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The reasons why Rooney shouldn't go?
- Thread starter MGM
- Start date
I think we give him December to turn it round, and I think we need a minimum 10 points from the 6 games. Bearing in mind this includes Sheff Utd away and Middlesborough at home. So its a tough ask but this bad run of aways has to stop and we must get at least 3 points from the away games in December
I think the key problem showing at the moment is the squad needs bolstering in January and we need outside investment. I struggle to see how any other manager would be getting much different from the available team.
Massive game on Saturday - Please please lets get behind him and the team. I fully agree if the next few games go against us, then quite rightly the situation needs a further review.
I think the key problem showing at the moment is the squad needs bolstering in January and we need outside investment. I struggle to see how any other manager would be getting much different from the available team.
Massive game on Saturday - Please please lets get behind him and the team. I fully agree if the next few games go against us, then quite rightly the situation needs a further review.
Rooney's at least being truthful about the performances not being good enough for the Championship. Some managers wouldn't say this despite it being true. The truth is we aren't smart enough for the Championship on the funds available and as others have said without investement no manager can get the club much higher in the league. Schumacher foresaw this issue and chose to a risk it at Stoke as he felt he could further his career. I believe the main reason for sticking with Rooney is he can get better as a coach and really wants it to work at Argyle. However, somehow we need to find funds to recruit championship quality players in several positions and soon. Several of the current players are way off the standard and no manager could make them ready for the Championship. The injuries have really hit us hard.
I believe we’re still punching above our weight. By rights we should be bottom of the league with our budget and players. It’s actually a minor miracle and credit to Rooney that we’re not in the relegation zone. If he keeps us up and brings on Issac and Roberts it will be a very successful season. I don’t see any other realistic manager doing a better job.
Easy to blame the manager, coaches, recruitment team, owner, tea lady or kit man when we lose away to a clubs with significantly higher budgets and squads full of proven Championship/Premiership players. Hallett invested so much in Argyle, financially and emotionally. I'm inclined to trust him and the board when they say that Rooney was/is our best option. He is clearly passionate about football, he has a huge reputation in football and he has a point to prove on his managerial ability. He was brave to take us on as more experienced managers (and Schuey) weren't up for the challenge. Too much of a risk to their reputation, or too difficult to keep us up with such a low budget, small squad and lack of experienced players with the required physicality? (some teams tower over us, their bigger, stronger and more championship savy players brush us aside).
Our target is to stay out of the relegation zone, job done so far? If we continue to get behind the team at Home Park, and out-perform our relegation rivals, then it will be another successful (survival) season.
Our target is to stay out of the relegation zone, job done so far? If we continue to get behind the team at Home Park, and out-perform our relegation rivals, then it will be another successful (survival) season.
I think it’s a weird misconception by fans that they think they are smarter. I think it’s more that we are at a disadvantage to other clubs so doing exactly the same as them means we will finish behind them. That means taking gambles and trying different things. We could get a standard conveyor belt championship manager like Rowett but that just means we will finish behind all the other run of the mill championship managers. I wish they could release the names of who applied last time because I reckon it would shock fans who think we have a chance of the likes of Robins.
Our recent results are terrible and it's clear that away from home we can't compete in our current state. It's been a real bummer with injuries for a squad that doesn't have much depth. I am hoping that our home form and a draw away every now and then will keep us from going adrift at the bottom. I would like to think that WR can steer us away to 19th or 18th once we have players back and a good transfer window. Let's remember. When you're at the bottom, the only way is up. If by the end of January, we are 6 points or more from safety, then make some decisions, but not until then.
While I get the point re appointing a standard conveyor belt manager appointing someone with no or little English league experience or with no real management success is a huge risk . In reality we would be better off looking at successful managers at L1 / L2 / Nat League level .
This is why l feel this whole situation is bigger than Rooney.
In 2019, on 27th July Ryan Lowe said the following….
“Overall, I’m happy – the shape and everything else was fantastic,” said Lowe after his side lost to Sky Bet League One opponents Bristol Rovers by a single goal. “I said to the lads, if you want to play in my team, you’ve got to be brave on the ball and do what I ask you to do – and they’re doing it.
The report on the match in the same article said the following.
"Despite their progress, Argyle were the architects of their own downfall against the Gas, with some defensive dalliance in possession ultimately leading to the only goal of the game. Lowe, though, is not willing to place the blame solely at the feet of Ben Hall, whose untimely slip allowed Kyle Bennett to race away and lay on an unmissable chance for goalscorer Victor Adeboyejo."
Near the end of the Steven Schumacher reign 9th December 2023 before we play Leicester City away
footballleagueworld.co.uk
“We know we're up against it, but if you're not brave, if you're not positive, if you don't get on the front foot, then we won't get anything from it, so that'll be our best way and hopefully we can implement that."
“But as Schumacher says, that isn't Plymouth's style and they may as well be attacking today to try and get something from the game.”
“Sitting back will give them little chance of winning three points, so they need to be brave and come forward with the ball themselves.”
Argyle went on to lose this game convincingly playing in the manner Schumacher described he was going to attempt to play.
What has this got to do with Rooney? Everything. For five years the message has been to the players, be postive, be brave on the ball.
These players were getting away with defensive mistakes because the message was to take calculated risks. Now imagine after five years hearing that message throughout the club. You eventually find that message defines the way you play, both home & away.
You only have to look at ‘Pleggy’ at Norwich in the first 15 mins doing a ‘Cruyff turn’ in order to run it out from the back. He ended up losing the ball just outside his own penalty box. You watch Randell today, just before Bristol City hit the crossbar and then score. He is trying to run it out of his own box and ends up losing possession about 30 yards out.
Two examples of players who have been here & being instilled to take risks. They are NOT calculated risks though. They are brain numbingly stupid.
This isn't about making excuses for Rooney. He has to share some of the blame. Yet as fans when we were looking at how we overturned our mistakes often in games for wins we basically had the mindset it is OK to play out from defensive this way. It's OK, to dismiss the basics standards of defending because our mindset is that we are being postive with the ball.
Dare l say that we weren't being postive with the ball, we were being naive & rather stupid. Now because we don't have the firepower or ammunition to cover these repetive mistakes against much higher calibre teams we are looking at the coach thinking what the hell is going on.
However, when Cooper was saving our backsides, or Mansfield in league two were missing guilt edge chances by our failings to play out from the back, or Argyle getting thumped against Charlton, Peterborough, Grimsby, Bolton, Barnsley etc.... we never raised an eye brow to the way we played. The way we gave away the ball carelessly. The way we let teams create chances we ease. We just moved on to the next game & said "let's continue to be brave on the ball" without once accepting the consequences of our actions.
Twelve months on, we are wondering what the hell is going on. It's five years of a club philosophy that may of got us to the Championship on some wonderful, attacking football but it's never taken responsibility for the complete shambles we have seen on numerous occasions by playing out from the back & not defending with any common sense.
You honestly think any coach who comes into this football club isn't going to struggle when players aren't taking responsibility for their actions defensively. Where has been the punishment for these players actions?
The message from the start of Lowe era to the end of the Schumacher one was, don't worry, you were at least brave on the ball. No wonder we have been a pathetic, defensive shambles.
Now people want Schumacher back. Don't people see, he is part of the reason we are in this mess as he couldn't sort us out defensively.
In 2019, on 27th July Ryan Lowe said the following….
“Overall, I’m happy – the shape and everything else was fantastic,” said Lowe after his side lost to Sky Bet League One opponents Bristol Rovers by a single goal. “I said to the lads, if you want to play in my team, you’ve got to be brave on the ball and do what I ask you to do – and they’re doing it.
The report on the match in the same article said the following.
"Despite their progress, Argyle were the architects of their own downfall against the Gas, with some defensive dalliance in possession ultimately leading to the only goal of the game. Lowe, though, is not willing to place the blame solely at the feet of Ben Hall, whose untimely slip allowed Kyle Bennett to race away and lay on an unmissable chance for goalscorer Victor Adeboyejo."
Near the end of the Steven Schumacher reign 9th December 2023 before we play Leicester City away
Steven Schumacher reveals what Plymouth Argyle won't do against Leicester City
Schumacher has revealed how his side will approach the game at the King Power Stadium.
footballleagueworld.co.uk
“We know we're up against it, but if you're not brave, if you're not positive, if you don't get on the front foot, then we won't get anything from it, so that'll be our best way and hopefully we can implement that."
“But as Schumacher says, that isn't Plymouth's style and they may as well be attacking today to try and get something from the game.”
“Sitting back will give them little chance of winning three points, so they need to be brave and come forward with the ball themselves.”
Argyle went on to lose this game convincingly playing in the manner Schumacher described he was going to attempt to play.
What has this got to do with Rooney? Everything. For five years the message has been to the players, be postive, be brave on the ball.
These players were getting away with defensive mistakes because the message was to take calculated risks. Now imagine after five years hearing that message throughout the club. You eventually find that message defines the way you play, both home & away.
You only have to look at ‘Pleggy’ at Norwich in the first 15 mins doing a ‘Cruyff turn’ in order to run it out from the back. He ended up losing the ball just outside his own penalty box. You watch Randell today, just before Bristol City hit the crossbar and then score. He is trying to run it out of his own box and ends up losing possession about 30 yards out.
Two examples of players who have been here & being instilled to take risks. They are NOT calculated risks though. They are brain numbingly stupid.
This isn't about making excuses for Rooney. He has to share some of the blame. Yet as fans when we were looking at how we overturned our mistakes often in games for wins we basically had the mindset it is OK to play out from defensive this way. It's OK, to dismiss the basics standards of defending because our mindset is that we are being postive with the ball.
Dare l say that we weren't being postive with the ball, we were being naive & rather stupid. Now because we don't have the firepower or ammunition to cover these repetive mistakes against much higher calibre teams we are looking at the coach thinking what the hell is going on.
However, when Cooper was saving our backsides, or Mansfield in league two were missing guilt edge chances by our failings to play out from the back, or Argyle getting thumped against Charlton, Peterborough, Grimsby, Bolton, Barnsley etc.... we never raised an eye brow to the way we played. The way we gave away the ball carelessly. The way we let teams create chances we ease. We just moved on to the next game & said "let's continue to be brave on the ball" without once accepting the consequences of our actions.
Twelve months on, we are wondering what the hell is going on. It's five years of a club philosophy that may of got us to the Championship on some wonderful, attacking football but it's never taken responsibility for the complete shambles we have seen on numerous occasions by playing out from the back & not defending with any common sense.
You honestly think any coach who comes into this football club isn't going to struggle when players aren't taking responsibility for their actions defensively. Where has been the punishment for these players actions?
The message from the start of Lowe era to the end of the Schumacher one was, don't worry, you were at least brave on the ball. No wonder we have been a pathetic, defensive shambles.
Now people want Schumacher back. Don't people see, he is part of the reason we are in this mess as he couldn't sort us out defensively.
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I'd get Tony Pulis in on a consultancy basis to give some defensive coaching.
I’d give Hazard a games and Grimmy a break , agree with a defensive coach with experience too. Keep the shape simple for the players , go back to a standard 4-4-2 perhaps.
They need support as a group ( coaching and playing ) rather than any toxic fan stuff particularly at HP.
They need support as a group ( coaching and playing ) rather than any toxic fan stuff particularly at HP.
In defence of Rooney (not defending his washing of dirty
linen in public; I think that should stay in the dressing room), his options
in defence for yesterday's game were Gibson, Pleguezuelo, Ogbeta, Palsson,
Sorinola, and Mumba. Of those, only Gibson and Mumba are Championship standard
(with Mumba being better employed elsewhere on the pitch), while
Ogbeta and Palsson are League Two at best.
On the rest of the pitch, only Randell, Forshaw (on yesterday's showing and for the
first time) and Gray could genuinely be said to be Championship standard. A grand
total of 5 options of the required level.
We did play good football earlier in the season, with almost a full squad available.
We convincingly beat some decent teams at home, and with the exception of opening
day, the defeats at high-flying teams were narrow. Can we give Rooney credit for this,
and assume that we can return to that standard with the return of the injured players and
some adequate reinforcements ? I would like to believe that we can.
I have to admit, though, that Rooney's recruitment of Palsson is a mystery. I can only
assume that he has gone rapidly downhill since his American days, because Rooney can
surely not be that bad of a judge.
linen in public; I think that should stay in the dressing room), his options
in defence for yesterday's game were Gibson, Pleguezuelo, Ogbeta, Palsson,
Sorinola, and Mumba. Of those, only Gibson and Mumba are Championship standard
(with Mumba being better employed elsewhere on the pitch), while
Ogbeta and Palsson are League Two at best.
On the rest of the pitch, only Randell, Forshaw (on yesterday's showing and for the
first time) and Gray could genuinely be said to be Championship standard. A grand
total of 5 options of the required level.
We did play good football earlier in the season, with almost a full squad available.
We convincingly beat some decent teams at home, and with the exception of opening
day, the defeats at high-flying teams were narrow. Can we give Rooney credit for this,
and assume that we can return to that standard with the return of the injured players and
some adequate reinforcements ? I would like to believe that we can.
I have to admit, though, that Rooney's recruitment of Palsson is a mystery. I can only
assume that he has gone rapidly downhill since his American days, because Rooney can
surely not be that bad of a judge.
It was only September when Rooney was nominated for manager of the month for the way he was getting us playing pre injury crisis.
Imagine the difference if Cissoko hadn’t been sent off and subsequently injured, if Joe had been a regular to galvanise us on the pitch in some of the recent games and if Gibbo hadn’t got injured.
We’d likely have a few more points and be up towards mid table.
Margins are slim in the Championship and just one or two of the recent events could’ve rocked us but we’ve been bombarded with unfortunate situations.
Imagine the difference if Cissoko hadn’t been sent off and subsequently injured, if Joe had been a regular to galvanise us on the pitch in some of the recent games and if Gibbo hadn’t got injured.
We’d likely have a few more points and be up towards mid table.
Margins are slim in the Championship and just one or two of the recent events could’ve rocked us but we’ve been bombarded with unfortunate situations.