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Next Labour Leader

Feb 24, 2008
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Torpoint
Benn and co are destroying the Labour Party, not Corbyn.

The membership voted strongly for him and in the next leadership election, will do so again. Whether the shadow cabinet, or ex-shadow cabinet as the case is now, like it or not, Labour Party members want Jeremy Corbyn as leader.

Perhaps they trudge off to the Tory Party or pick their toys up and listen to what the Party wants.
 
A

andyr1963

Guest
Frazer Lloyd-Davies":39l9aj3r said:
Benn and co are destroying the Labour Party, not Corbyn.

The membership voted strongly for him and in the next leadership election, will do so again. Whether the shadow cabinet, or ex-shadow cabinet as the case is now, like it or not, Labour Party members want Jeremy Corbyn as leader.

Perhaps they trudge off to the Tory Party or pick their toys up and listen to what the Party wants.


Then we can have the split formally. Blairites will obviously want to fight to take the name "Labour" with them but should fail. They can leave and become er "Social Democrats" or "Not quite left enough to be tory wets" or whatever.

Labour can then go to work trying to reconnect with the millions of disenfanchised white working voter.
 
Jul 15, 2006
3,892
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Kenton, Devon
Frazer Lloyd-Davies":1649vf8r said:
Benn and co are destroying the Labour Party, not Corbyn. .

It's a mix of both, to be fair.

Corbyn is hugely popular amongst the grass-roots labour members: that's for sure. If 52% of those who voted #leave in the referendum determined to be a clear mandate to leave the EU, then JC getting 58% of the votes in the last leadership battle leaves it in no doubt that he should be party leader. I suspect JC's stock has taken a bit of a hit in the last 12 months or so, but I think he'll still have enough support to comfortably win again. However, if he has the respect of the grass-roots, why is it Labour still can't get ahead of the Tories in the polls: the last survey had them 3 or 4 points behind (Labour haven't been ahead in the polls now for nigh on two years).

However, it cannot be ignored that the vast majority of Labour MP's no longer have confidence in Corbyn to lead the party or that they feel they can put up a robust challenge under him in the next general election (whenever that will be). It is also becoming apparent that, no matter what he has said (reluctantly) over the last few months, he has let his personal feelings over the EU get in the way of the party position of backing #Remain, and in refusing to share a stand with Cameron or doctoring the wording in speeches, or focussing on attacking TTIP rather than speaking positively about the benefits of being in the EU, he certainly contributed in damaging the #Remain campaign (although I wouldn't go as far as saying he was responsible for #Remain losing). His performances at the dispatch box in PMQ is hardly awe-inspiring either: the Tories (and Cameron) have had a pretty torrid time and Corbyn should have had Cameron on the ropes most weeks, but at best he comes out of PMQ with a score-draw. If he can't command the respect or confidence of his colleagues in Parliament, then his position as party leader is untenable and, for the sake of the party, the only honourable course of action would be to step down.

That being said, the actions of many who oppose him has been pretty pathetic, not just in the last week but ever since he took office. When he took control most of the 'big guns' in the Labour Party slunk off to the back-benches, refusing to work in his cabinet. And you always felt that he never had the solid backing of those who did choose to work with him in the Shadow Cabinet. The mass resignation of the Shadow Cabinet last week was a step too far and did nothing bar damage Labour's image and did make them all look like petulant, spoilt children. Corbyn may not command their respect, but that does not give them the right to be disrespectful of their leader, especially in public.

Cobi is right: the country needs an effective opposition, and it needs a strong 'left' voice to counter the Tory message and policies: the incumbent Government has to be held to account in the commons. As much as I like JC, and as much as I agree with a lot of his policies and what he stands for, I don't think he's the right person to lead the party and his reputation has been damaged over his disinterest in the #Remain campaign.
 

Frank Butcher

Foodbank Donor
Oct 9, 2003
3,603
53
Gairloch
Frazer Lloyd-Davies":26vvt5gm said:
Benn and co are destroying the Labour Party, not Corbyn. .

Benn and co. are perhaps destroying what you seem to want the Labour party to be - or in eons past, what it was.

Corbyn is destroying any prospect of Government at a time went the current one is in absolute crisis.

I suspect the membership would re-elect Corbyn. But the views of the core membership do not reflect the views of the wider voting public in this century. Like it or not, that's why New Labour was born - the party has regressed 20 years, is back in the doldrums and quite likely to split.
 
Nov 11, 2012
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Keyham
This is why I think the Labour party well probably split. The membership that support Corbyn is deluded if they think the far left would ever get elected in this country especially since they have been wiped out in Scotland.
 
Nov 18, 2011
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Keyham Pilgrim":1t6rnzmi said:
This is why I think the Labour party well probably split. The membership that support Corbyn is deluded if they think the far left would ever get elected in this country especially since they have been wiped out in Scotland.

Gordon Brown and Ed Milliband proved that the general population were sick of New Labour and it's style of politics. The election of Corbyn proved the members were also tired of New Labour.
Maybe Corbyn's direction isn't the way to go but going back to a New Labour style party is similarly backward looking and probably wouldn't lead to success as well.

A new direction is needed for the party, one which is able to sell left wing politics to the general population like Podemos managed to do in Spain for a while. I personally thought Corbyn could be that man but maybe this is not the case, however I don't believe it's a lost cause as frankly most of his MP's haven't allowed him to have a go at trying.

If he had a bit more experience then someone like Clive Lewis, the MP for Norwich South could be an alternative to Corbyn with more crossover appeal.
 
Feb 24, 2008
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But then it all comes back to whether JC is electable doesn't it?

Had the PLP got behind JC when he won so convincely, perhaps Labour would be doing better in the polls. Saying the Left can't or won't win is an unknown and again, perhaps if the Labour Party supported the man put in place we'd see more support for the Left.

JC won the leadership election but has never been given a fair opportunity to lead the Labour Party.
 
Oct 6, 2005
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Winchester
Keyham Pilgrim":2blihm33 said:
This is why I think the Labour party well probably split. The membership that support Corbyn is deluded if they think the far left would ever get elected in this country especially since they have been wiped out in Scotland.

Far Left? I fail to see how wanting to renationalise the railways is far left. Anyway, your comment about Scotland completely misses the point as to why they have been wiped out. It was down to Labour drifting too far to what is now the centre (abstaining on the welfare bill finished them off), the Iraq war and a general dislike for career politicians. Centrism is dying in this country, people are fed up with the same old politics and want change and we have to choose whether it drifts to the right or left.

As for Corbyn being unelectable, he wins quite a few elections for someone who apparently is a turn off for voters.
 
Nov 11, 2012
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Totally agree that JC was never given the support of the MP's that his leadership victory deserved and I can believe that there were some plotting to get rid of him straight away.

We well just have to agree to disagree on whether a true left wing party could get elected but I think we all know it is essential that Labour sorts itself out because we need a credible opposition. However I think a split is a real possibility which would be terrible not just for the Labour party but also the country.
 
Apr 15, 2008
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London
The trouble is, a far left party attracts all the nutters, the communists, the dog-on-a-string class war morons, the 'I'm offended by everything' mob, the Trots, the anti-semites and terrorist apologists. You can't reconcile that with a party that would appeal to the general public.
 
Apr 15, 2008
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London
Frazer Lloyd-Davies":2adf03f3 said:
But Labour aren't far left. Communism and socialism are not the same thing.

Lots of far left types infiltrating the party. Just look at the disgraceful scenes at the anti-Semitism enquiry today.
 
Apr 15, 2008
4,061
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London
At the loony-but-kind of harmless(?) end of the scale it's Jezza speaking at a May Day parade where flags of Stalin were being waved... yes, flags with the face of a mass-murdering (20m+ people) were actually being waved.