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I think Labour has got it wrong

MickyD

Pasoti Donor
Dec 30, 2004
3,261
47
Brighton
Where do they dig their "leaders" from though?

Brown, (the wrong brother) Milliband, Corbyn (🤣) and now Mr Personality himself.

Don't even start on the deputy leaders.

Labour have been truly unelectable for many many years.
I've long had a theory that Ed Miliband is indirectly responsible for both Brexit and Trump.

If he hadn't barged in at the last minute and denied brother David the Labour leadership, I think Labour may well have won that next election. Instead we had the Dailymailiverse wet dream of Ed, who was mercilessly ridiculed in the press and duly lost. (He didn't help his own cause either, it must be said. Anyone remember that bloody stoopid tombstone-like stunt, for instance?)

With the best will in the world, he looked a dork and had a nasal whine; and, like it or not, politics is more about image these days than policies, although Labour seem to have forgotten that again since Blair - who is the only Labour leader since 1966 actually to win a working majority in a general election, let's not forget. (Harold Wilson became PM again in 1974 but Labour won that one by a paltry three seats.)

Wikipedia

A Labour government would, of course, have meant no referendum, let alone a Brexit - and I do firmly believe that the whole anti-immigration, anti-fact, anti-expert, anti-"elite", fake-populist rhetoric of the Brexiters struck a powerful chord across the Atlantic and elsewhere at just the right time, leading to... well, we all know what.
 

Frank Butcher

Foodbank Donor
Oct 9, 2003
3,605
55
Gairloch
As have the Tories but they still get elected. Could ask the same question of them. Johnson, May, Cameron really?

So you write a long essay(didn't bother reading it all life is too short) then say what's the point!. I.e. don't reply!

The point is BG that hughie entered this thread declaring he used to be a hardcore, loyal Labour supporter. A voter lost, similar I guess to many of the red wall voters in the last GE.

If your attitude is anything to go by, Labour will never win him back - or them.
 
Sep 6, 2006
11,607
476
The point is BG that hughie entered this thread declaring he used to be a hardcore, loyal Labour supporter. A voter lost, similar I guess to many of the red wall voters in the last GE.

If your attitude is anything to go by, Labour will never win him back - or them.
What are you on about? Anyway there's a game of football going on here in case you hadn't noticed and you still go on about Labour. You are obsessed,man
 
Nov 15, 2011
1,897
300
The point is BG that hughie entered this thread declaring he used to be a hardcore, loyal Labour supporter. A voter lost, similar I guess to many of the red wall voters in the last GE.

If your attitude is anything to go by, Labour will never win him back - or them.
Well I wonder when he was exactly a hardcore Labour fan. Not in the last 20 years from his articles he quoted.

He’s anti immigration anti doleys and the welfare state anti saving the planet , anti everything Labour have stood for since WW2 . Maybe he’s over 100 years old?
 
Jul 15, 2006
3,893
57
Kenton, Devon
...like it or not, politics is more about image these days than policies, although Labour seem to have forgotten that again since

This is very true, and that point was made on t'radio this morning when they said that Kier Starmer had the personality which would appeal to the judge, but not to the jury. Can't really argue with that.
 
Every so often there comes a point where substance is preferred to style in a leader, and competence over bluster. Johnson remains Mr Teflon at the moment, but governments tend to lose when the economy dives and, just a personal opinion, I think there are tougher times ahead as post-covid/Brexit inflation rises, the furlough ceases, the £20 income support ceases, and home heating costs continue to spike. Starmer’s moment will come.

Tories are smarter than Labour at staying in power, so I would expect them to ditch Johnson before the Covid Commission starts producing reports next year. Won’t be difficult, as he says (apparently to friends) that he only wants one term, then to make some real money. Interesting times ahead.
 
Jul 15, 2006
3,893
57
Kenton, Devon
It was interesting to hear this morning that one member of the Shadow Cabinet is reported to have said they believe the Corbyn / Momentum faction of the Labour Party could be on the cards of splitting away and forming a new political party. If this was true, then that would remove one headache for Sir Kier, who has made it clear that he believes getting into power is more important than party unity.
 
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Jan 20, 2004
761
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That would certainly suit a large section of the voting public and, as Frank pointed out, could pave the way towards some sort of a pact between Labour, Lib Dems and Greens that could also possibly attract more moderately minded Tories.
 
Nov 15, 2011
1,897
300
It was interesting to hear this morning that one member of the Shadow Cabinet is reported to have said they believe the Corbyn / Momentum faction of the Labour Party could be on the cards of splitting away and forming a new political party. If this was true, then that would remove one headache for Sir Kier, who has made it clear that he believes getting into power is more important than party unity.
Best for everybody, the loony left just get worse and worse, £15 per hour minimum wage was the cherry on the cake, can you imagine what levels of unemployment that would cause as businesses go bust.

Blair's mantra was always I don't care how I do it, even if it means getting the Sun on board, we can't change anything if we're not in power.

I heard someone from Starmer's camp say he doesn't mention Brexit because it's toxic and will look after itself, rejoining the single market will be something even most leavers want in due course.
 
Sep 6, 2006
11,607
476
Er - why are you here then?

Best for everybody, the loony left just get worse and worse, £15 per hour minimum wage was the cherry on the cake, can you imagine what levels of unemployment that would cause as businesses go bust.

Blair's mantra was always I don't care how I do it, even if it means getting the Sun on board, we can't change anything if we're not in power.

I heard someone from Starmer's camp say he doesn't mention Brexit because it's toxic and will look after itself, rejoining the single market will be something even most leavers want in due course.
But mkf if you get Blair 2 you have in effect a Tory government. What's the point of that?
 
Jul 15, 2006
3,893
57
Kenton, Devon
Best for everybody, the loony left just get worse and worse, £15 per hour minimum wage was the cherry on the cake, can you imagine what levels of unemployment that would cause as businesses go bust.

TBF I remember exactly the same arguments against the minimum wage when that was originally introduced: that businesses wouldn't be able to afford it, they'd go bust, there would be a rise in unemployment... It didn't happen.

And I don't think a minimum £15 p/h is a deal-breaker for the far left. I think they were probably more frustrated with the word coming out from Labour HQ which promised a minimum of £10 p/h but wouldn't commit to a higher level. I think, if Labour came into power, once they all say down a realistic figure of around £12 would be accepted all round (with maybe additional tax cuts or changes to the bandings to take some more pressure off the lower earners). Politics is all a game of poker, even within each political party.
 
Nov 15, 2011
1,897
300
TBF I remember exactly the same arguments against the minimum wage when that was originally introduced: that businesses wouldn't be able to afford it, they'd go bust, there would be a rise in unemployment... It didn't happen.

And I don't think a minimum £15 p/h is a deal-breaker for the far left. I think they were probably more frustrated with the word coming out from Labour HQ which promised a minimum of £10 p/h but wouldn't commit to a higher level. I think, if Labour came into power, once they all say down a realistic figure of around £12 would be accepted all round (with maybe additional tax cuts or changes to the bandings to take some more pressure off the lower earners). Politics is all a game of poker, even within each political party.
Its a question of degree, the minimum wage which the Tories fought against is a brilliant thing and is too low. However £15ph is almost £30k pa and is totally ridiculous and economically unsustainable.