Mid-Table Finish? (And Grandstand Discussion)

[briangreen]

It doesn't matter a single jot what this poll or that poll says, does it? It all comes down to what the Council Planning Committee decide so let's not get our proverbial knickers in a twist over this again, shall we? :roll:

You're right, but I think the planners have already decided to push it through mostly because of associated city investment (ie the Pavillions).
I have nothing in principle against the basic plans, it will certainly be an improvement on the present situation and Brent has stated (on record) that the capacity will be enlarged if the club is successful. If you trust the man then there is no problem, if you don't then you wont trust any businessman because going by reputation he's the cream of the crop.

Of course the Planners have already agreed to push it through !
To believe anything else is naive in the extreme. There may be a few minor alterations required but am sure James Brent knows they are coming. This development is certainly happening and in the interim a top ten finish would be a massive boost for the coming season

So, despite the tone of your reply you actually agree with me then? Oh, well, that's alright then innit... :roll:

 

[briangreen]

It doesn't matter a single jot what this poll or that poll says, does it? It all comes down to what the Council Planning Committee decide so let's not get our proverbial knickers in a twist over this again, shall we? :roll:

You're right, but I think the planners have already decided to push it through mostly because of associated city investment (ie the Pavillions).
I have nothing in principle against the basic plans, it will certainly be an improvement on the present situation and Brent has stated (on record) that the capacity will be enlarged if the club is successful. If you trust the man then there is no problem, if you don't then you wont trust any businessman because going by reputation he's the cream of the crop.

Final sentence - whilst there are certainly a great many businessmen who are significantly less trustworthy, the "by reputation he's the cream of the crop" is a bit of a wild and unqualified assertion and not one I would agree with.

Why, have you checked him out? I have

 

[jimbowen]

A few people need to get real, when Argyle are pulling in anything like 16-17k fans a week then the revenue from merchandise, TV rights and sponsorship will also rise making us a much more attractive option again. If we are pushing for the premier league then the bigger bucks will be attracted. If a stand such as Devonport or the like needs to be redeveloped then it will. Looking "lop sided"????, have you not been to St James Park (the real one). It holds 52k and has streets all around as well as listed building on one side. Anything is possible where bricks and mortar are concerned. If the team ever perform well enough then "the will" will be there.

 

[GreenSam]

Before being so arrogant with your replies both lost pilgrim & ejh (not unusual for the later) I think you'll find that it's your merry band of men that keep bringing up polls & how they seem to somehow say that all & sundry are against the plans, most polls on here are pretty useless when used as a complete indicator as to the support either pro or against, & no I don't recall all other polls (which there were many in various disguises) being against the plans so we can disagree on that. Some may not like other people's opinion on the stand, I have absolutely NO issues with others having a different opinion it's only when they tar all with the same brush or try to bend the truth to suit them.

Edited to add lost pilgrim when you say things like fans being so blinkered against an alternative view, or words to that effect, you need to be aware of some like ejh who seem to spend large amounts of his time on here on every stand related thread trying to convince us, & trying hard I'll give him that, that he is right regarding the plans, the double standards from many as to who can say what & who is right is laughable. You guys go ahead & be against the plans, you are entitled to do so, some of us are happy with what's proposed so how about leaving it at that.

As you say everyone is entitled to their views and we all should respect that but I genuinely don't get why any fan should be so passionately supportive of the plans. Surely for every fan a free 20,000 capacity ground is better than a free 17,000 capacity one. I can understand acceptance. If you hold the view that a 17,000 capacity ground is all we are going to get from Mr Brent and we are a small club and are unlikely to need anything larger then fine, but why the wholehearted support of it, I honestly don't get it.

Exactly. Grudging acceptance I get and to a small extent even agree with. But the fact that some people seemed genuinely gleeful at the rejection of the WG plans? Don't get that at all.

 

[LostPilgrim]

Before being so arrogant with your replies both lost pilgrim & ejh (not unusual for the later) I think you'll find that it's your merry band of men that keep bringing up polls & how they seem to somehow say that all & sundry are against the plans, most polls on here are pretty useless when used as a complete indicator as to the support either pro or against, & no I don't recall all other polls (which there were many in various disguises) being against the plans so we can disagree on that. Some may not like other people's opinion on the stand, I have absolutely NO issues with others having a different opinion it's only when they tar all with the same brush or try to bend the truth to suit them.

Edited to add lost pilgrim when you say things like fans being so blinkered against an alternative view, or words to that effect, you need to be aware of some like ejh who seem to spend large amounts of his time on here on every stand related thread trying to convince us, & trying hard I'll give him that, that he is right regarding the plans, the double standards from many as to who can say what & who is right is laughable. You guys go ahead & be against the plans, you are entitled to do so, some of us are happy with what's proposed so how about leaving it at that.

Where the stadium is concerned, I don't believe anyone on here is trying to convince anyone of anything. The ship has quite clearly sailed, and Argyle's long term ambitions have been left on shore...unfortunately.

This resignment might go some way to explain my "arrogance", but my main issue here is my inability to let utter bullsh*t go.

For instance, this gem from our Site Owner:

Half didn't want it? No true.

More than half on an internet website poll, did want it, but even that was less than 3% of the site's membership.

Perhaps your avatar gives a hint to why you would say that.

'Cheer up, it might not happen', as me old Gran used to say.

What exactly is our Site Owner trying to say here? On the one hand:

More than half on an internet website poll, did want it...

So therefore more than half the general fanbase? Well, perhaps not because...

...but even that was less than 3% of the site's membership

Oh, so the thing was a completely pointless exercise either way then?! Make your flaming mind up!

Do you think a poll on the football club forum you own is pointless or meaningful? Or does it depend if it is in favour of the current chairman of the football club your football club forum represents? :think:

Whlist I am here, did it really take you three days to come up with this...

Oh dear god not this again :facepalm: :sigh:

Sadly it looks like it

Profound contributions to this, admittedly rather pointless, thread, I am sure we will all agree! :thumbs:

 

[xmastree]

It doesn't matter a single jot what this poll or that poll says, does it? It all comes down to what the Council Planning Committee decide so let's not get our proverbial knickers in a twist over this again, shall we? :roll:

You're right, but I think the planners have already decided to push it through mostly because of associated city investment (ie the Pavillions).
I have nothing in principle against the basic plans, it will certainly be an improvement on the present situation and Brent has stated (on record) that the capacity will be enlarged if the club is successful. If you trust the man then there is no problem, if you don't then you wont trust any businessman because going by reputation he's the cream of the crop.

Final sentence - whilst there are certainly a great many businessmen who are significantly less trustworthy, the "by reputation he's the cream of the crop" is a bit of a wild and unqualified assertion and not one I would agree with.

Why, have you checked him out? I have

I have, I know several business people who have had dealings with him, I've heard some complimentary things, and I haven't said I don't trust him. I am merely challenging your suggestion that effectively businessmen don't come more trustworthy than James Brent. There are some I would trust more. That's all.

 

[with menace]

Forget web polls, the disenfranchised, dissolutioned Will vote with their feet and I think those on here predicting an 8-9-even 12,000 opening day gate are in for a very rude awakening.

 

[Stuart_C]

It doesn't matter a single jot what this poll or that poll says, does it? It all comes down to what the Council Planning Committee decide so let's not get our proverbial knickers in a twist over this again, shall we? :roll:

You're right, but I think the planners have already decided to push it through mostly because of associated city investment (ie the Pavillions).
I have nothing in principle against the basic plans, it will certainly be an improvement on the present situation and Brent has stated (on record) that the capacity will be enlarged if the club is successful. If you trust the man then there is no problem, if you don't then you wont trust any businessman because going by reputation he's the cream of the crop.

Final sentence - whilst there are certainly a great many businessmen who are significantly less trustworthy, the "by reputation he's the cream of the crop" is a bit of a wild and unqualified assertion and not one I would agree with.

Why, have you checked him out? I have

How did you do that brian? Private Eye got served with a court injunction for trying to look into his business dealings?

Back to your first point. Do you really still believe what James Brent says about Phase 2a? He may claim to not be an engineer and believe his "professionals" but that argument is starting to wear thin.

He states here on numerous occassions the horseshoe can be expanded.

Hopefully there will be some detail to back this up but if this is still as shown in presented Plan 2a as above why would they bother spending £1000/seat for severely restricted views they'll never sell?

I suspect he has no intention of being around long enough to have to honour this commitment like the "run by fans for fans" were happy to perpetuate the Phase 1 is modular and can be easily expanded myth.

If you don't want to listen to me try PAFC Safety Advisory Group. They aren't best pleased with the Planning Application with regard to Access Roads in particular, which will spell end of this scheme.

PCC Planning Letter 16/07

SAG considers that the proposals put forward by the developer are not ideal with
regard to emergency access, but could be accommodated by the emergency services as
long as the other issues outlined below are addressed in any planning consent.

1.  The northern road (Lyndhurst end) should be closed to general traffic at any
time when the stadium is in use by the general public.  This should be enforced
through a planning condition linked to the Safety Certificate.

2.  The bollards along the northern road will cause an issue with access and egress.  
SAG would like these bollards removed.  Retaining the bollards will have a
negative impact on the egress from the stadium and could require the capacity of
the stadium to be reduced.

3.  There is still a concern that there will be conflict between emergency vehicles
and pedestrians particularly along the northern road (Guide to Safety at Sports
Grounds 5th  Edition DCMS 6.8 Access and egress for emergency vehicles p59).  
This will need to be properly managed and linked to the Safety Certificate.  A
suitable planning condition should be considered.  If this matter is not addressed
at the planning application stage it would need to be addressed through the
Safety Certificate by reducing the capacity of the ground.

Point 1 will mean that the Southern "stealth road" around the hotel to the car park alongside Gilbert Lane will be required more often.

Not sure if Points 2 & 3 would require further capacity reduction below that dictated by the Highways Agency Objection.

Please note the following:

The SAG group includes representatives from a number of Council departments with
particular specialist responsibilities. The SAG members may wish to make additional
comments related specifically to their areas of responsibility.

The Chair of SAG (Peter Ford, Head of Development Management, PCC) and deputy
Chair (Guy Cooper, Building Control Marketing Leader, PCC) both have a conflict of
interest with regard to the planning application and the building regulations for the
Higher Home Park development and therefore neither are signatories to the comments
listed above.

First sign that PCC Planning may not be the pushover for the Akkeron / Tudor Evans pressure group many are hoping for, even before the Secretary of State Planning Inspectorate have their say.

Please feel free to put me on ignore as advised by the site manager as I won't be back to waste my breath for a while. Just felt this thread (and site) was sadly lacking in factual debate that it would have once promoted.

Goodnight..and may your god go with you....as a wise man once said.

 

[FordGreen]

There is, of course, another element to consider. The way things are going, by the time Argyle ever challenge for promotion to the EPL, that particular ship may also have sailed anyway. I think most would agree that the Prem is moving ever-closer to a closed shop cartel (either by design or accident) and that an American NFL set-up ie no promotion/relegation is not beyond the realms of probability in the next 10 years or so? Either that or the big 6/7 could well break away and join some sort of Euro Super league or whatever they want to call it. That would surely cause a seismic shift in the way domestic football is structured and have a knock-on effect on attendances etc. New HP may well be more than sufficient to meet our needs in the short-medium, if not long term.

 

[IJN]

Oh, so the thing was a completely pointless exercise either way then?! Make your flaming mind up O'Glorious Site Owner!!

Do you think a poll on the football club forum you own is pointless or meaningful? Or does it depend if it is in favour of the current chairman of the football club your football club forum represents? :think

Just so you understand, I'll make it clear for you, this is a Plymouth Argyle fans forum, looked at by 1000's, and contributed to by the low 100's.

Is it a pointless exercise, in as much as whatever comes out is meaningless? Yes.

If people enjoy a poll, then why not, but I don't pay any attention to such polls, nor would anyone else in their right mind.
As for me batting bat with the 52% figure to Richard (Esmer) it's banter, get it?

PASOTI is not real life, it's not that important, it's simply a forum where PAFC fans can do their thing, whatever it happens to be.

Regarding the O'Glorious bit, have a word with yourself pal, that's rather pathetic.

 

[Mike Greening]

Regarding the O'Glorious bit, have a word with yourself pal, that's rather pathetic.

I agree, we are Argyle NOT Chelsea. :lol:

 

[NorfolkGreen]

Before being so arrogant with your replies both lost pilgrim & ejh (not unusual for the later) I think you'll find that it's your merry band of men that keep bringing up polls & how they seem to somehow say that all & sundry are against the plans, most polls on here are pretty useless when used as a complete indicator as to the support either pro or against, & no I don't recall all other polls (which there were many in various disguises) being against the plans so we can disagree on that. Some may not like other people's opinion on the stand, I have absolutely NO issues with others having a different opinion it's only when they tar all with the same brush or try to bend the truth to suit them.

Edited to add lost pilgrim when you say things like fans being so blinkered against an alternative view, or words to that effect, you need to be aware of some like ejh who seem to spend large amounts of his time on here on every stand related thread trying to convince us, & trying hard I'll give him that, that he is right regarding the plans, the double standards from many as to who can say what & who is right is laughable. You guys go ahead & be against the plans, you are entitled to do so, some of us are happy with what's proposed so how about leaving it at that.

Where the stadium is concerned, I don't believe anyone on here is trying to convince anyone of anything. The ship has quite clearly sailed, and Argyle's long term ambitions have been left on shore...unfortunately.

This resignment might go some way to explain my "arrogance", but my main issue here is my inability to let utter bullsh*t go.

For instance, this gem from our Site Owner:

Half didn't want it? No true.

More than half on an internet website poll, did want it, but even that was less than 3% of the site's membership.

Perhaps your avatar gives a hint to why you would say that.

'Cheer up, it might not happen', as me old Gran used to say.

What exactly is our Site Owner trying to say here? On the one hand:

More than half on an internet website poll, did want it...

So therefore more than half the general fanbase? Well, perhaps not because...

...but even that was less than 3% of the site's membership

Oh, so the thing was a completely pointless exercise either way then?! Make your flaming mind up!

Do you think a poll on the football club forum you own is pointless or meaningful? Or does it depend if it is in favour of the current chairman of the football club your football club forum represents? :think:

Whlist I am here, did it really take you three days to come up with this...

Oh dear god not this again :facepalm: :sigh:

Sadly it looks like it

Profound contributions to this, admittedly rather pointless, thread, I am sure we will all agree! :thumbs:

Only just read the thread, apologies for the delay

 

[Green Rhino]

Mid table mediocrity would be just fine after the last few years of misery...

http://thetwounfortunates.com/ttu-go-predicting-a-club-by-club-league-2-preview/

 

[L G]

We aspire to mediocrity.

Anything other than relentlessly being in the bottom four would be nice.

:clap:
Last sunday I was stood on Glastonbury Tor. What a view.
I was moved to offer a prayer for various things in my life.
Despite my current member status this was my one for Argyle.
:thumbs: :scarf:

 

[with menace]

We aspire to mediocrity.

Anything other than relentlessly being in the bottom four would be nice.

:clap:
Last sunday I was stood on Glastonbury Tor. What a view.
I was moved to offer a prayer for various things in my life.
Despite my current member status this was my one for Argyle.
:thumbs: :scarf:

The Lord hath truly smiteth thee with the curse of green devotion that rewards devotees with naught but misery and woe

I am a pilgrim and a stranger
Travelling through this wearisome land
I've got a home in that yonder city, good Lord
And it's not, not made by hand
Naught but woe I says