Rumours

[Forest of Dean Green]

IF our promotion is confirmed I think with the future uncertain we need to concentrate on staying in league 1 next season.
I think that SH is too astute to invest much on players in the current climate.Our main object should be to consolidate in the short term and not waste money. There will a lot of clubs struggling to survive and perish the thought we should become one of them again.

I’d fully agree with that. Anything above consolidations and financial stability and sustainability is a bonus, but probably not an aim or an expectation

 

[Devongreenowl]

Understand all that BUT there may never be a better opportunity to go straight up to the next level in successive seasons. :scarf:

 

[PL2 3DQ]

If/when Argyle survive I think the way forward and one that fans will have to get used to will be young players from the Academy fast tracked into the first team squad, the reliance of even more loan players, especially from Premier League teams (B teams by stealth) and a sprinkling of the usual pro footballer (Mayor, McFadzean etc).

The proposed salary cap will also have a big effect on lower league teams but if/when we make it through this crisis I suppose we'll just be happy to see any kind of Argyle team playing at Home Park.

 

[Justin]

That’s a fair point AAG, but I’m more concerned with the fact that he looked out of his depth a lot of the time in L2. He does seem a target for the 'he got us relegated' posters and yet Sarce gets little of that when he played 30-odd games in that relegation season. I can’t remember if he missed any of the diabolical run in though.

I imagine Lowe is going to be looking to bring in mainly younger players who he thinks will not only do well in L1 but have the potential to be Championship players. That counts Sarcevic, Wootton and Canavan out straight away in my opinion. I think there will be quite a lot of comings and goings this summer.

Eh?

Wootton’s 28. That’s youngish for a solid centre back. And he’s got lots of vital experience. I don’t think Lowe’s so stupid that he won’t recognise the value of experience in crucial positions.

 

[saxman]

Will be sorry to see Sarce go, love his attitude and his desire. But Argyle need to step up a level. Hopefully Wootton goes with Canavan. Need to clear out players that got the club relegated.

Ah yes, the 7 games that Wootton started that season played a huge part in our getting relegated.

I don't think you can use the fact he couldn't get into a defence that was shipping goals left, right and centre as a positive.

No, the main reason why he could not get any game time was because he was out injured for 6 months.

You're re-writing history there. He was injured against Charlton in September and returned to fitness in December. Where are you getting six months from?

Derek Adams rated him so highly that he gave Peter Grant more minutes - that's Peter Grant who currently plays for Queen's Park in the Scottish basement division.

Your point that Wootton can't really be blamed for our relegation is a fair one, but don't ignore the fact that Derek saw enough in the first few games of the season to freeze Wootton out completely for almost five months, even bringing another defender in on loan.

Perhaps Wooton was playing with an injury and didn't regain enough fitness to perform at lg i standard, rather than DA 'freezing him out'. To me he remains an enigma, he can look really good and made some amazing last-gasp clearances last season but he doesn't seem to be a dominating CB. If we had one of those with Palmer in goal behind him .......... :greensmile:

 

[WoodsyGreen]

Wootton himself confirmed that wasn't the case in his summer interview with the official site, saxman. Derek bombed him out of the squad and relegation was probably the best thing for his career.

 

[elburtontrev]

If/when Argyle survive I think the way forward and one that fans will have to get used to will be young players from the Academy fast tracked into the first team squad, the reliance of even more loan players, especially from Premier League teams (B teams by stealth) and a sprinkling of the usual pro footballer (Mayor, McFadzean etc).

The proposed salary cap will also have a big effect on lower league teams but if/when we make it through this crisis I suppose we'll just be happy to see any kind of Argyle team playing at Home Park.

This is the best thing that will come out of this whole disaster. Clubs across the UK will be heavily realient on youth. Academies will now have a clear path to the first team, hopefully meaning clubs get more in touch with their local communities again.
Argyle and the current set up is getting stronger which should be very beneficial in the future :thumbup:

 

[Devongreenowl]

That’s a fair point AAG, but I’m more concerned with the fact that he looked out of his depth a lot of the time in L2. He does seem a target for the 'he got us relegated' posters and yet Sarce gets little of that when he played 30-odd games in that relegation season. I can’t remember if he missed any of the diabolical run in though.

I imagine Lowe is going to be looking to bring in mainly younger players who he thinks will not only do well in L1 but have the potential to be Championship players. That counts Sarcevic, Wootton and Canavan out straight away in my opinion. I think there will be quite a lot of comings and goings this summer.

Eh?

Wootton’s 28. That’s youngish for a solid centre back. And he’s got lots of vital experience. I don’t think Lowe’s so stupid that he won’t recognise the value of experience in crucial positions.

I realise that Justin. It doesn’t change the fact that he probably doesn’t qualify on the criteria I mentioned. ie he’s not that young, he’s not likely to do well in L1 as he has had his issues in L2, and he certainly doesn’t appear to have potential to play in the championship. He’s probably done all the improving he’s going to do. Obviously, he could prove me wrong and be our best defender next season. Not likely though.

 

[Metal Green Mickey]

Wootton isn’t good enough in my opinion. I think Sawyer too would be ripped apart in L1.

If we had another season in L2 ld be saying the same thing.

Yes Wootton improved from what we seen at the start of his Argyle career but he still made some horrendous errors. He isn’t mobile enough. It’s not particularly strong in the air.

Tbh, Palmer was magnificent and saved us in a number of games.

If l’d said next season our back 3 in league one was to be a Wootton, Canavan and Sawyer l think we all would be slightly concerned. The number of times they were exposed on the counter attack was frightening.

Hopefully we get to see a fit Aimson next season.

 

[Devongreenowl]

Absolutely agree MGM. If they were our back three next season, we would have a very short stay in L1 and I don’t mean we’d be going up to the Championship!

 

[Justin]

That’s a fair point AAG, but I’m more concerned with the fact that he looked out of his depth a lot of the time in L2. He does seem a target for the 'he got us relegated' posters and yet Sarce gets little of that when he played 30-odd games in that relegation season. I can’t remember if he missed any of the diabolical run in though.

I imagine Lowe is going to be looking to bring in mainly younger players who he thinks will not only do well in L1 but have the potential to be Championship players. That counts Sarcevic, Wootton and Canavan out straight away in my opinion. I think there will be quite a lot of comings and goings this summer.

Eh?

Wootton’s 28. That’s youngish for a solid centre back. And he’s got lots of vital experience. I don’t think Lowe’s so stupid that he won’t recognise the value of experience in crucial positions.

I realise that Justin. It doesn’t change the fact that he probably doesn’t qualify on the criteria I mentioned. ie he’s not that young, he’s not likely to do well in L1 as he has had his issues in L2, and he certainly doesn’t appear to have potential to play in the championship. He’s probably done all the improving he’s going to do. Obviously, he could prove me wrong and be our best defender next season. Not likely though.

Wootton has played in the Championship for Nottingham Forest, Rotherham and Peterborough in addition to Leeds. We all know about his footballing alma mater too.

He had a bad injury at Mk Dons and he's since rebuilt his career. That shows courage and maturity. All of this makes his experience invaluable as we aim to go up through the leagues. He stills young enough to improve. Centre backs generally hit their peak later than other outfield players. Probably around 31 - 32 on average.

You can't just ditch all the centre backs and start again every season, there has to be some continuity. I thought Lowe was supposed to be building a team? It's clear Lowe believes in Wootton and naturally that breeds confidence. I wouldn't be surprised to see him being given the captain's armband next season, if he stays.

 

[saxman]

Wootton himself confirmed that wasn't the case in his summer interview with the official site, saxman. Derek bombed him out of the squad and relegation was probably the best thing for his career.

OK, I missed that.

 

[Metal Green Mickey]

That’s a fair point AAG, but I’m more concerned with the fact that he looked out of his depth a lot of the time in L2. He does seem a target for the 'he got us relegated' posters and yet Sarce gets little of that when he played 30-odd games in that relegation season. I can’t remember if he missed any of the diabolical run in though.

I imagine Lowe is going to be looking to bring in mainly younger players who he thinks will not only do well in L1 but have the potential to be Championship players. That counts Sarcevic, Wootton and Canavan out straight away in my opinion. I think there will be quite a lot of comings and goings this summer.

Eh?

Wootton’s 28. That’s youngish for a solid centre back. And he’s got lots of vital experience. I don’t think Lowe’s so stupid that he won’t recognise the value of experience in crucial positions.

I realise that Justin. It doesn’t change the fact that he probably doesn’t qualify on the criteria I mentioned. ie he’s not that young, he’s not likely to do well in L1 as he has had his issues in L2, and he certainly doesn’t appear to have potential to play in the championship. He’s probably done all the improving he’s going to do. Obviously, he could prove me wrong and be our best defender next season. Not likely though.

Wootton has played in the Championship for Nottingham Forest, Rotherham and Peterborough in addition to Leeds. We all know about his footballing alma mater too.

He had a bad injury at Milton Keynes and he's since rebuilt his career. That shows courage and maturity. All of this makes his experience invaluable as we aim to go up through the leagues. He stills young enough to improve. Centre backs generally hit their peak later than other outfield players. Probably around 31 - 32 on average.

You can't just ditch all the centre backs and start again every season, there has to be some continuity. I thought Lowe was supposed to be building a team? It's clear Lowe believes in Wootton and naturally that breeds confidence. I wouldn't be surprised to see him being given the captain's armband next season, if he stays.

Imagine keeping all 3 of them.

If there is to be a wage cap and smaller squads then you have to make tough decisions.

Those 3 were too slow in league 2. So league 1 players will be licking their lips.

Canavan showed decent ability on the ball at times. He makes mistakes but he plays decently in the current system.

If your playing 3ATB you going to be exposed down the sides. Wootton and Sawyer were continously exposed last season.

 

[Balham Green]

That’s a fair point AAG, but I’m more concerned with the fact that he looked out of his depth a lot of the time in L2. He does seem a target for the 'he got us relegated' posters and yet Sarce gets little of that when he played 30-odd games in that relegation season. I can’t remember if he missed any of the diabolical run in though.

I imagine Lowe is going to be looking to bring in mainly younger players who he thinks will not only do well in L1 but have the potential to be Championship players. That counts Sarcevic, Wootton and Canavan out straight away in my opinion. I think there will be quite a lot of comings and goings this summer.

Eh?

Wootton’s 28. That’s youngish for a solid centre back. And he’s got lots of vital experience. I don’t think Lowe’s so stupid that he won’t recognise the value of experience in crucial positions.

I realise that Justin. It doesn’t change the fact that he probably doesn’t qualify on the criteria I mentioned. ie he’s not that young, he’s not likely to do well in L1 as he has had his issues in L2, and he certainly doesn’t appear to have potential to play in the championship. He’s probably done all the improving he’s going to do. Obviously, he could prove me wrong and be our best defender next season. Not likely though.

Wootton has played in the Championship for Nottingham Forest, Rotherham and Peterborough in addition to Leeds. We all know about his footballing alma mater too.

He had a bad injury at Milton Keynes and he's since rebuilt his career. That shows courage and maturity. All of this makes his experience invaluable as we aim to go up through the leagues. He stills young enough to improve. Centre backs generally hit their peak later than other outfield players. Probably around 31 - 32 on average.

You can't just ditch all the centre backs and start again every season, there has to be some continuity. I thought Lowe was supposed to be building a team? It's clear Lowe believes in Wootton and naturally that breeds confidence. I wouldn't be surprised to see him being given the captain's armband next season, if he stays.

Imagine keeping all 3 of them.

If there is to be a wage cap and smaller squads then you have to make tough decisions.

Those 3 were too slow in league 2. So league 1 players will be licking their lips.

Canavan showed decent ability on the ball at times. He makes mistakes but he plays decently in the current system.

If your playing 3ATB you going to be exposed down the sides. Wootton and Sawyer were continously exposed last season.

Amazing we finished in top 3 then innit despite all your prophecies.? You DID get it wrong didnt you.

 

[mervyn]

That’s a fair point AAG, but I’m more concerned with the fact that he looked out of his depth a lot of the time in L2. He does seem a target for the 'he got us relegated' posters and yet Sarce gets little of that when he played 30-odd games in that relegation season. I can’t remember if he missed any of the diabolical run in though.

I imagine Lowe is going to be looking to bring in mainly younger players who he thinks will not only do well in L1 but have the potential to be Championship players. That counts Sarcevic, Wootton and Canavan out straight away in my opinion. I think there will be quite a lot of comings and goings this summer.

Eh?

Wootton’s 28. That’s youngish for a solid centre back. And he’s got lots of vital experience. I don’t think Lowe’s so stupid that he won’t recognise the value of experience in crucial positions.

I realise that Justin. It doesn’t change the fact that he probably doesn’t qualify on the criteria I mentioned. ie he’s not that young, he’s not likely to do well in L1 as he has had his issues in L2, and he certainly doesn’t appear to have potential to play in the championship. He’s probably done all the improving he’s going to do. Obviously, he could prove me wrong and be our best defender next season. Not likely though.

Your comment that Wooton has “probably done all the improving he’s going to do” is one that is regularly repeated over the years with regard to other players on this board, as though every player is always currently the finished article. What is unique about footballers that whilst you and I can receive additional or new training throughout our career, and improve as a consequence, yet footballers strangely can’t? I can remember reading how Steve Castle, one of our finest ever players, was over the hill, Mickey Evans was a carthorse with no positional sense, so would rarely score goals, and Nicky Marker was too slow for Championship level.The only thing I’m certain about in my judgement of players is that I’m often wrong, and I think we should be careful to judge who can and can’t improve with the right training and motivation.