Resting players

[West Norwood Green]

Rose tinted, though I'm sure they must be, my memories of the Dave Smith era team (my Argyle entry point) are that the same eleven made the starting line up for every game, assuming they were not suspended or ill/injured. Tynan, Hodges, Nelson et al, pretty much guaranteed to be in the starting eleven. Admittedly fewer subs were permitted and presumably we had a smaller squad, so needs must etc but I can't recall talk of tired legs and the need for rest.

There seems now to be ongoing reference to players running on empty, needing a break, wading through treacle during games and so forth. Ryan Lowe has been referencing in interviews, since around September the number of games and toll it takes on the players. It's a common understanding that players fitness levels now a days are at a way higher level than in any previous era. Everything is monitored and structured, with regard to training, eating and sleep. Facilities and scientific knowledge are cutting edge, boots and footballs are lighter, pitches easier to play & train on and I guess even travel is less exhausting as the coaches are more comfortable and overnight stays are common place for most away games. Also, in most cases I imagine, players take good care of themselves in their free time and there aren't the same levels of social indulgence, as there may have been in the past.

Given that training can be adapted to suit whatever post match energy levels are present and the players are in full game mode for a maximum of 90 minutes many weeks and 180 others, why has tiredness become such an issue?

I post this out of genuine curiosity, rather than sniping criticism and am aware the game, at all league levels, has increased in pace but as stated, so has the quality of support and infrastructure

 

[NLG]

Think you may find they run further/harder these days, look at how we press teams. Broom and Camara especially, would be interesting to compare the stats between todays team and even one 5 years ago.

 

[Knibbsworth]

Rose tinted, though I'm sure they must be, my memories of the Dave Smith era team (my Argyle entry point) are that the same eleven made the starting line up for every game, assuming they were not suspended or ill/injured. Tynan, Hodges, Nelson et al, pretty much guaranteed to be in the starting eleven. Admittedly fewer subs were permitted and presumably we had a smaller squad, so needs must etc but I can't recall talk of tired legs and the need for rest.

There seems now to be ongoing reference to players running on empty, needing a break, wading through treacle during games and so forth. Ryan Lowe has been referencing in interviews, since around September the number of games and toll it takes on the players. It's a common understanding that players fitness levels now a days are at a way higher level than in any previous era. Everything is monitored and structured, with regard to training, eating and sleep. Facilities and scientific knowledge are cutting edge, boots and footballs are lighter, pitches easier to play & train on and I guess even travel is less exhausting as the coaches are more comfortable and overnight stays are common place for most away games. Also, in most cases I imagine, players take good care of themselves in their free time and there aren't the same levels of social indulgence, as there may have been in the past.

Given that training can be adapted to suit whatever post match energy levels are present and the players are in full game mode for a maximum of 90 minutes many weeks and 180 others, why has tiredness become such an issue?

I post this out of genuine curiosity, rather than sniping criticism and am aware the game, at all league levels, has increased in pace but as stated, so has the quality of support and infrastructure

The demands of the modern game are far more intense now. Camara is running 8 miles a match, Broom something similar, all in sprints and long bursts. You won’t notice tiredness now, but you will in February, March and April when their legs can’t do it any longer, their sprints are delayed, their running is laboured. By that stage, a day off training won’t help. They’re exhausted and need a month off to recover.
The only proven way to deal with it is rotation so the demands on the individual players isn’t so great.

 

[mervyn]

Good question WNG. I’m pretty sure it’s because of the speed and intensity of the modern game. This struck me recently when watching Match of the Day revisited, when most of the play seemed to be at a much slower pace than I previously recalled.

I remember reading that if the Stanley Matthews final had been played at today’s speed, the game would have only lasted 64 minutes. Perhaps the greater scientific knowledge and facilities you refer to are simply leading to greater stress over shorter periods, which I’m sure is also the case with rugby, and perhaps tennis.

 

[mutley marvel]

It is a long hard season & no doubt with the medical team Argyle have at their disposal each player is monitored on a daily & match day basis

RLs mantra to players has always been if something isnt right you tell me & i will pull you off the pitch

You dont want to risk a player who might be carrying a slight niggle - for you to take a chance on that player & he ends up making the injury worst & you are without that player for a longer period of time

RL has a balancing act between the team he wants to play & the what the medical professionals tell him

Elliott Turner said in his 1st interview that he wants the manager to have 85% player availability for the entire season - so with all the data collected on each player that should tell RL what players he selects on a game by game basis to ensure 85% player availability

 

[The Doctor]

Modern players simply do more work and at a higher intensity than in earlier times.

Even if you are very fit, running the kinds of distance that players run these days leaves you tired, sore, inflamed and higher intensity/speed work always increases the risk of injury.

I think that if you’ve not been a fairly serious runner then you probably can’t really appreciate the level of fatigue that is involved because it’s easy to imagine that if someone trains and is really fit their body doesn’t notice the effort much. (Obviously they don’t notice it as much as someone less trained/fit would but then they are able to go further/faster too)

 

[xmastree]

GPS and modern medical processes enable significantly improved monitoring of the players work rate, fitness, energy levels, and even vulnerability to injury. In the past players would have to run themselves into the ground before being given a rest. Now the constant monitoring can often spot if there are problems ahead. Resting players is proactive these days, rather than being reactive as in the past. The hope is that by managing players in this way they may avoid longer spells out with injury or fatigue later in the season.

 

[Balham Green]

I remember '75 promotion season am pretty sure we played 3 games in 4 days over Easter! With ONE sub.

 

[jerryatricjanner]

I remember '75 promotion season am pretty sure we played 3 games in 4 days over Easter! With ONE sub.

We did indeed and it was the norm for all teams to play Good Friday, Easter Saturday and Easter Monday until fairly recently.

 

[greenpilled]

We did indeed and it was the norm for all teams to play Good Friday, Easter Saturday and Easter Monday until fairly recently.

Presumably v teams with the same schedule & similarly settled starting line ups? If we did that now against teams rotating their squads we’d get smashed.

This season Argyle will play minimum 52 competitive games over about 40 weeks. It’s not possible for players to maintain maximum standards with that regularity. Ofc predicting and pre-empting when individual players are about to drop-off is much harder than just randomly rotating.

 

[Blackpool pilgrim]

If Argyle are going to be up there at the end of the season we need to rely on a squad of players not just the usual XI, need to keep players in the shadows on their toes so they’re ready to step in when required.

I don’t understand the issue with mayors inclusion yesterday yeah he may of tired in the 2nd half but he created the chance for the goal before finishing it himself and carved out 2 other decent chances which we should have scored at least 1 of them . Gives Broom time to recover properly and gives Lowe a selection headache for next Saturday although I expect he will go back to Broom for the Ipswich game.

 

[West Norwood Green]

Fair points by all. Unquestionably, the level of pace and pressing now is a off the scale, compared to previous eras and clearly that impacts on energy and fitness. Gone are the days of players like Mark Lawrenson making approx 60 appearances in a season (I'm sure I read that somewhere). No, I've never been a runner, so don't have a first hand feel regarding ongoing impact. My sport, though less so these days, is tennis and those short bursts of energy are broken up by gaps between points and games. Pro tennis players can cover a few miles in a match and play most days during tournament weeks but it's a different type of energy expenditure and physical impact

 

[Martyn]

The demands of the modern game are far more intense now. Camara is running 8 miles a match, Broom something similar, all in sprints and long bursts. You won’t notice tiredness now, but you will in February, March and April when their legs can’t do it any longer, their sprints are delayed, their running is laboured. By that stage, a day off training won’t help. They’re exhausted and need a month off to recover.
The only proven way to deal with it is rotation so the demands on the individual players isn’t so great.

RL, said at a recent meeting, that Camara and Broom, run an average 12 Kms a match.

 

[jerryatricjanner]

Presumably v teams with the same schedule & similarly settled starting line ups? If we did that now against teams rotating their squads we’d get smashed.

This season Argyle will play minimum 52 competitive games over about 40 weeks. It’s not possible for players to maintain maximum standards with that regularity. Ofc predicting and pre-empting when individual players are about to drop-off is much harder than just randomly rotating.

Of course all teams had the same schedule, I was merely confirming what BG recollected.
We played just as many competitive games then too unless you are now including pizza cup games which are for the youngsters and fringe players predominantly, a bit like the old Football Combination fixtures.
It is very different now though with players running vast distances and no let up in the play with the back pass for the keeper to pick up no longer allowed meaning it is 90 minutes non stop.

 

[JannerinCardiff]

If Argyle are going to be up there at the end of the season we need to rely on a squad of players not just the usual XI, need to keep players in the shadows on their toes so they’re ready to step in when required.

I don’t understand the issue with mayors inclusion yesterday yeah he may of tired in the 2nd half but he created the chance for the goal before finishing it himself and carved out 2 other decent chances which we should have scored at least 1 of them . Gives Broom time to recover properly and gives Lowe a selection headache for next Saturday although I expect he will go back to Broom for the Ipswich game.

I think it’ll be Mayor and Broom starting our next match in the LM and RM positions.

Lowe will know that Danny Mayor is not yet up to full match fitness yet and he’s only going to get there by playing matches. Pan looked a little lethargic (by his normal energetic standards) well to me at least and probably needs a rest, so I think it’ll be Broom and Mayor starting personally.