Sheffield Wednesday thread | Page 75 | PASOTI
  • This site is sponsored by
    Lang & Potter
  • Why not join up. You'll see a lot less adverts. Become a member of PASOTI, one of the oldest (if not THE oldest) football websites on the planet.
  • Can we do it? Can we squeeze in right at the last minute? Stay tuned to PASOTI.

Sheffield Wednesday thread

Jul 29, 2012
5,942
5,125
Why? These sanctions are always open to independent appeal and that’s what they’ve said they will do. Any Argyle fan if they’re being honest, finding Argyle in the exact situation as Wednesday would definitely want the new owner to appeal the third points deduction given to the club, due to the actions of the former owner. The despised and hated Dejphon Chansiri.

The new owners have every right to appeal and would be failing the club if they didn’t.
I’m just saying that it’s not a good start . I can’t actually find the 15 point rule in the current regs but understand that it’s a power/ discretion , so whether or not there’s a sliding scale or any Tribunal- which will be an EFL independent tribunal - can apply a sliding scale who knows ? The clubs including SWeds would have voted the rule change through .

Given how Leicester exploited any ambiguity in the EFL/ PL PSR rules , you might expect that the EFL are checking if there is any ambiguity.

In addition , there is a possibility that the transfer embargo may continue to apply and whatever happens you should expect the EFL to be all over the business plan . Reading last summer had to get every players contract and transfer fee paid to be signed off by the EFL before it could happen .
 
May 27, 2019
4,103
1,658
EXETER/OWLERTON
I’m just saying that it’s not a good start . I can’t actually find the 15 point rule in the current regs but understand that it’s a power/ discretion , so whether or not there’s a sliding scale or any Tribunal- which will be an EFL independent tribunal - can apply a sliding scale who knows ? The clubs including SWeds would have voted the rule change through .

Given how Leicester exploited any ambiguity in the EFL/ PL PSR rules , you might expect that the EFL are checking if there is any ambiguity.

In addition , there is a possibility that the transfer embargo may continue to apply and whatever happens you should expect the EFL to be all over the business plan . Reading last summer had to get every players contract and transfer fee paid to be signed off by the EFL before it could happen .
It’s a very good start as far as Wednesday fans are concerned. Storch is no fool and will have the best legal brains looking at this. It starts to look like triple jeopardy with yet another points deduction and transfer fee restrictions.

All against a background where the Home Secretary and the IFR have said that the days where punishing clubs, supporters and local businesses and communities for the actions of rogue owners, have to change.

We will just have to see what the new owner can either negotiate, or what the independent (Of the EFL) commission decide.
 
Jul 29, 2012
5,942
5,125
It’s a very good start as far as Wednesday fans are concerned. Storch is no fool and will have the best legal brains looking at this. It starts to look like triple jeopardy with yet another points deduction and transfer fee restrictions.

All against a background where the Home Secretary and the IFR have said that the days where punishing clubs, supporters and local businesses and communities for the actions of rogue owners, have to change.

We will just have to see what the new owner can either negotiate, or what the independent (Of the EFL) commission decide.
I get that - of course it would be “ useful” to see the actual wording but on the face of it those are the rules . My guess , if they are allowed to do so , would be to negotiate the points deduction based on the percentage being paid and maybe the transfer embargo . If there is any ambiguity, or they can’t under the regs do what they want to do , don’t be surprised if they put through a rule change ( voted on by all the clubs) before the approval is given .
 
May 27, 2019
4,103
1,658
EXETER/OWLERTON
I get that - of course it would be “ useful” to see the actual wording but on the face of it those are the rules . My guess , if they are allowed to do so , would be to negotiate the points deduction based on the percentage being paid and maybe the transfer embargo . If there is any ambiguity, or they can’t under the regs do what they want to do , don’t be surprised if they put through a rule change ( voted on by all the clubs) before the approval is given .
Well all the clubs seem to agree that the system is broken and they certainly agree with the new IFR. So I can’t see them wanting to be seen to do anything underhand like that.

Let’s face it, no club knows when it might next hit hard times.

Be honest, if Argyle had been owned by Chansiri and he’d done exactly the same to this club as he’s done to Wednesday, would you be saying to the new owners, who have done nothing wrong,
- just lay down and take what’s coming to you without exploring the appeals process???
 
Jul 29, 2012
5,942
5,125
Well all the clubs seem to agree that the system is broken and they certainly agree with the new IFR. So I can’t see them wanting to be seen to do anything underhand like that.

Let’s face it, no club knows when it might next hit hard times.

Be honest, if Argyle had been owned by Chansiri and he’d done exactly the same to this club as he’s done to Wednesday, would you be saying to the new owners, who have done nothing wrong,
- just lay down and take what’s coming to you without exploring the appeals process???
No , but the “rule “ came in in 2015 and Bolton and Derby amongst others complied with it . By declaring their intention to challenge , Storch have given the EFL the heads up so they’ll be looking at any weaknesses in their legal position . It’s no different from Leicester - every time Leicester found a weakness - and they weren’t upfront about it - in the wording , the EFL ( and PL) changed the wording .

In this case , the EFL hold the cards regarding giving approval and timing . They won’t want to punish the club any more than they feel they have to , but on the other hand they’ll want to be fair to other clubs who have complied and to the rest of the leagues so any change in the regs will go to the vote .

In addition to the threat of the 15 point deduction SWeds are also under a fee restriction ( ie they can’t pay any fee ) which applies until winter 2027 subject to appeal . So even once the deal goes through and the current embargo is lifted, Storch will have to appeal the restriction and until it’s lifted they can’t pay any fee for a player .
 
May 27, 2019
4,103
1,658
EXETER/OWLERTON
No , but the “rule “ came in in 2015 and Bolton and Derby amongst others complied with it . By declaring their intention to challenge , Storch have given the EFL the heads up so they’ll be looking at any weaknesses in their legal position . It’s no different from Leicester - every time Leicester found a weakness - and they weren’t upfront about it - in the wording , the EFL ( and PL) changed the wording .

In this case , the EFL hold the cards regarding giving approval and timing . They won’t want to punish the club any more than they feel they have to , but on the other hand they’ll want to be fair to other clubs who have complied and to the rest of the leagues so any change in the regs will go to the vote .

In addition to the threat of the 15 point deduction SWeds are also under a fee restriction ( ie they can’t pay any fee ) which applies until winter 2027 subject to appeal . So even once the deal goes through and the current embargo is lifted, Storch will have to appeal the restriction and until it’s lifted they can’t pay any fee for a player .
Well, it will hardly come as a surprise to the EFL that new owners want to contest the sanctions, so it’s hardly a heads up. Same as Dale Johnson at the BBC said about Leicester’s appeal “ No one should be surprised that Leicester have appealed against their points deduction”.

They’d have to be brain dead not to be anticipating it and as much as some of us might think there are clowns at the top of the game, we know they’re not brain dead.

Paying fees for players is not a massive problem in L1 anyway. I would hope we can put a decent squad together without paying fees, at least for next season. I hope they’re appealing that nonsense too. Where’s the fairness in relegating a side and then hitting them again in a way which is likely to hinder its recovery?

They keep spouting that it’s about getting rid of rogue owners. Well we’ve done that. We’ve been punished and relegated. What punishment has Chansiri had? He’s lost a shed load of money due to his own financial incompetence and rank bad management. Remember he got rid of all the directors at the club, or they resigned in protest at his ‘leadership’. He’s banned from ownership in the UK, but let’s face it he won’t be trying that hobby again anyway.

The only people who have been punished here really, are the supporters of Sheffield Wednesday FC and the businesses who rely on the club and its all down to that odious waste of space Dejphon Chansiri. Who EXACTLY will be punished next season with a third points deduction? The supporters, the new owners and the local community. Pubs, food outlets etc etc.

All we hope is that we have a fighting chance of putting a decent enough squad together to get to safety in L1 next season. Storch is talking already about building a squad to get back to the Championship as quickly as possible, with the PL being the ultimate aim, so hopefully the recovery starts soon.

Just for clarity, when you said ‘No’ at the beginning of your reply, were you saying, no you would not expect Argyle to just lay down and take it, if the exact same situation had occurred here?
 
Last edited:
Jul 29, 2012
5,942
5,125
Well, it will hardly come as a surprise to the EFL that new owners want to contest the sanctions, so it’s hardly a heads up. Same as Dale Johnson at the BBC said about Leicester’s appeal “ No one should be surprised that Leicester have appealed against their points deduction”.

They’d have to be brain dead not to be anticipating it and as much as some of us might think there are clowns at the top of the game, we know they’re not brain dead.

Paying fees for players is not a massive problem in L1 anyway. I would hope we can put a decent squad together without paying fees, at least for next season. I hope they’re appealing that nonsense too. Where’s the fairness in relegating a side and then hitting them again in a way which is likely to hinder its recovery?

They keep spouting that it’s about getting rid of rogue owners. Well we’ve done that. We’ve been punished and relegated. What punishment has Chansiri had? He’s lost a shed load of money due to his own financial incompetence and rank bad management. Remember he got rid of all the directors at the club, or they resigned in protest at his ‘leadership’. He’s banned from ownership in the UK, but let’s face it he won’t be trying that hobby again anyway.

The only people who have been punished here really, are the supporters of Sheffield Wednesday FC and the businesses who rely on the club and its all down to that odious waste of space Dejphon Chansiri. Who EXACTLY will be punished next season with a third points deduction? The supporters and the local community. Pubs, food outlets etc etc.

All we hope is that we have a fighting chance of putting a decent enough squad together to get to safety in L1 next season. Storch is talking already about building a squad to get back to the Championship as quickly as possible, with the PL being the ultimate aim, so hopefully the recovery starts soon.

Just for clarity, when you said ‘No’ at the beginning of your reply, were you saying, no you would not expect Argyle to just lay down and take it, if the exact same situation had occurred here?
No - I’d expect us to look at appealing but with the expectation of not succeeding.

The EFL might not have been expecting it given that none of the new owners - all uk based - of Bolton , Wigan or Derby challenged it . They , or maybe , the owners of the other EFL clubs might take umbrage at Storch trying to throw his weight around before they’ve given approval - although given that a number are American owned maybe not . I get that it’s the fans etc who will be punished but like Leicester’s fans you have also received the benefit of getting a promotion to a higher division . The rules were brought in for a reason and although it might be fairer that there should be a table of deductions based on the percentage paid rather than all or nothing - that’s how the EFL PSR penalties work - why should other clubs and fans of other L1 clubs be put at a disadvantage and purchasers to be almost given an incentive not to pay the full 25% .

Re Leicester appealing it’s no surprise but it’s an appeal made out of desperation- if they get 1 point less penalty and they stay up as a result it will have been worth it . However they’ve sold and spent next season’s parachute payments already and their fans are expecting them to go into administration next season. They’ve been shown to have deliberately tried to flout the rules and they are fully within the PL and EFL’s sights .

As to next season, you’d have thought you’d be ok . Given the change of ownership the restriction will probably be removed / reduced . Although the tighter SCP protocols will bite given the amount required to be invested in Hillsborough the 60% rule should be easy to comply with but the EFL will be all over it . The bigger challenge in year 1 especially will be putting together in effect a whole squad.
 
May 27, 2019
4,103
1,658
EXETER/OWLERTON
No - I’d expect us to look at appealing but with the expectation of not succeeding.

The EFL might not have been expecting it given that none of the new owners - all uk based - of Bolton , Wigan or Derby challenged it . They , or maybe , the owners of the other EFL clubs might take umbrage at Storch trying to throw his weight around before they’ve given approval - although given that a number are American owned maybe not . I get that it’s the fans etc who will be punished but like Leicester’s fans you have also received the benefit of getting a promotion to a higher division . The rules were brought in for a reason and although it might be fairer that there should be a table of deductions based on the percentage paid rather than all or nothing - that’s how the EFL PSR penalties work - why should other clubs and fans of other L1 clubs be put at a disadvantage and purchasers to be almost given an incentive not to pay the full 25% .

Re Leicester appealing it’s no surprise but it’s an appeal made out of desperation- if they get 1 point less penalty and they stay up as a result it will have been worth it . However they’ve sold and spent next season’s parachute payments already and their fans are expecting them to go into administration next season. They’ve been shown to have deliberately tried to flout the rules and they are fully within the PL and EFL’s sights .

As to next season, you’d have thought you’d be ok . Given the change of ownership the restriction will probably be removed / reduced . Although the tighter SCP protocols will bite given the amount required to be invested in Hillsborough the 60% rule should be easy to comply with but the EFL will be all over it . The bigger challenge in year 1 especially will be putting together in effect a whole squad.
Thanks for all your thoughts on this mate. By any stretch, he left a huge mess at the club when you look at the ridiculously lightweight squad HP has had to work with. Thankful that there is an independent commission to rule on any appeal and not Rick Parry and co. However, I won’t expect anything until We see it in print!

Interesting couple of months ahead and it’s just a shame that time has been lost with the Bord bid.
 
Jul 29, 2012
5,942
5,125
Thanks for all your thoughts on this mate. By any stretch, he left a huge mess at the club when you look at the ridiculously lightweight squad HP has had to work with. Thankful that there is an independent commission to rule on any appeal and not Rick Parry and co. However, I won’t expect anything until We see it in print!

Interesting couple of months ahead and it’s just a shame that time has been lost with the Bord bid.
Agreed and no worries- for everyone’s benefit you’d hope that the EFL deal expeditiously with the new owners application but at least you’ll still have a club and knowing they have the financial clout to take the club forward . Storch is paying £15M for the whole club - about the same as Simon Hallett is or was looking for a 30% interest . Admittedly Hillsborough needs a lot of work and it’s a distress sale but it puts it in perspective.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Devongreenowl
Aug 17, 2005
3,542
1,457
A question DGO, what do you think the ground etc are worth as a building site. Its just that as its in a different company name with chansiri owning that company if the bids that come in mean that its less than the value of the ground he could block the takeover and insist that the ground is sold. When Argyle was in administration I remember they had to get the agreement of the persons/bodies owed the monies
 
Dec 28, 2023
1,813
4,022
Why? These sanctions are always open to independent appeal and that’s what they’ve said they will do. Any Argyle fan if they’re being honest, finding Argyle in the exact situation as Wednesday would definitely want the new owner to appeal the third points deduction given to the club, due to the actions of the former owner. The despised and hated Dejphon Chansiri.

The new owners have every right to appeal and would be failing the club if they didn’t.

Wouldn’t the third points deduction be down to the actions of the new owner not meeting the price threshold and not actually the despised and hated Dejphon Chansiri?
 
May 27, 2019
4,103
1,658
EXETER/OWLERTON
Wouldn’t the third points deduction be down to the actions of the new owner not meeting the price threshold and not actually the despised and hated Dejphon Chansiri?
Maybe. But it’s like the new owner of a house being fined because the previous owner didn’t pay his council tax for years. Chansiri ran the club into the ground. They’re faced with a huge bill to bring the ground up to standard. It’s galling to have to pay him anything.
 
May 27, 2019
4,103
1,658
EXETER/OWLERTON
A question DGO, what do you think the ground etc are worth as a building site. Its just that as its in a different company name with chansiri owning that company if the bids that come in mean that its less than the value of the ground he could block the takeover and insist that the ground is sold. When Argyle was in administration I remember they had to get the agreement of the persons/bodies owed the monies
I think he failed to pay the loans on that, so it’s part of the administration process. Storch has already said that redevelopment of Hillsborough is part of their plan. He wants to retain the history. Apart from the eyesore of the Leppings Lane End, it’s still a beautiful stadium and it just needs to be brought up,to standard. Of course that can be done.
 
Nov 13, 2006
3,405
3,982
Plympton St M
Maybe. But it’s like the new owner of a house being fined because the previous owner didn’t pay his council tax for years. Chansiri ran the club into the ground. They’re faced with a huge bill to bring the ground up to standard. It’s galling to have to pay him anything.
That analogy only works if when you buy the house the contract states that you take on such debt from the previous owner.