• Welcome to PASOTI (Sponsored by GA Solictors and Lang & Potter)
  • Hello guests - don't forget that by registering and signing up for Pasoti you'll see less adverts plus receive extras like free match tickets, taking part in polls, joining in the chat room and more. Come and join us!

Next Labour Leader

Jun 8, 2014
2,034
0
Owen Smith who claims to be the unity candidate who’ll win over Corbynistas is really just a Blairite careerist who’s never had a real job.
 

Pogleswoody

Kate Sponsor
Lowey Sponsor
Pun Master
50/50 Sponsor
NHS Volunteer Supporter
NHS Cake Donor
T.O Support
Jul 3, 2006
16,787
353
70
Location Location
Josh Pope":2wwlhit3 said:
Owen Smith who claims to be the unity candidate who’ll win over Corbynistas is really just a Blairite careerist who’s never had a real job.


Oh right .. so remind me, what did J Corbyn do as a 'real job' before becoming a MP? :think:
 
A

andyr1963

Guest
crownhillpilgrim":1tngndyp said:
I can't see a split happening... the party members are too gutless for that. Maybe a handful of defections to the Libs. They will just try and ride it out until 2020, after which, party members might come to their senses, but I doubt it (I've never met a socialist with much in the way of sense)

By the "handfull of defections to the Libs" I guess you are referring to the MP's rather than the members. If not why would anyone go to the trouble of joining one party to immediately jump ship?

My guess is the membership is getting angry and want their party to move left away from the majority of Labour MP's back towards the voters left behind, back towards the ex labour scottish voters, back towards the white working class who voted "out", back towards the "them and us" of yesteryear. Because today "We are all in this together" :greensmile:
Centrist / Right / Blairite government got Labour into power but lost a huge part of the Labour membership. The tide has turned. Will the Membership move to the left actually achieve anything? I doubt it, but cannot see a viable alternative at the moment.
 
Oct 9, 2003
3,554
33
Aberdeen
andyr1963":17grocuj said:
crownhillpilgrim":17grocuj said:
I can't see a split happening... the party members are too gutless for that. Maybe a handful of defections to the Libs. They will just try and ride it out until 2020, after which, party members might come to their senses, but I doubt it (I've never met a socialist with much in the way of sense)

By the "handfull of defections to the Libs" I guess you are referring to the MP's rather than the members. If not why would anyone go to the trouble of joining one party to immediately jump ship?

My guess is the membership is getting angry and want their party to move left away from the majority of Labour MP's back towards the voters left behind, back towards the ex labour scottish voters, back towards the white working class who voted "out", back towards the "them and us" of yesteryear. Because today "We are all in this together" :greensmile:
Centrist / Right / Blairite government got Labour into power but lost a huge part of the Labour membership. The tide has turned. Will the Membership move to the left actually achieve anything? I doubt it, but cannot see a viable alternative at the moment.

I think you're right. History will possibly define the New Labour movement as the beginning of the end of the Labour Party per se.

Ever since that point the issue for followers has been belief versus power.
 
Oct 9, 2003
3,554
33
Aberdeen
Tough gig whoever wins:

Latest ICM: CON 43%(+4), LAB 27%(-2), LDEM 8%(-1), UKIP 13(-1)
Latest YouGov: CON 40%, LAB 28%, LDEM 8%, UKIP 13%, GRN 4%
Latest Opinium: CON 37%(+3), LAB 31%(+2), LDEM 6%(-1), UKIP 15%(-2), GRN 4%(nc)
 

CJH

Jun 26, 2015
190
0
Tauranga NZ
If the Corbyn supporters and Britex out voters are the same people then we are being driven by a double edge sword into extreme left wing politics that have a proven track record of failure. Marx's theory of economics are regarded by some as being the purest of economic thinking, but it fails to address a number of mankind's greatest sins, namely greed, elitism, deceit, lazy just to name a few, which make's it totally impractical.
 
Oct 9, 2003
3,554
33
Aberdeen
I caught the end of a Labour leadership debate on 5Live yesterday whilst travelling.

Corbyn much as you would expect and promising to spend lots of money on every problem the audience raised including all forms of education and removing tuition fees. When challenged where the money would come from, everything seemed to be sourced from corporate taxation - he'd be lucky if there's any companies left in the UK for these super educated people to work for.

Smith much more polished but came across as being Jeremy Corbyn with a more electable face. His most preposterous comment was that he thinks we should invest £60Bn more in the NHS. Whaaaat !? Where does that come from then ?

More of the 'undecideds' moved to Corbyn after the debate. Seems to be done and dusted, but this lot are a complete shambles and a risk to our democracy.
 
Jul 15, 2006
3,848
39
Kenton, Devon
Smith's campaign pretty much came to an end yesterday, especially when he said we should sit down and negotiate with ISIS, while Corbyn had a "no negotiation" stance. Smith was royally ripped for that comment.
 
Apr 15, 2008
4,060
0
London
Frank_Butcher":gs0rbijc said:
I caught the end of a Labour leadership debate on 5Live yesterday whilst travelling.

Corbyn much as you would expect and promising to spend lots of money on every problem the audience raised including all forms of education and removing tuition fees. When challenged where the money would come from, everything seemed to be sourced from corporate taxation - he'd be lucky if there's any companies left in the UK for these super educated people to work for.

Smith much more polished but came across as being Jeremy Corbyn with a more electable face. His most preposterous comment was that he thinks we should invest £60Bn more in the NHS. Whaaaat !? Where does that come from then ?

More of the 'undecideds' moved to Corbyn after the debate. Seems to be done and dusted, but this lot are a complete shambles and a risk to our democracy.

What - you haven't heard of the magic money tree?
 
Oct 6, 2005
1,019
0
Winchester
I fail to see how adding a couple of percentage onto corporation tax will drive away companies. Aren't we what, the 4th biggest economy in the world (correct me if I'm wrong) why would any company want to leave that because of having to pay a bit more corporation tax?

I really fail to see what is so crazy about having a fairer society, there are some people in this country who are really down and out. The divide in equality is so big now, what's wrong with making sure people get a fairer share?
 
Oct 9, 2003
3,554
33
Aberdeen
TBH I don't disagree and I think most companies would stomach a couple of points, but Corbyn is talking vast amounts of money. The truth is that he cannot hope to raise the amount he would need from corporation tax and hence it would have to come down to personal taxation. That is something he and his team do not want to countenance in public. This was evidenced yesterday by the very vague language he used when challenged by the host, having just declared the last in a long list of spending pledges.

You can only make a difference when you become electable and while there will be core group of supporters for this man, he will never appeal the wider public. Other than a self-inflicted catastrophe I can only see a free ride for the Tories.
 
Oct 6, 2005
1,019
0
Winchester
No it doesn't. It involves that radical idea of a mixed economy, Keynesian economics if you will. Changing the idea of private good, public bad in simple terms. They both have a place.
 
Apr 15, 2008
4,060
0
London
Kevin_Dacombe":2ha8lshu said:
No it doesn't. It involves that radical idea of a mixed economy, Keynesian economics if you will. Changing the idea of private good, public bad in simple terms. They both have a place.

I think you're giving Corbyn a bit too much credit - suggesting he has any practical economic plans.