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Positive discrimination

GreenThing

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Positive discrimination is illegal. However, the BBC has advertised a job for a trainee who work on the One Show and Springwatch, which is open to Black, Asian and Ethnic Minorities only. They claim this isn’t discrimination but ‘positive action’.

How on earth is this allowed?
 
Nov 15, 2011
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"A spokesman for the BBC told Metro.co.uk: ‘The Scheme is organised by Creative Access, an independent organisation dedicated to increasing diversity in the creative industries, whose other partners include ITV, United Agents, Faber and Faber, and John Murray. ‘This is not a job, but simply a training and development opportunity.

‘This training scheme is designed as a positive action scheme to address an identified under-representation of people from ethnic minority backgrounds in certain roles; such schemes are as allowed under the Equality Act and we’re proud to be taking part."

Seems it is allowed and maybe not something to get furious about.
 

GreenThing

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So you think that excluding people from applying because of their ethnicity, in this case white, is acceptable? How can racism be stamped out when racism can be allowed under certain circumstances?
 
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It’s a trainee position encouraged by the equalities commission to get some diversity into an area where there isn’t any. One of 1,700 advertised vacancies. I really don’t understand why this would upset anyone unless they’ve been stoked up by the express/ telegraph/ GB news.
 

GreenThing

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So it’s just a junior position and it’s only one job out of 1700. No biggie then, eh? Well yes, it should be a biggie because of the principle that people are being excluded because of the colour of their skin. If you want racism to stop, equality has to mean equality across the board, no exceptions.
 
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Equality means making things equal, this is a step in that direction. According to the quote it was an area where people of ethnic diversity weren't represented and this is a step towards equality. There are 1,699 other positions where as a white person you are statistically more likely to get the job.

Positive discrimination isn't allowed in full time jobs but under the Equalities Act is allowed for trainees and internships in areas where there is under representation. The point is that people have been excluded because of the colour of their skin, this is trying to redress the balance. Your beef is with the law of the land not the BBC.
 
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GreenThing":xm42gbt9 said:
If you want racism to stop, equality has to mean equality across the board, no exceptions.

Agree with this 100%. But I suppose what we should be asking is, with the population of the UK 14% non-white (40% in London), and - for the creative sector where this BBC trainee position is for - BAME representation is nearer 5%, what do you suggest should be done give those from different ethnic backgrounds a fair crack of the whip when it comes to looking for a job?

Of course people should only ever be employed on merit, but until those doing the vetting in the application process treats everyone equally then there is a disparity which - somehow - has to be addressed. Maybe you could suggest a fairer way?
 

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GreenThing":2w0s2mnm said:
So you think that excluding people from applying because of their ethnicity, in this case white, is acceptable? How can racism be stamped out when racism can be allowed under certain circumstances?

House of Commons: Education Committee
The forgotten: how White working-class pupils have been let down, and how to change it
First Report of Session 2021–22


Well Greeny, I guess these white kids just need to just suck it up?
Shame we can't do anything to help them but that wouldn't be 'fair', would it? :think:
 
Pogleswoody":2rjwfy5c said:
GreenThing":2rjwfy5c said:
So you think that excluding people from applying because of their ethnicity, in this case white, is acceptable? How can racism be stamped out when racism can be allowed under certain circumstances?

House of Commons: Education Committee
The forgotten: how White working-class pupils have been let down, and how to change it
First Report of Session 2021–22


Well Greeny, I guess these white kids just need to just suck it up?
Shame we can't do anything to help them but that wouldn't be 'fair', would it? :think:

My daughter teaches in one of the East End’s largest comprehensives. She has been talking for over 20 years about the huge gap between white working class kids and the rest. She is convinced that the problem is the lack of aspiration for their children by white working class parents. They rarely attend open evenings, parent plus pupil sessions, and are less responsive when contacted by teachers. She doesn’t believe it’s a poverty issue. She finds that whilst many non-white parents are clearly poorer, they are far more supportive of their children, and generally expect them to take full advantage of all the educational opportunities on offer. She also tutors, and all her pupils there are non-white, again because of more aspirational parents.
 
Sep 2, 2008
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Quinny":3kihgftj said:
GreenThing":3kihgftj said:
If you want racism to stop, equality has to mean equality across the board, no exceptions.

Agree with this 100%. But I suppose what we should be asking is, with the population of the UK 14% non-white (40% in London), and - for the creative sector where this BBC trainee position is for - BAME representation is nearer 5%, what do you suggest should be done give those from different ethnic backgrounds a fair crack of the whip when it comes to looking for a job?

Of course people should only ever be employed on merit, but until those doing the vetting in the application process treats everyone equally then there is a disparity which - somehow - has to be addressed. Maybe you could suggest a fairer way?

So you're saying that the BBC application process doesn't treat everyone equally? I find that very hard to believe.

The fact that there is BAME representation in that sector demonstrates to me that it is fair. Ever considered that perhaps not many from the BAME community are interested in the creative sector or there are better candidates?

Positively discriminating in this way will only result in a potentially better candidate being excluded so you potentially end up with someone of a lower quality.

This sort of thing happens in every walk of life unfortunately just to meet the bleating calls of those that cant make the grade and for organisations to put a tick in the box. Thats why standards are dropping all over the place.

People no longer need to strive to be the best because they are virtually given a free pass anyway.

I was at a school sports day recently and they weren't giving out prizes to the winners because, 'they're all winners' :wtf:
 
Nov 15, 2011
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Potty either doesn’t understand or doesn’t want to understand that this policy has been introduced by the Equalities Commission because the best person for the job wasn’t always being selected because of the colour of their skin.
 
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Pogleswoody":mmvk61pu said:
GreenThing":mmvk61pu said:
So you think that excluding people from applying because of their ethnicity, in this case white, is acceptable? How can racism be stamped out when racism can be allowed under certain circumstances?

House of Commons: Education Committee
The forgotten: how White working-class pupils have been let down, and how to change it
First Report of Session 2021–22


Well Greeny, I guess these white kids just need to just suck it up?
Shame we can't do anything to help them but that wouldn't be 'fair', would it? :think:

http://news.sky.com/story/terms-such-as ... s-12337996

That awful phrase "white privilege" may not have helped, apparently. In trying to equalise, maybe occasionally, a bit too much weight is put on one end of the see-saw ?
 
Nov 15, 2011
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I remember a few years back when black boys were the worst performing in schools it was apparently all about bad parenting and absent fathers, not now though.

The actual reasons are complex and societal, and the biggest factor is consecutive Conservative governments ignoring education as they predictably demonstrated 2 weeks ago when they only put up £1 billion of the £15 billion required in the Covid catch up fund. Still they're spending £200 million on a new yacht with extra large flags so it's not all bad news.
 
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