, the percentage that actually make it is minuscule… so why have we spent all our money on trying to grow home grown talent. We haven’t got all the money in the world so surely it would have been better to invest 15 million in finding hidden gems across to world who have already established them selves in the game at men’s level who we have more of a chance of selling for 4/5x what we paid for them

Because you have to build the infrastructure at some point!

 

[999mattyg]

I feel very sorry for Rooney. Prior to our horrible injury woes, we looked like a decent enough team. Certainly not a team that could push any higher than mid table, but a team that could finish somewhere between 21st and 14th. For most of us that would be perfectly acceptable. An achievement in fact.

However, our main creative threat (Cissoko) who was having an excellent season gets injured, our captain, leader, motivator and engine gets injured, our best CB gets injured, our other championship quality CB gets injured, and finally last night our playmaker who is having a difficult season, but is always likely to pop up with a crucial goal (and has a few times this season) gets injured.

It's okay saying, well, we should regroup, change tactics and just play for a point, but how many other managers would realistically be able to deal with that injury list. Don't get me wrong, last night was embarrassing and we have a right to be angry with that showing, but I still think we should cut WR some slack and show him that the GA is behind him and we are in this together. Last night I was actually fuming and turned off after goal number 5, but in the cold light of day I just feel that our luck has been blimmin' awful and kneejerk reactions probably aren't the way forward.

In addition, what makes me angrier than our bad luck or poor performances is the fact that this season is once again a really depressing reminder of just how much money is ruining the game. We can't compete with most other teams in this league financially, and it is just sad that money is so decisive in the modern game. I'd still much rather the club be financially solvent and playing Shrewsbury away than gambling and risking the long-term future of the club for an away day at Elland Road.

Up the Argyle!

Interesting! After the opening game of the season I had us as dead certs for relegation!