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I think Labour has got it wrong

Nov 15, 2011
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Daz mate when it comes to looking silly we all look up to you after your classic the other day when you seethed about people discussing politics on the internet whilst discussing politics on the internet, that's one for the dinner parties.
 

Daz

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Daz mate when it comes to looking silly we all look up to you after your classic the other day when you seethed about people discussing politics on the internet whilst discussing politics on the internet, that's one for the dinner parties.
Don’t worry mate, you’ve lined yourself up far better than I ever could.

I post on here to give a different opinion, you seem to spend your life arguing on Twitter and here telling everyone that they are wrong.
 
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Because the question was asked was rayner right to call Johnson scum and I explained why I thought she was.

you haven’t even bothered to read the thread have you but are just obsessed with me. Give it a rest

Give it a rest? I've called you out once regarding your obsession with Johnson, Trump and Farage. You seem very very sensitive when there's criticism of your posts.

What do you think of Starmer's essay and when you answer try not to mention Johnson, Trump or Farage?
 
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Give it a rest? I've called you out once regarding your obsession with Johnson, Trump and Farage. You seem very very sensitive when there's criticism of your posts.

What do you think of Starmer's essay and when you answer try not to mention Johnson, Trump or Farage?
Jeez you never criticise my posts you just criticise me, I mention trump, farage and johnson where they are relevant to the discussion precisely as above when someone asked whether Rayner's comments on Johnson are justified. But rather than discuss this you just get furious with me cos I've dissed your heroes and you call me names.

Back on topic if we can please. I haven't read Starmer's essay though I've heard summaries which sound reasonable if rather uninspiring. In my opinion if Starmer, who is a decent intelligent honest man, can't take on the opposition in a more robust way I think his days are numbered. Rayner has her weaknesses but this isn't Cameron where Starmer would be effective this is Johnson (humble apologies for saying his name) and she might just be the right fit as strong women terrify him.
 

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Jeez you never criticise my posts you just criticise me, I mention trump, farage and johnson where they are relevant to the discussion precisely as above when someone asked whether Rayner's comments on Johnson are justified. But rather than discuss this you just get furious with me cos I've dissed your heroes and you call me names.

Back on topic if we can please. I haven't read Starmer's essay though I've heard summaries which sound reasonable if rather uninspiring. In my opinion if Starmer, who is a decent intelligent honest man, can't take on the opposition in a more robust way I think his days are numbered. Rayner has her weaknesses but this isn't Cameron where Starmer would be effective this is Johnson (humble apologies for saying his name) and she might just be the right fit as strong women terrify him.

My heroes? Lol.
I'm not furious with you, I just feel sorry for you for wasting so much time and energy arguing with everyone each day.
 

GreenThing

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You’ve never called anyone childish on here then?
 
Nov 15, 2011
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You’ve never called anyone childish on here then?
Blimey the 4th one joins in with nothing to say about what we’re discussing. if only this site had mods.

I don’t think I’ve ever called anyone childish on here though I have asked people to stop acting in a childish way by resorting to name calling rather than discussing the issue.

what do you think about this issue green thing?
 

KeithB

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My point was this is an opinions forum and we are discussing the Labour Party and Rayner's use of language which I explained why I thought was justified. We are not discussing me.

Both your and Keith's remarks were nothing to do with the issues but your negative view of me. That is not what this forum or thread is about and you're just wasting everybody's time. Forget about the fact that you don't like my views and try sticking to discussing the issues. The fact that Keith was clearly upset that I gave an accurate and verifiable description of his hero Boris is unfortunate, and I would be happy to debate that with him, but you just seem to want to talk about me, which while flattering, is not the point of the thread.

Now do either of you have any contributions to make about the Labour Party or Rayner's remarks?
Just to clarify, I was/am not clearly upset and have never voted Tory in my life.
 

GreenThing

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Blimey the 4th one joins in with nothing to say about what we’re discussing. if only this site had mods.

I don’t think I’ve ever called anyone childish on here though I have asked people to stop acting in a childish way by resorting to name calling rather than discussing the issue.

what do you think about this issue green thing?
You likened me to your 5yr old daughter when I was discussing an issue.
 
Aug 12, 2010
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Labour ceased to represent the workers a long time ago. I used to be hard core Labour.

Starmer on the Andrew Marr show this morning saying its wrong to say only women have a cervix WTF ?

Labour today are the benefits and immigrants party, waiting in the wings to spend loads of money we dont have. All based on the idea that we are one of the richest nations, a dubious idea, based on GDP.

GDP is a measurement of all financial transactions including property sales, multiplied by velocity, so fill the country up with immigration ( all parties do this to be fair ) and ramp up house prices and rents, voila, GDP soars. Except everyone is worse off with wage suppression and high accommodation charges.
With a lax interest rate policy ( continued by the Cons ) Brown made sure home ownership would become unnaffordable to the average worker, hoping to increase the client state of the Labour Party by disenfranchising a generation from property ownership whilst his wealthier public sector voter boomer mates gobbled up all the first time buyer property for buy to let.
He also abolished the lowest rate tax band of 10 pence around 2008, increasing the tax take on the poorest workers I remember a mate saying he would never vote Labour again on the back of that, and thats when the penny started to drop for me. His crowning glory was deregulating banking whilst London was the centre of the Credit Derivative market, that market blew up and nearly took down the world financial systerm in 2008, and will take it down by 2030's.
Then they left Britain skint. Look at borrowing during the Osbourne era, UK had to borrow more cash in 10 years than we had borrowed in the previous 300 to pay for a scaled back version of the Labour agenda. Now people called that "Austerity" and they may have their reasons, but really the question I have is how much do you think the government should have borrowed then ? And if you think taxing the better off should have been the way forward, taxing the rich and the corporations more does not really much increase the tax take, its been well demonstrated. When A. Darling increased the tax on the richest earners to 50p in the pound ( thats higher than communist China ) it did not increase HMRC revenues on balance. look at all the skint socialist regimes like France and Spain, they try that tactic and end up with 40 -50 % youth unemployment.
Look at Ireland that was nearly a third world country in the 70's ( i am of Irish extraction ), they DECREASED corp tax, next thing you know all the biggies, eventually even microsoft, apple , disney, all want to do business in Ireland, inside 30 years people were leaving the UK to get a job in Ireland.
At least Bozo made sure the minimum wage went up above inflation and moved the tax threshold up to 12.5 k, about 25% higher than where it was under Labour. Thats the sort of action workers wanted to see.
People took note of the Labour partys slide into a racist, rich hating, communist disgrace and given the choice between a posh blond haired liar offering to restore soveriegnty and democracy and a Marxist terrorist lover, voted accordingly.
The current govt are a shambles in my opinion, the big issue facing us for some time ( about 20 years ) is energy policy and they are failing to get real. Labour also ignorant in this area. We need nuclear and we need it yesterday.
We need coal fired back up if required. We need a new grid. There is right now a possibility of print and spend on INFRASTRUCTURE not benefits, but soon that window will close, eg when America ceases printing or when the bond market says we want more intrest payments. From that point on, govts cant really borrow. The implications are grim.
I do have an interest in economics, I have to say the future for the West is dire, a lot to do with currency debasement and lack of a long term energy strategy, and the erosion of democracy. But hey, apparently now we all have cervixes so everythings fine.
.
 
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On the above point some figures re immigration from Migration Watch
  • According to the latest estimates by the Office for National Statistics (ONS), net migration from overseas to the UK in the year ending March 2020 totalled 313,000 - the highest in four years and approaching the all-time record of 331,000 in the year to March 2015.
  • Total long-term immigration by those of all citizenships (715,000), and total immigration by non-UK citizens (633,000) were both at the highest levels ever recorded.
  • Net migration to the UK from outside the EU nearly tripled since the year to March 2013 (when it was 106,000) to its highest level ever - 316,000.
Immigration has gone up more under the Tories than ever under Labour and remember the tripling of non EU immigration since 2013 were people not one of which they had to let in and largely unskilled workers from the 3rd world.

Regarding debt and spending there's the laughable claim that the tories came in and fixed labour's spending spree. In the name of austerity. Since the Tories came into power in 2010, the national debt has more than doubled. It now stands at more than £2 trillion. They have increased the national debt more than every Labour Government combined.

Think of this way, you've got a £250k mortgage and your lender says look for the next 10 years no going out, new cars or holidays, you have to tighten your belt and we'll work away at your mortgage. You scrimp and scrape for 10 years and you come back and he says oh sorry you've now got a £500k mortgage.
 
Apr 15, 2004
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So BG, may I ask what you thought about Starmer’s essay? I‘m really struggling to get an opinion from anyone on here with left leaning tendencies. Yours are certainly among the strongest so I’m interested in your opinion.

And what do you make of Rayner’s posturing lately?
Are you really surprised that people are less than excited about reading a 12 000 word political essay by the leader of the opposition years before any election is likely? Blimey, many would call me a political nerd but I'm b'ggered if will read it all. Like most with an interest though I read second-hand summaries and comments in the press. Critics were accusing him of lacking clarity and not stating what he actually wants and just grandstanding. Well now they have a 12,000 word essay to chew on ..... so now they're saying he's a head-in-the-clouds intellectual out of touch with normal people. You can't have it both ways!

Based on the summaries it seems he is saying exactly the sort of things I'd expect and would broadly support. He is strongly in favour of a mixed economy of both private and public sector. He seeks to reassure that he supports private business that he calls "a force for good in society" ....BUT... emphasises they must "play by the rules" and Labour will not be blindly led by market forces. He contrasts that with Tory sleaze of handing public contracts to dubious Tory donors. By "playing by the rules" he will put a stop to exploitative practices like 'fire and re-hire' and ensure rights like sick pay and parental leave are available from day one. The minimum wage will be significantly increased.

There seems to be a lot there that squarely appeals to the centre and centre-left. He clearly thinks Brexit has been badly "botched" (who'd have guessed eh?) and without specifics will seek to minimise the effects to reduce red-tape which implies moving towards EU rules. Apparently Dianne Abbot is upset about the lack of clear statement to renationalise the utilities.

There's a lot more - nothing I can see I object to and the overall tone I'd heartily support. You may call it "vanilla" - but doesn't that just mean rational, calculated and dare I say 'sensible'?