Squad comparison to last season = sadly board's fault (merged)

[Mazza26]

Let's bring my original thread back again but create a new one because as always my input gets lost in the midst of fog and rain... whilst so-called experts blame everyone and everything, they struggle to work out that it's not JUST one thing to blame. Not to say i'm some sort of Guru, far from it, i'm a fairly average person but I do get annoyed when people over analyse stuff, live In the past (Schumacher and Dewsnip for example, in different times and situations) yet just blame one person for our slight (only slight) demise. I'm annoyed to be proven right. Deary deary me... the loan market is fine to add flourish but when it's to make up a team it's an accident waiting to happen. That said whilst the board / scouts / directors are totally to blame for this mess (see below for my very basic analysis) I do sympathise with them. They had done a great job up to around January 2023. We can't afford to make many mistakes, especially in this league, sadly there are clubs that have far more manoever for mistakes...

I'm going to do a comparison to last season's squad to really make it very very simple for posters. I'm not sure why there are 116 threads not only on pasoti but on twitter as to why we are in a bit of a pickle, and of course the consensus is Foster to blame (laughable assumption), and that we aren't playing attacking football anymore Comical stuff. Even my 7 year old girls understand the basics... So just to re-itterate for the umpteenth time:

Keepers:
We are +1 better... with Hazard

Defenders:
Pleggy / Gibson are better than Wilson / Lonwijk. Not by a million miles but anyway...
So let's give it a +1 compared to last season (including Phillips)

Wing Backs:
Sorinola / Sousa
Probably better than Conor Grant and Gillesphey
So let's give our wing backs +1 (although both of those ex players were versatile, plus we tend to play Mumba and Miller anyway as first choice, both players from last season. BUT i'll give that position a +1 anyway. I'm very generous.

Central Midfield
mmmmm (remember that Everton loanie... ok let's not) So we have injury prone Forshaw for lets say Butcher.... just about a +1 (Butcher currently Wycombe's best player at the moment) otherwise who was the Matete replacement.... mmmm can't think of one... possibly Gyabi but he's back to Leeds... so that's back to a zero for midfield. Not improved AT ALL since the champ days! Deary me.

Attacking Midfielders:
We had Azaz last season.... Callum Wright League 1 was a far better player than C.Wright champ but let's not complicate things....I won't deduct points for that. Devine let's say is Azaz's replacement, perhaps the only "new" player we can blame on Foster. What about Mayor's replacement? Nothing. Never seen him apart from Cundle under Schuey perhaps??? Tyriek Wright a Jan 2023 signing back on loan to Bradford.
So overall we are now -2 for this position compared to last season. Arguably in fact -3 because Azaz was such an important cog to our team. There is an article about how important he was for us. Let's bear in mind that along with Whittaker and Hardie he was our main player along with Cundle in terms of assists, goals and creating chances. Also you can't rely solely on two players for the rest of a campaign, however good the are.

Strikers:
Nothing new in this department for over a year and a half (apart from a youngster called Ben Waine) ... plus more worryingly Ennis and Cosgrove aren't with us anymore. (before people post about those guys not being good enough for us i'm talking about replacing them with better players not with the same guys!!!)

So that's -2. Let's add Bundu in there, even though he isn't a striker at all. So back to -1

So taking everything into account (and i've been very generous to this season's squad...) we are on ZERO DIFFERENCE. So basically the same standard squad to last season although with our main cog Azaz missing i'd argue we are even worse. Deary deary me. Basic rule of any season. Improve the squad, and if we are promoted especially to a league that is far far better than the one we were in then we need to improve the team dramatically. Bearing in mind whilst we somehow achieved over 100 points last campaign we weren't exceptional by any means. About 4 atrocious performances/results AND a lot of our success was down to the squad depth and substitutions. I actually think that winning the league with over 100 points (excellent achievement of course) counted agaisnt us. Fans (and board perhaps) thinking we could just turn up in this league and easily achieve survival. I was worried from last summer when we didn't improve our attacking options, although fair play to the board for bringing in Mumba and Whittaker.

So the overall result is that IF people want to blame anyone it's certainly not foster. The squad isn't any better than last season / being optimistic it's ever so slightly better with Roberts / Freddie available and having hopefully improved.

 

[Dazzy3000]

Mods can this be merged with the other threads?

😂 only joking Mazza

 

[GreenEden]

So where does Whitaker fit into the scoring as whilst he's mentioned there doesn't seem to be a score for him regarding attacking midfield or striker he wasn't with us after January so he surely must at least be a mayor replacement or equal
And how or why is this the boards fault I'm pretty certain the board don't go into football manager planning signings I would say this is more a targets being missed issue or players targeted being clearly not interested or within budget

 

[Railway sleeper]

Let's bring my original thread back again but create a new one because as always my input gets lost in the midst of fog and rain... whilst so-called experts blame everyone and everything, they struggle to work out that it's not JUST one thing to blame. Not to say i'm some sort of Guru, far from it, i'm a fairly average person but I do get annoyed when people over analyse stuff, live In the past (Schumacher and Dewsnip for example, in different times and situations) yet just blame one person for our slight (only slight) demise. I'm annoyed to be proven right. Deary deary me... the loan market is fine to add flourish but when it's to make up a team it's an accident waiting to happen. That said whilst the board / scouts / directors are totally to blame for this mess (see below for my very basic analysis) I do sympathise with them. They had done a great job up to around January 2023. We can't afford to make many mistakes, especially in this league, sadly there are clubs that have far more manoever for mistakes...

I'm going to do a comparison to last season's squad to really make it very very simple for posters. I'm not sure why there are 116 threads not only on pasoti but on twitter as to why we are in a bit of a pickle, and of course the consensus is Foster to blame (laughable assumption), and that we aren't playing attacking football anymore Comical stuff. Even my 7 year old girls understand the basics... So just to re-itterate for the umpteenth time:

Keepers:
We are +1 better... with Hazard

Defenders:
Pleggy / Gibson are better than Wilson / Lonwijk. Not by a million miles but anyway...
So let's give it a +1 compared to last season (including Phillips)

Wing Backs:
Sorinola / Sousa
Probably better than Conor Grant and Gillesphey
So let's give our wing backs +1 (although both of those ex players were versatile, plus we tend to play Mumba and Miller anyway as first choice, both players from last season. BUT i'll give that position a +1 anyway. I'm very generous.

Central Midfield
mmmmm (remember that Everton loanie... ok let's not) So we have injury prone Forshaw for lets say Butcher.... just about a +1 (Butcher currently Wycombe's best player at the moment) otherwise who was the Matete replacement.... mmmm can't think of one... possibly Gyabi but he's back to Leeds... so that's back to a zero for midfield. Not improved AT ALL since the champ days! Deary me.

Attacking Midfielders:
We had Azaz last season.... Callum Wright League 1 was a far better player than C.Wright champ but let's not complicate things....I won't deduct points for that. Devine let's say is Azaz's replacement, perhaps the only "new" player we can blame on Foster. What about Mayor's replacement? Nothing. Never seen him apart from Cundle under Schuey perhaps??? Tyriek Wright a Jan 2023 signing back on loan to Bradford.
So overall we are now -2 for this position compared to last season. Arguably in fact -3 because Azaz was such an important cog to our team. There is an article about how important he was for us. Let's bear in mind that along with Whittaker and Hardie he was our main player along with Cundle in terms of assists, goals and creating chances. Also you can't rely solely on two players for the rest of a campaign, however good the are.

Strikers:
Nothing new in this department for over a year and a half (apart from a youngster called Ben Waine) ... plus more worryingly Ennis and Cosgrove aren't with us anymore. (before people post about those guys not being good enough for us i'm talking about replacing them with better players not with the same guys!!!)

So that's -2. Let's add Bundu in there, even though he isn't a striker at all. So back to -1

So taking everything into account (and i've been very generous to this season's squad...) we are on ZERO DIFFERENCE. So basically the same standard squad to last season although with our main cog Azaz missing i'd argue we are even worse. Deary deary me. Basic rule of any season. Improve the squad, and if we are promoted especially to a league that is far far better than the one we were in then we need to improve the team dramatically. Bearing in mind whilst we somehow achieved over 100 points last campaign we weren't exceptional by any means. About 4 atrocious performances/results AND a lot of our success was down to the squad depth and substitutions. I actually think that winning the league with over 100 points (excellent achievement of course) counted agaisnt us. Fans (and board perhaps) thinking we could just turn up in this league and easily achieve survival. I was worried from last summer when we didn't improve our attacking options, although fair play to the board for bringing in Mumba and Whittaker.

So the overall result is that IF people want to blame anyone it's certainly not foster. The squad isn't any better than last season / being optimistic it's ever so slightly better with Roberts / Freddie available and having hopefully improved.

In hindsight we set off very light, with our attacking options.Difficult for the board, with the imperative to stay within budget.

Then again you cant keep the manager out of this- it is a key appointment- the key appointment.

A good manager will always get more out of any set of players than an average or poor one.

The art of management is to produce synergies.in other words 1+1=3. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

I do feel sorry for ian foster- who is probably a good football man.Is he a manager? From the endless meetings about our opponents it seems to me that he is a defensive coach...

 

[Guiri Green]

Today, I will mostly be blaming.....

Minus points for apportioning blame without recognising you have no idea which players the Board and recruitment team identified / approached versus those that didn't want to come all the way down here.

More minus points for the same as above but failing to acknowledge that the January transfer window for loanees was possibly affected by parent Clubs not to keen to send their best loans out to a Club that was in a state of flux and undergoing structural change having recently lost it's mainstay manager with the background team that made us such a good destination for youngsters to improve.

Minus points for not acknowledging that we had zero idea of the budget available after the expense of Muma and Whittaker.

Other than that, it's refreshing to see someone else not blaming absolutely everything on Foster. Give it an hour and it'll be his fault it's been snowing in the SW in the last 24 Hours.

 

[truejanner]

I blame Foster for the poo football and that’s it. Everything else I believe is down to us not being wealthy enough in any way, we can’t buy championship players, can’t pay championship players wages, can’t generate enough income on match days or any other days to become a regular championship team.SH has been great but is out of his depth in the championship and League 1 looks like are level as a club. I find it sad to say but a bit of realism and I think it’s true every time we get to the championship the rug seems to be pulled from under us and ever time when the air clears it’s all down to finance’s . Not SH fault if he hasn’t got the money and doesn’t want to put the club in serious dept then it’s league 1 for us with the odd year in the championship.

 

[ChepstowGreen]

Letting Butcher leave does appear to be particularly short-sited, unless, behind the scenes, he was absolutely desperate to go.

More widely though, I can't believe that it was a conscious effort to not bring in high quality, replacement attacking midfielders / attackers.

More likely, we simply couldn't afford it.

And if that is the case, I'd personally sooner not have broken the bank than risk bankruptcy.

So, if anything, that is the opposite of 'fault', it is remaining disciplined with the greater good in mind, being the health of the football club at stake.

The overall OP is interesting and does lay bare the challenge IF has been given, though, whatever our personal thoughts about him.

 

[Leo's Grandad]

So the way I see it is do we have enough financial clout for the Championship ? No
Is that SH's fault ? No.
Was I expecting us to finish just above relegation places this season ? Yes
Was January the worst part of our season with the exits? Yes
Is the style of football under IF good to watch? No
Will we go down ? Maybe
Will I still support Argyle if they do ? Yes
Will we bounce back up next season ? Probably not.

 

[Cobi Budge]

Looking at our squad right now in comparison to last season’s squad I’d say…

GK Options - Stronger
Defensive Options - Stronger
Central midfield options - About the same
Attacking midfield options - Weaker
Forward options - Weaker

We’re stronger in the GK department with Hazard coming in and Cooper getting back to fitness. We’re stronger defensively with the additions of Gibson, Pleggy and Phillips. In central midfield we’ve still got Randell and Houghton, Forshaw has come in but Butcher left. In terms of attacking midfielders we only have Devine and Wright, last season we had Mayor and Azaz. Up top we have Hardie and Waine and I guess Bundu, last season we had Hardie/Ennis/Cosgrove/Waine.

So on balance I’d say your right, I don’t think we have a weaker squad than we did last season, but I wouldn’t say it’s stronger either, and as such the board/the recruitment team/Schumacher should definitely foot some of the blame, I’m not a big fan but it isn’t all down to IF, he has been dealt a tough hand.

 

[IPA]

I've said it before but, I think the board had a p*ss poor January.

While I don't blame all of our current plight on IF, I certainly don't think he was the right appointment, especially if we were going to continue with the ethos of expansive, attacking football. Having said that, would we still be as sterile to watch if we'd manage to hold onto Azaz and Cundle for the rest of the season?

That's the main area where the board messed up though. Despite having the $chumacher compensation money they made no serious attempt to adequately replace either of those players or strengthen our attacking options. That's the real reason we're in the position we find ourselves. They kept the purse strings tightly closed and no doubt earmarked that money for other purposes.

I'm sure the board have their reasons for their course of action but it's come back to bite us on the arse and for me it stinks of 'same old Argyle!'

 

[daront]

A good post and you are right we are weaker in areas.

Why is that.

January is notorious for crap over expensive players or being bent over by the loan market.

How would we be if we kept the players we had from the start of the season for a full season? Maybe better but not overly sure.

We are new in a massively hard league, where teams have millions to spend on players, most have ex prem facilities including a good youth set up and most teams are from the middle of the country so have a crop of players to choose from who can commute.

To still be in with a chance in our own hands to stay up for me is a fantastic effort. Yes would have been easier i feel if we didnt have the exodus in jan and that would have changed the business we wanted to do in Jan. Prob a top up of what we had. But the exodus ment we had to scramble in Jan and replace rather then add. The board were slightly blindsided by SS and the timing and the only one i blame in all of this is SS. Thanks for the great times but he really did bend us over.

 

[Green Flash]

In fairness a squad capable of getting 100 points in league one should be good enough to survive in the championship there is not that much difference between the leagues. We didnt fluke our way out of league one, we smashed it out of the park. I think the loss of attacking options since then has been huge though. I have consistently said a key to our success last season was being able swap around Ennis and Hardie as suited. Hardie has been a revelation but he is streaky, he runs so hard he cannot play for 95 minutes and some opposition teams know how to snuff him out. The failure to bring in a decent alternative to Hardie has been a huge and frankly obvious mistake, it should have been given higher priority. The squad is lopsided with a bewildering number of full/wing backs/wingers and only two genuine strikers, one of whom was not good enough for league one, never mind the championship.

 

[Kentishgreen]

Why is it the Board’s fault? They sanctioned the signing of two £1m players for the first time in our history. Is it their fault that one of them has underperformed this year? Is it the Board’s fault that the manager and several players left unexpectedly all at the same time? We have fallen down in attacking options but we were let down by Middlesbrough at the last moment. is that the Board’s fault too?
OK we’re in trouble but we’ll all be celebrating if we stay up and let’s remember there are 6 teams worse off than us and two or three others who could quite easily be in trouble too. Lots to play for yet

 

[Green Flash]

Why is it the Board’s fault? They sanctioned the signing of two £1m players for the first time in our history. Is it their fault that one of them has underperformed this year? Is it the Board’s fault that the manager and several players left unexpectedly all at the same time? We have fallen down in attacking options but we were let down by Middlesbrough at the last moment. is that the Board’s fault too?
OK we’re in trouble but we’ll all be celebrating if we stay up and let’s remember there are 6 teams worse off than us and two or three others who could quite easily be in trouble too. Lots to play for yet

It is the clubs fault that we didnt get in another decent striker as an alternative to Hardie over two transfer windows when we obviously needed one - I would blame that on the recruitment team, a rare error for them, but I have to say a rather blindingly obvious one. I know people say we tried but the right people were not available. I dont buy that as an excuse, we should have a target list long enough that we eventually get to somebody available even if they are not our first or even fifth choice and if we have to divert more of the budget that way (and perhaps away from overloaded areas of the squad) so be it.

 

[Argyleloyal]

It is the clubs fault that we didnt get in another decent striker as an alternative to Hardie over two transfer windows when we obviously needed one - I would blame that on the recruitment team, a rare error for them, but I have to say a rather blindingly obvious one. I know people say we tried but the right people were not available. I dont buy that as an excuse, we should have a target list long enough that we eventually get to somebody available even if they are not our first or even fifth choice and if we have to divert more of the budget that way (and perhaps away from overloaded areas of the squad) so be it.

The club made a mistake holding on to Middlesbrough word then them making a u turn on last day of summer transfer window