How Big A Club Is Argyle?

[Manchester Green]

The only clubs who think we're "big" are in this division, and if we're down here for more than a couple of years they'll stop thinking that.

The vast majority of fans can't be arsed looking at "potential" or "catchment area". If Northampton made it to the Premiership, they too would probably be able to attract 20000 fans regularly.

We're about the 50th biggest club in the country, which is nothing to be ashamed of, but we're no "big club".

I think that underestimates us somewhat – Plymouth is bigger than Northampton with a much greater (uncontested) catchment. We suffer from our History though – a few years of success would transform us but the transformation would become apparent years later i.e. when the ‘habit’ has formed and the kids take their kids. Norwich and Southampton had poxy crowds when I was growing up and were considered small fry – but after periods of success they’re now ‘big’ compared to us, not to mention the effect of smart new stadia. What about Blackpool ? 10 years from now they’ll be getting gates they could barely dream of a few years ago even if they’re at the same level. If Bolton, Blackburn, Wigan, Norwich, Swansea can operate in the Prem with 20k+ crowds (well maybe not quite Wigan) then I'm sure Argyle could. If that ever happened even for a few years then if we returned to say L1 or L2 I’d bet we’d regularly attract much bigger crowds than we do now.

Don't bother mate,you're wasting your breath.It just won't sink in,unfortunately.

Nah, that sunk in, he has a valid point. A few years of success would wake the area up, and that's a very valid point about Norwich and Saints.

The problem is we can't factor in that success until it actually happens, there is no point in us saying "a few years of success then we'll be a big club". Until then I think 50th is a fair enough take on our size (top six in league one). Our local rivals mock us for our boasts about our catchment area, with decent enough reason - such boasts make me cringe a bit.

 

[Greenskin]

The only clubs who think we're "big" are in this division, and if we're down here for more than a couple of years they'll stop thinking that.

The vast majority of fans can't be arsed looking at "potential" or "catchment area". If Northampton made it to the Premiership, they too would probably be able to attract 20000 fans regularly.

We're about the 50th biggest club in the country, which is nothing to be ashamed of, but we're no "big club".

I think that underestimates us somewhat – Plymouth is bigger than Northampton with a much greater (uncontested) catchment. We suffer from our History though – a few years of success would transform us but the transformation would become apparent years later i.e. when the ‘habit’ has formed and the kids take their kids. Norwich and Southampton had poxy crowds when I was growing up and were considered small fry – but after periods of success they’re now ‘big’ compared to us, not to mention the effect of smart new stadia. What about Blackpool ? 10 years from now they’ll be getting gates they could barely dream of a few years ago even if they’re at the same level. If Bolton, Blackburn, Wigan, Norwich, Swansea can operate in the Prem with 20k+ crowds (well maybe not quite Wigan) then I'm sure Argyle could. If that ever happened even for a few years then if we returned to say L1 or L2 I’d bet we’d regularly attract much bigger crowds than we do now.

Don't bother mate,you're wasting your breath.It just won't sink in,unfortunately.

Nah, that sunk in, he has a valid point. A few years of success would wake the area up, and that's a very valid point about Norwich and Saints.

The problem is we can't factor in that success until it actually happens, there is no point in us saying "a few years of success then we'll be a big club". Until then I think 50th is a fair enough take on our size (top six in league one). Our local rivals mock us for our boasts about our catchment area, with decent enough reason - such boasts make me cringe a bit.

But surely it's the failure to fulfil the potential [bleddy word again] that is cringeworthy and embarassing,rather than acknowledging the fact [and 1.6 million people within a 90 minute drive IS a fact] that a large catchment area exists?

 

[Manchester Green]

The only clubs who think we're "big" are in this division, and if we're down here for more than a couple of years they'll stop thinking that.

The vast majority of fans can't be arsed looking at "potential" or "catchment area". If Northampton made it to the Premiership, they too would probably be able to attract 20000 fans regularly.

We're about the 50th biggest club in the country, which is nothing to be ashamed of, but we're no "big club".

I think that underestimates us somewhat – Plymouth is bigger than Northampton with a much greater (uncontested) catchment. We suffer from our History though – a few years of success would transform us but the transformation would become apparent years later i.e. when the ‘habit’ has formed and the kids take their kids. Norwich and Southampton had poxy crowds when I was growing up and were considered small fry – but after periods of success they’re now ‘big’ compared to us, not to mention the effect of smart new stadia. What about Blackpool ? 10 years from now they’ll be getting gates they could barely dream of a few years ago even if they’re at the same level. If Bolton, Blackburn, Wigan, Norwich, Swansea can operate in the Prem with 20k+ crowds (well maybe not quite Wigan) then I'm sure Argyle could. If that ever happened even for a few years then if we returned to say L1 or L2 I’d bet we’d regularly attract much bigger crowds than we do now.

Don't bother mate,you're wasting your breath.It just won't sink in,unfortunately.

Nah, that sunk in, he has a valid point. A few years of success would wake the area up, and that's a very valid point about Norwich and Saints.

The problem is we can't factor in that success until it actually happens, there is no point in us saying "a few years of success then we'll be a big club". Until then I think 50th is a fair enough take on our size (top six in league one). Our local rivals mock us for our boasts about our catchment area, with decent enough reason - such boasts make me cringe a bit.

But surely it's the failure to fulfil the potential [bleddy word again] that is cringeworthy and embarassing,rather than acknowledging the fact [and 1.6 million people within a 90 minute drive IS a fact] that a large catchment area exists?

Half that, yeah. But it does sound a bit deluded of us. There're plenty of clubs with decent catchment areas who we wouldn't give a second thought to as a good sized or potentially good-sized club, like Wrexham and Carlisle, any of the Lincolnshire clubs. Until we finally hit that success, any talk of catchment area seems a bit daft. We are one of the biggest clubs in this division, though, arguably the biggest.

 

[TCM]

ive been 30,000 plus crowds at HP and if we had man u,arsenal,liverpool and the like coming down here every other saturday then the answer would be yes,,,,

 

[Born a Janner]

... We're by far the greatest team the world has ever seen... & it's Plymouth Argyle, Plymouth Argyle FC ...


we can only hope & dream, but in reality we're just about average, with a promise of greatness drowned in mediocrity.

 

[Shane Harris]

Sub wannabees.

I honestly think we had our chance and blew it when Holloway flounced off to Leicester.

I fully support living within our means but expect that approach to see us as a mid table league one side at best and for us that is probably right.

That said i think full time professional football will be restricted to the top two leagues only with the rest being semi professional within the next 5 years or so.

All clubs at our level are cutting back and quite right too but that will only lead to a steady decline for the majority.

Holloway left us fairly early in the season, and only in 7th.

At around the same point in the next season (November 2008-2009) Sturrock had us in the play-offs.

Then we lost to Blackpool (I think it was them anyway) and went on a 20 game horror run. I'd like to know what caused that run, whether it was just a poor team, or something going on behind the scenes. I think it could have been the latter, because we went from looking like genuine promotion contenders to relegation fodder very quickly.

So no, I don't think losing Holloway was to blame for our demise. Holloway did alright, but was only around for a year and a couple of months, and managed to drag Pulis' team that finished 14th up to 11th - hardly a magnificent achievement worth singing from the hilltops about. At the same point in the next season with a supposedly weaker team, Sturrock had us in the play-offs. But then it all went wrong.

I don't say that Holloway going blew our chance i say that was when we had the chance.It really was there at that time for us to do a Blackpool (ironically) and my understanding is that the board at that time bottled it.

 

[Tugboat]

The higher we go the smaller we get :lol:

So true

 

[marin(er)]

I think we have to remember the average wage people earn in our area , far less than anywhere else in the country.This makes it far more difficult to commit money to support a football team.Strong league one would be good , with a smaller admission price.

Income distribution across UK regions
Office for National Statistic 2007 [2]
UK Region Gross Income
London £27,868
South East England £21,109
East Anglia £19,469
Scotland £19,282
North West England £19,236
West Midlands £18,801
South West England £18,629
Yorkshire & the Humber £18,614
East Midlands £18,321
Wales £17,651
North East England £17,594

This argument has been used before in these debates and simply is not valid. Whilst not being too well placed we are by far not the worded paid either in he SW...

 

[phil thefluter24]

We will never be a "big" club whatever that is . To small & fickle a fan base. Have watched the pilgrims on & off since the Chisolm etc days & thus its always been

 

[third earl of jean]

Sub wannabees.

I honestly think we had our chance and blew it when Holloway flounced off to Leicester.

I fully support living within our means but expect that approach to see us as a mid table league one side at best and for us that is probably right.

That said i think full time professional football will be restricted to the top two leagues only with the rest being semi professional within the next 5 years or so.

All clubs at our level are cutting back and quite right too but that will only lead to a steady decline for the majority.

Holloway left us fairly early in the season, and only in 7th.

At around the same point in the next season (November 2008-2009) Sturrock had us in the play-offs.

Then we lost to Blackpool (I think it was them anyway) and went on a 20 game horror run. I'd like to know what caused that run, whether it was just a poor team, or something going on behind the scenes. I think it could have been the latter, because we went from looking like genuine promotion contenders to relegation fodder very quickly.

So no, I don't think losing Holloway was to blame for our demise. Holloway did alright, but was only around for a year and a couple of months, and managed to drag Pulis' team that finished 14th up to 11th - hardly a magnificent achievement worth singing from the hilltops about. At the same point in the next season with a supposedly weaker team, Sturrock had us in the play-offs. But then it all went wrong.

Funny I always thought that drawing Arsenal in the cup did us no favours, it was around the time of the draw we started on the horror run, maybe the players took their eyes off the daily grind and couldn't get it going again. Probably not but who knows - it was a strange one.

On "bigness" i'd probably say a little above 50, maybe 44 or something but its hard to argue too much higher, because we just haven't finished above the lower reaches of the second tier very often in the last 60 years or so:-

http://www.plymouthargyle-mad.co.uk/lea ... ndex.shtml

The point about even a brief stint in the prem changing everything is a good one, and all things considered we should probably be "bigger" but as of now I don't think we are.

 

[Pogleswoody]

The higher we go the smaller we get :lol:

So true

like a helium balloon?? :scarf:

 

[Bezza]

The biggest clubs in our division in terms of potential support and perhaps success are Argyle, Bradford and Bristol Rovers. Oxford and Swindon just behind them. The first three could potentially average 20,000 in the premier league in a new stadium. Bradford get huge gates at home and its a very big city. They've never really fulfilled their potential.

Sheff W and West Ham arent as big as they think they are. Leeds are miles bigger than either in terms of support and potential IMO. Sheff W still arent getting much more than 20,000 at home in a promotion run in. Saints were beating that easily last season.....

 

[Gary Wills]

This mostly assumes, catchment references and so on, that the 'thirst' for football is the same across England. Which it's not.

 

[Moleman]

There is less money down here, at least to spend on going to the football there is. There is a lot of wealth that has arrived here by way of second home owners and retirees but very few of them will go to Home Park no matter what level we play at. The figures for average income are skewed by higher figures in the Bristol area and even Exeter is considered a wealthy town! But I'm also not convinced that this tells the full story and during our brief forays with success crowds have rocketed. Case in point, Season 2001/2002 started off with one side of Home Park open and a price of £8 per adult for terrace admission, I believe season tickets were around the £135 - £140 mark. Half way through the season and the new stands open and the ticket price after much speculation was revealed to be £15!!! Rumours speculated the price would be no more than £10 maybe £12 (the same as the Grandstand). For us ex Devonport enders, if we wanted to go back to that end we would have to either stump up a premium per match or another lump sum of around £80 - £100 to upgrade our season tickets.

I don't have to tell you what happened to attendances, but will anyway, they soared ever higher along with our league position, despite a near doubling of the entrance fee!

We do suffer from a lack of history, an FA Cup win, a League Cup win even would do wonders and a spell in the top flight would send perceptions of the club and our crowds to a level only dreamed about.

It's ironic that most now think of Blackpool as a small club, as in my early days of watching Argyle I remember playing them in the 3rd round of the FA Cup in January 1975, they were in the old 2nd division and were on our way to promotion from the 3rd. We pulled in over 23,000 to see us beat them 2-0 and it was considered a bit of a giant killing at the time. Blackpool then were regarded as a massive club that had fallen on hard times. In the 1950's they were up there with the best of them in the old 1st division and pulling in crowds of 40 to 50,000 in Bloomfield Road. I went there with Argyle in the late seventies and was amazed at the size of the ground especially the huge terraced 'Kop' behind the goal. It was split down the middle with home fans on one side and away fans on the other. It must have held around 18,000 fans on its own!
There was under 5,000 in the ground that day........