Tavistock v Argyle

[The Doctor]

I thought James Sharpe came across very well in his post-match interview on Argyle TV.

 

[PL2 3DQ]

 

[monkeywrench]

Couple of great strikes although Sharpe said his was a mishit. Looks a big lad.

 

[Andy S]

The 2nd and 4th goals were pearlers. Didn’t look particularly misfit.

Many, many years since I was at Langsford Park. Hasn’t changed too much. Nice little compact ground.

 

[Lobster]

Some of the current first and second year scholars (16 and 17-year olds) look the best we have had for a while and I hope they are able to feature in future Carabao, Vertue and obviously u-21 cup games or even make the bench for League games.

You see them much more often than I do Graham so are in a far better place to judge, but I swear we hear this sort of comment almost every year. Until we have a proper pathway between the youth and the first team, it doesn’t make a difference how good they are at age group level.

 

[pafcdje]

You see them much more often than I do Graham so are in a far better place to judge, but I swear we hear this sort of comment almost every year. Until we have a proper pathway between the youth and the first team, it doesn’t make a difference how good they are at age group level.

Although this cohort seem to have more promise than last year: McCormick, Hayman, Mwaro, Rendle.

Sharpe is the following year .

 

[Gaz Bowman]

Please feel free to pass on any constructive feedback to our volunteer groundstaff.

A great evening for the club. Big thanks to all who attended and made it happen! I believe the attendance was just shy of 1500.

Andy Bowker was a work colleague of mine and it was good to see his son, Jacob, get on the scoresheet last night.

 

[Graham Clark]

You see them much more often than I do Graham so are in a far better place to judge, but I swear we hear this sort of comment almost every year. Until we have a proper pathway between the youth and the first team, it doesn’t make a difference how good they are at age group level.

Derek Adams said at SeniorvGreens that there is no chance of a u-21 side until 8 or 9 of the qualifying players are considered to be capable of playing first team football. Then it might be worth the cost. Being in the Premier u-21 Cup this season (if we qualify) will help as well as the Vertue Trophy. In addition, the EFL rules require at least one Academy local developed player (for three seasons) to be named on the bench for each League game.

Tegan Finn has played 23 games as a 16 and 17-year old under Tom so he is willing to put them in the team if they are good enough. Adam Randell had to wait until he was 20 and 21 to made a similar number of appearances.

In summary, I think we have a clearer pathway for young players to make an impact ifn the first team but more importantly we have a Team Coach who values the development of our younger players. It is, after all, one of the pillars of our progress towards becoming a sustainable club. If two or three of our scholars make it into the first team on a regular basis then Tom's approach will be deemed a success. Based on what I have seen I would say there is every chance.

 

[jimsing]

Derek Adams said at SeniorvGreens that there is no chance of a u-21 side until 8 or 9 of the qualifying players are considered to be capable of playing first team football. Then it might be worth the cost. Being in the Premier u-21 Cup this season (if we qualify) will help as well as the Vertue Trophy. In addition, the EFL rules require at least one Academy local developed player (for three seasons) to be named on the bench for each League game.

Tegan Finn has played 23 games as a 16 and 17-year old under Tom so he is willing to put them in the team if they are good enough. Adam Randell had to wait until he was 20 and 21 to made a similar number of appearances.

In summary, I think we have a clearer pathway for young players to make an impact ifn the first team but more importantly we have a Team Coach who values the development of our younger players. It is, after all, one of the pillars of our progress towards becoming a sustainable club. If two or three of our scholars make it into the first team on a regular basis then Tom's approach will be deemed a success. Based on what I have seen I would say there is every chance.

Usually a manager would not be interested in anything to do with the youth players, (unless there would be an exceptional player involved), as their contracts are for a short period of three or four years only, and their reputation is based on getting the best out of the first team, rather than worry about the future of any youth players.

Does that also suggest that Tom would be interested in staying at Argyle, all things being equal, to see the fruits of his labour and to be in a position to use them when they become of age?

 

[Lobster]

Derek Adams said at SeniorvGreens that there is no chance of a u-21 side until 8 or 9 of the qualifying players are considered to be capable of playing first team football. Then it might be worth the cost. Being in the Premier u-21 Cup this season (if we qualify) will help as well as the Vertue Trophy. In addition, the EFL rules require at least one Academy local developed player (for three seasons) to be named on the bench for each League game.

Tegan Finn has played 23 games as a 16 and 17-year old under Tom so he is willing to put them in the team if they are good enough. Adam Randell had to wait until he was 20 and 21 to made a similar number of appearances.

In summary, I think we have a clearer pathway for young players to make an impact ifn the first team but more importantly we have a Team Coach who values the development of our younger players. It is, after all, one of the pillars of our progress towards becoming a sustainable club. If two or three of our scholars make it into the first team on a regular basis then Tom's approach will be deemed a success. Based on what I have seen I would say there is every chance.

Thanks for your detailed reply, Graham. You are clearly more positively minded than I am on this subject, but I still think that’s miles off what these lads need.

Add together the U21 cup and Vertu and it’s max 18 games (or thereabouts), maybe as few as 9, and if we don’t qualify for the cup then even fewer. Having seen the (lack of) progress of Issaka and Roberts, and to a lesser extent Finn, sporadic first team games are not enough, as good as Tom Cleverley’s intentions may be.

IMO as soon as these lads are 17 they need to be playing U21 or men’s football. It doesn’t matter where, either geographically or level wise, but they need somewhere to do their growing up that we are currently not providing them.

I also think we may have an issue in the academy judging talent. Look at the other two lads who turned pro two years ago - Bernard Matthews. They did have loans at lower levels but didn’t stand out. It may be harsh, but did these lads ever really have what it takes to make it at L1/Champ level? I don’t know, but if not, why were they ever on pro terms? It’s easy to spot the Coopers, Finns, and McCormicks. Less easy to spot the Randells (who I believe was nearly released at one point).

I agree that two or three first teamers on a regular basis would be a very good return. I’d settle for one or two every few years. But we haven’t had any that have established themselves since Cooper and Randell who graduated, what, 7 years ago?

Right now we have Issaka, Roberts, Finn, and Campbell on pro terms, with McCormick, Hayman, Mwaro, Rendle following behind. How many of those do people in the know really think will be here in say three years time? Personally, based on our recent success rate, I’d be amazed if it’s more than one or two.

 

[pafcdje]

Thanks for your detailed reply, Graham. You are clearly more positively minded than I am on this subject, but I still think that’s miles off what these lads need.

Add together the U21 cup and Vertu and it’s max 18 games (or thereabouts), maybe as few as 9, and if we don’t qualify for the cup then even fewer. Having seen the (lack of) progress of Issaka and Roberts, and to a lesser extent Finn, sporadic first team games are not enough, as good as Tom Cleverley’s intentions may be.

IMO as soon as these lads are 17 they need to be playing U21 or men’s football. It doesn’t matter where, either geographically or level wise, but they need somewhere to do their growing up that we are currently not providing them.

I also think we may have an issue in the academy judging talent. Look at the other two lads who turned pro two years ago - Bernard Matthews. They did have loans at lower levels but didn’t stand out. It may be harsh, but did these lads ever really have what it takes to make it at L1/Champ level? I don’t know, but if not, why were they ever on pro terms? It’s easy to spot the Coopers, Finns, and McCormicks. Less easy to spot the Randells (who I believe was nearly released at one point).

I agree that two or three first teamers on a regular basis would be a very good return. I’d settle for one or two every few years. But we haven’t had any that have established themselves since Cooper and Randell who graduated, what, 7 years ago?

Right now we have Issaka, Roberts, Finn, and Campbell on pro terms, with McCormick, Hayman, Mwaro, Rendle following behind. How many of those do people in the know really think will be here in say three years time? Personally, based on our recent success rate, I’d be amazed if it’s more than one or two.

You're right but I think that some of the current under18s stand a decent chance .Derek said the club would need a minimum of 9/10 to justify an under 21 team .We're not there yet but if 4/5 get offered this year. It's clearly a hot topic at present because Cleverley keeps mentioning it .Whether we can afford it is a different question .

 

[unhinched]

I also think we may have an issue in the academy judging talent. Look at the other two lads who turned pro two years ago - Bernard Matthews. They did have loans at lower levels but didn’t stand out. It may be harsh, but did these lads ever really have what it takes to make it at L1/Champ level? I don’t know, but if not, why were they ever on pro terms? It’s easy to spot the Coopers, Finns, and McCormicks. Less easy to spot the Randells (who I believe was nearly released at one point).

There are pathway problems for sure. VERY few players get mature enough before 21 or 22. So what happens in the mean time ? Only really National League loans etc. as most players will rise a couple leagues from where they are at , say, 19. If you can play National League well at 18 or 19, you are very good.
Interesting you mention Mathews. He's just signed for National League South Truro (along with Lewis Colwell who captained the u18's a couple years back). Harry Shield, released at the end of last year, has just been signed by Torquay, as has Zak Baker of course. IF they were still at Argyle I'm sure Argyle would be arranging similar loans. We'll see how they go from there.
Personally, while there are some decent prospects again, I'm not sure that the pattern of recent years will change much if at all.
Just as players change hugely between , say, 13 and 16 I think we underestimate how that process continues right up to 22. As in you can look average at 13 and great at 16, or great at 17/18 and not push on much from there.
It's why Abdul Abdulmalik was released by Millwall to non-league, to now be worth 1million plus in the National League ; yet the same Millwall took a punt on Alex Mitchell at 17 when no other club had signed him as a kid.
Tom Cleverley was surrounded ( in his own words) by a number of more talented players at u18's at United ( Ravel Morrisson a prime example) yet he was one who managed to get a career, while others fell away.