Norwich post-match round up | Page 7 | PASOTI
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Norwich post-match round up

lansim

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Apr 11, 2023
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I agree that we didn't do very well, but I don't think we gave up.

In general, I don't really think it is really fair to state things like 'we gave up' as if this is a fact as that pre-supposes that you know what was going on inside the heads of the players. I am sure that they were all deeply annoyed, frustrated and perhaps even embarrassed by how easily they were beaten in the end, but they definitely kept trying - saves and blocks were made, attacks were attempted, shots were generated, all signs of continued effort I would say. But, of course, as well as those positives, the negatives also continued - misplaced passes, poor positioning, flawed marking etc - and Norwich did a good job of punishing us.

I think you are right that 7 points from the next 7 games is a reasonable hope/expectation but there will probably be a surprise result somewhere in that group of fixtures and with a bit of luck it will be in our favour!
Yes probably not right to say 'gave up' but confidence dropped and maybe contributed to the the number of mistakes thereafter. Somehow these mistakes need to be reduced or else this will keep happening against the better teams. I don't know if it's because the players can't play to Rooney's system/expectations or just confidence or bad luck.
 
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The Doctor

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Yes probably not right to say 'gave up' but confidence dropped and maybe contributed to the the number of mistakes thereafter. Somehow these mistakes need to be reduced or else this will keep happening against the better teams. I don't know if it's because the players can't play to Rooney's system/expectations or just confidence or bad luck.
There certainly seems to be a real fragility. I think the way that a kind of group psychology affects teams in games is really fascinating to observe and think about. You can often see how one team seems to be coasting to victory and then something happens in a game and the whole psychology of the team changes - things start going wrong, nerves creep in, mistakes get made and suddenly they go from being 2-0 up to staring down the barrel of a 3-2 defeat.

I think we are very vulnerable to this kind of psychological switch. I think it's why we can come back into games sometimes (Preston, Watford) that we seem to be completely out of but it is, of course, why we sometimes seem to utterly collapse. We're mentally/psychological fragile/vulnerable. I'd be interested to know whether the Argyle squad and/or individual players do any work with a sports psychologist. I have an inkling that the right mental training could make a huge difference. Sometimes we're really mentally tough in games but it takes some kind of trigger and if that doesn't occur and we also get a couple of set backs then the team seems to rather fall apart.
 
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SurreyJanner

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....

It was interesting to me that even last night, in between noting how poor some of Argyle's play was, the Sky commentary team (especially the co-commentator - I don't know who that was) were also saying quite a lot of positive things about some of attacking play and noting that we were posing a threat to the Norwich defence. I missed the start of the second half but got back to the game just before Norwich scored and at that point the commentators were saying how well we had started the half and how unfortunate it was that we had then conceded despite that good start. So, I think the lines are finer than many make them out to be - I mean, they are obviously not 3H pencil fine but perhaps they are more 2B than 4B or 5B...!
Ignoring the 6 goals that Norwich scored of course... but our attacking stats were actually one of our best so far this season (even if we only got those stats by pressing and leaving gaping holes behind us). 13 shots, 4 on target, 16 touches in the box. Although that in itself says a lot about our lack of final third penetration this season....
 
May 19, 2023
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Kind of agree but after successive heavy away defeats and Rooney being accused of dogma, people on here were calling for a change of plan. Since then we’ve had a back 6 at Leeds and last night a 5 (without the ball). I didn’t watch the Derby game.

Nothing has really worked so what conclusion does that bring?
The wing backs are not working hard enough, leaving the back 3 so open and stretched hence why were so easy to play through. Just play a back 4, although i just dont think the players are good enough collectively.
 
Oct 5, 2022
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Well we are not able to tackle! It's in keeping with the previous poster that we have to be nastier. And more streetwise.
Certainly some crunching tackles would not go amiss as well as some more physicality. The players can be more streetwise also but unless we work on the basics such as passing, marking and tracking runs we are still going to get turned over on a regular basis.
 
Sep 22, 2020
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just back from Norwich. a real shocker but no real surprise. Poor all over the pitch.

imho Grimshaw is not what we need at this level. We need a keeper of bigger stature and presence who can take crosses, come for corners (at least in the 6 yard box and marshall his defence. It is all right being good with your feet but you need to have very good basics before anything else.

Hopefully Hazard back very soon. He is not perfect but is a much, much better option at the moment going forward.
 
Sep 6, 2006
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Ignoring the 6 goals that Norwich scored of course... but our attacking stats were actually one of our best so far this season (even if we only got those stats by pressing and leaving gaping holes behind us). 13 shots, 4 on target, 16 touches in the box. Although that in itself says a lot about our lack of final third penetration this season....
And ignoring the other 3 or 4 they should have scored.
 
Dec 30, 2020
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I'm not sure it does simply come back to Rooney. We had games where we never picked up the tempo/intensity last season even when Schumacher was in charge. It was only when we clicked up a gear that things came together - I'm recalling the home games against Blackburn and Norwich that we ended up winning easily but really should have been dead and buried in before we took control. Also, going back two years we quite often ground away in the earlier parts of games and then only in the last 20-30 minutes, usually playing towards the Devonport End, did we take control of games and blow teams away - the Ipswich and Sheffield Wednesday games come to mind.

There's no doubting that we're not playing very well at the moment and obviously Rooney is the man at the helm so he undoubtedly has some responsibility but I think we all have a tendency to remember the positive parts of the last couple of seasons much more than the negatives. It was around this time two years ago (perhaps a little earlier in the season?) that we lost at home to Swansea and Millwall in the space of a few days and my recollection is that in those games we played pretty tepid, ineffectual football. Also, haven't there been stats that show that even in our 100 point League 1 title-winning season we hardly won away from home (perhaps I am misremembering). So I am not entirely convinced that things are that much worse than there were this time last season (although I do think that the current stats for possession and touches in the opposition box etc do paint a pretty depressing picture).

It was interesting to me that even last night, in between noting how poor some of Argyle's play was, the Sky commentary team (especially the co-commentator - I don't know who that was) were also saying quite a lot of positive things about some of attacking play and noting that we were posing a threat to the Norwich defence. I missed the start of the second half but got back to the game just before Norwich scored and at that point the commentators were saying how well we had started the half and how unfortunate it was that we had then conceded despite that good start. So, I think the lines are finer than many make them out to be - I mean, they are obviously not 3H pencil fine but perhaps they are more 2B than 4B or 5B...!

When people were venting at Foster last season, I repeatedly said that they were misremembering how frequently we rode our luck under Schumacher. I still feel the fact we had harder games in the second half of last season and the loss of key players in January were more important to our downturn in form than the change of manager.

So I would like to think I am pretty objective about this, and I would say that the games you cite from the Schumacher era were nowhere near as bad as we have been this season. As I recall it, Argyle pretty much took Norwich apart at Home Park and never looked in trouble. In the games v Blackburn and Swansea (you could also add Huddersfield, Sheffield Wednesday, Stoke and Rotherham) we were on the backfoot at times and to have won five and lost only one of those six undoubtedly flattered us. But they were all entertaining games where we produced spells of good football.

Since the second international break that really hasn't been the case. To have taken four points from the Portsmouth and Watford games wasn't fine margins or breaks going our way, it was utterly freakish. We created virtually nothing across the two games and yet scored three goals - Gray conjured up two from nowhere and Obafemi scored v Portsmouth by chasing down slapstick defending. When a long punt from the keeper provides an assist for a goal in pub football, everyone laughs so to be gifted a goal that way in the Championship is unbelievably lucky. Things like that won't keep happening and we will start losing every week without a massive improvement.

Obviously the away performances have been even worse. We had one four goal defeat last season to the league champions, after a putting in a decent first half performance. We've had three already this year, to three teams in midtable or worse.

I don't think this is simply down to Rooney. But as I said in the original post, the lack of intensity seems to come from a combination of a lack of quality, confidence and preparation. The latter two are things that the coaching team should be able to affect.
 

999mattyg

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Terrible result, players didn't turn up, however some excessive 'over reaction' happening!
I agree. This is a division of two mini leagues. We all know which one we’re in. If your team has an off day to a top team then you can get spanked. That said, WR must come up with a plan to make us more resilient away from home. Yesterday was not a one off!
 
Sep 22, 2020
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do not think there is any over reaction.

we are scoring few, conceding lots and unless things change we will remain deep in the relegation battle.

yes it was particularly poor last night but it is the latest in a continuing theme of away disasters.
 
Sep 6, 2006
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I agree. This is a division of two mini leagues. We all know which one we’re in. If your team has an off day to a top team then you can get spanked. That said, WR must come up with a plan to make us more resilient away from home. Yesterday was not a one off!
We are not getting spanked by TOP teams though!
 
Sep 3, 2009
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do not think there is any over reaction.

we are scoring few, conceding lots and unless things change we will remain deep in the relegation battle.

yes it was particularly poor last night but it is the latest in a continuing theme of away disasters.
Agree. The result last night has been coming. We are bottom of the league by most metrics and I find it astonishing that we’ve managed to get to 17 points.
 
Mar 7, 2010
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in the last few days doc, you have posted two of the most sensible analyses of our predicament, the reality of the strength of our squad and the reality of our challenge in the next few months. Please keep doing it!!
The championship is really three leagues in one and we absolutely need to focus on our likely 'competitors' for the drop. If we can be top of league 'c', that would put us at 18th and living the dream.
Hang on a minute. Until last night Norwich were 2 points ahead of us and hadn't won in 7 I believe. Surely that would have put them in our 'mini league'?!
As it happens they jumped to flipping 9th, mainly because their GD went from +1 to +6 in the space of one evening.
 
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