Willis88":3252ne20 said:
These posts should hung in a museum - it's like a Picasso painting, every time you read them they're wrong in a new way :lol: :lol: :lol:
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England v Germany
- Thread starter davie nine
- Start date
These posts should hung in a museum - it's like a Picasso painting, every time you read them they're wrong in a new way :lol: :lol: :lol:
If England do go all the way, nobody will be complaining.
However, to do so without utilising the attacking flair of the likes of Foden, Grealish, Sancho and Bellingham will be a bit disappointing and not do much to promote exciting and entertaining football on a national level.
I think MGM's post summed it up very well.
Meanwhile, whilst it was great to finally beat Germany in an elimination game, we are still only in the Quarter-Finals.
However, to do so without utilising the attacking flair of the likes of Foden, Grealish, Sancho and Bellingham will be a bit disappointing and not do much to promote exciting and entertaining football on a national level.
I think MGM's post summed it up very well.
Meanwhile, whilst it was great to finally beat Germany in an elimination game, we are still only in the Quarter-Finals.
A great win and throughly enjoyed. Somewhat spoiled for me by the cretinous and disrespectful booing of the German anthem - sadly a lot of England fans really are the absolute dregs of society.
I’ve just watched the goals again.
How to avoid being offside.
Sterling used his brain so well. As the ball was passed out to Shaw by Grealish he was in an offside position but he just eased back a fraction and was in a perfect position for Shaw’s cross.
Similarly, Kane made sure that he was fractionally onside as the ball came in from Grealish.
How to avoid being offside.
Sterling used his brain so well. As the ball was passed out to Shaw by Grealish he was in an offside position but he just eased back a fraction and was in a perfect position for Shaw’s cross.
Similarly, Kane made sure that he was fractionally onside as the ball came in from Grealish.
David Friio's mate":dkusl939 said:
I suspect that there would be a considerable overlap between those booing the German anthem and the players taking the knee. In the latter case, they were completely drowned out by the majority of fans applauding. It would have been a bit weird to try and cheer over a national anthem so the boos were clearer but I'd be pretty confident that it was a tiny minority of total cretins.
I think a lot of it is performative attention-seeking. Having watched England away a few times (and just watched games in England in the pub), we do seem to produce, as a country, a much higher proportion of these 'man children' who drink more than they can hold and think they're being ultra edgy and transgressive by booing foreign national anthems or singing the '10 German bombers' song. In a lot of cases it will come back to the fact that they don't have more than a few GCSEs or particularly great prospects in life, in a very status conscious social media age, and breaking these taboos creates the illusion that they 'do what they want' (it was quite fascinating how this briefly emerged as a football chant a few years ago).
It's one of those things where if we ignored it, it would probably go away. And it certainly isn't worth letting these people affect your enjoyment of England games.
demportdave":ib1lyjyz said:
Agree with you and MGM. Was thinking I was the only person in England distinctly underwhelmed by two late goals against a very average German side. We surrendered the initiative in the first 15 minutes and were difficult to watch with a back 5 in the first-half. Credit that we pushed the wing-backs on in the second-half but we were turgid at times with all that talent sat watching.
Everyone can congratulate Southgate on his tactics now it's worked out well, but had Muller put that chance away things may well have been very different. Fine margins indeed. Delighted we're through and have an even easier passage than in 2018 - let's hope we maximise the opportunity and show some quality at the same time.
I thought that we deserved the win. We got a little bit of luck with the Muller chance, but overall, I felt we created the better opportunities. Maguire was a rock. Luke Shaw was involved in both goals. Sterling scored again, and on this occasion, I felt his general performance was a lot better. Grealish coming on gave is some extra impetus. I thought Kane was largely anonymous until the goal, which was a poachers finish and hopefully that'll spur him on now. Were we scintillating? No. But we've just beaten Germany, actually scrap that, we've just beaten a top nation at a tournament, we've been waiting a long time for that, the mental barrier has been smashed. I watched the game at Home Park which was great fun, a really good atmosphere.
greenpilled":1izpbxr2 said:
Excellent post and you're right - I shouldn't let it affect my enjoyment but unfortunately it does, which is perhaps a character flaw on my part but there you have it.
I agree it's a real minority but, just like Argyle "fans" singing about the Taliban at Luton away, it sticks in the memory for me just as much as Grealish's wonderful movement and cross for the second goal.
Ok so this is a bit self indulgent, but i'm going to treat it as therapy, so please excuse the long winded nature of what follows.
I'm 47, live 250 miles from Plymouth, but (pre covid) would do 6 home games a year, 10-15 away games, so i'm a football fan, i played as a kid, was even offered money by Steve Evans as a teenager to play for him, so played the game to a reasonable level - therefore to anyone new meeting me, they would class me as someone who loves football. So why am i feeling so under-whelmed by watching England?
I dont want to be, i want to feel what others are feeling, but quite frankly had yesterdays game been an 8pm kick off, i'd have been switching to Love Island during the 2nd half.
I've tried to blame it on my age, but its not that, when Ben Stokes smashed the Aussies to all parts i was jumping around like a lunatic. I would profess to caring more about Argyle than England, but i'm sure that's the same for most football fans???
Maybe i've become middle class, my father is a Laira boy, my mother from Willesden, so working class roots, i cant stand opera, ballet or the boat race, so probably not that, although as someone else alluded to, my heart sinks when we boo an opposing teams national anthem. Even the simplest mind must understand that is motivation you are giving an opponent. Moronic doesn't even come close.
So what is it? I've got it down to two options, one is that we are just a dull side to watch, 5 defenders, two centre backs masquerading at centre midfielders, one of our three creative players yesterday has played left back 5 times this season. We have 12 midfielders/attackers in our squad, you wouldn't get change from £1 billion in the transfer market for these individuals, yet we play to our weakness and invite pressure, Stones and Pickford have been superb, however we all except, Everton and Man City fans accept, they have the potential to implode. When Southgate got the job, he was full of attacking promise and intent, Carpe Diem etc - yet now we are at home against 4 bang average sides (so far) we are playing with an element of fear. Of course his supporters will rightly say its a results based industry, the draw for the last three tournaments couldn't have been better if we'd handpicked it ourselves, so i dont understand why we aren't playing with freedom and trying to dominate sides. Every other nation would find room Grealish and Foden i'm sure of that.
In saying all of that, when i watch Argyle, of course i want to be entertained, but always happy for a scrappy 1-0 win, so is it double standards on my part, which perhaps leads me onto my far more complex other option.
Maybe i've had enough of being robbed or taken for a mug. By that i mean the sport in general, FA, UEFA, Fifa, Sky, BT - they spend so much time trying to find ways of me (us) funding their lifestyles and sucking the blood out of the game, that i demand to be entertained for my dollar. This tournament for an example, what a farce, 24 teams qualify, then only 8 getting knocked out - thats not for the good of the sport, its to the detriment of it. The Qatar world cup on the horizon, will our players be shot for taking the knee? Or if we are so strong willed about discrimination will we pull out - but a world cup in Qatar? Sky trying to sell Burnley v Crystal Palace for £9.99, the top clubs sticking two fingers at everyone else and making their own league (dont think they wont look to do it again), the EFL allowing Arsenal B in cup competitions, Wembley charging £80+ for a friendly then £20 for a hot dog and lager, none of this is in the interest of football. Liverpool and Man Utd, two titans of the game, two traditional football heartlands, the working class game, yet the locals are getting priced out of season tickets by companies buying tickets and giving them to customers or foreign tourists.
If you take people for mugs, eventually some will reach a breaking point and maybe thats me, i watch England with a "this better be good" mindset, rather than i hope we win and as such its killed my enjoyment, for all of yesterdays great result and no one would doubt beating Germany 2-0 in any tournament is a wonderful thing, i still cannot get over the first 75 tedious minutes when watching paint dry would have been better for my health.
I'm sorry to those who read this and think "what a ****" as i say its a genuine attempt to find out why i dont care when everything says i should, i'd love my sons to see England win a tournament, but if happens i'd like them to see me enjoy it too, instead of wondering why Dad isn't bothered. I watched the scenes on the news of Home Park, great to see the love and enthusiasm, i'm jealous to a degree, why dont i care like that anymore?
I'm 47, live 250 miles from Plymouth, but (pre covid) would do 6 home games a year, 10-15 away games, so i'm a football fan, i played as a kid, was even offered money by Steve Evans as a teenager to play for him, so played the game to a reasonable level - therefore to anyone new meeting me, they would class me as someone who loves football. So why am i feeling so under-whelmed by watching England?
I dont want to be, i want to feel what others are feeling, but quite frankly had yesterdays game been an 8pm kick off, i'd have been switching to Love Island during the 2nd half.
I've tried to blame it on my age, but its not that, when Ben Stokes smashed the Aussies to all parts i was jumping around like a lunatic. I would profess to caring more about Argyle than England, but i'm sure that's the same for most football fans???
Maybe i've become middle class, my father is a Laira boy, my mother from Willesden, so working class roots, i cant stand opera, ballet or the boat race, so probably not that, although as someone else alluded to, my heart sinks when we boo an opposing teams national anthem. Even the simplest mind must understand that is motivation you are giving an opponent. Moronic doesn't even come close.
So what is it? I've got it down to two options, one is that we are just a dull side to watch, 5 defenders, two centre backs masquerading at centre midfielders, one of our three creative players yesterday has played left back 5 times this season. We have 12 midfielders/attackers in our squad, you wouldn't get change from £1 billion in the transfer market for these individuals, yet we play to our weakness and invite pressure, Stones and Pickford have been superb, however we all except, Everton and Man City fans accept, they have the potential to implode. When Southgate got the job, he was full of attacking promise and intent, Carpe Diem etc - yet now we are at home against 4 bang average sides (so far) we are playing with an element of fear. Of course his supporters will rightly say its a results based industry, the draw for the last three tournaments couldn't have been better if we'd handpicked it ourselves, so i dont understand why we aren't playing with freedom and trying to dominate sides. Every other nation would find room Grealish and Foden i'm sure of that.
In saying all of that, when i watch Argyle, of course i want to be entertained, but always happy for a scrappy 1-0 win, so is it double standards on my part, which perhaps leads me onto my far more complex other option.
Maybe i've had enough of being robbed or taken for a mug. By that i mean the sport in general, FA, UEFA, Fifa, Sky, BT - they spend so much time trying to find ways of me (us) funding their lifestyles and sucking the blood out of the game, that i demand to be entertained for my dollar. This tournament for an example, what a farce, 24 teams qualify, then only 8 getting knocked out - thats not for the good of the sport, its to the detriment of it. The Qatar world cup on the horizon, will our players be shot for taking the knee? Or if we are so strong willed about discrimination will we pull out - but a world cup in Qatar? Sky trying to sell Burnley v Crystal Palace for £9.99, the top clubs sticking two fingers at everyone else and making their own league (dont think they wont look to do it again), the EFL allowing Arsenal B in cup competitions, Wembley charging £80+ for a friendly then £20 for a hot dog and lager, none of this is in the interest of football. Liverpool and Man Utd, two titans of the game, two traditional football heartlands, the working class game, yet the locals are getting priced out of season tickets by companies buying tickets and giving them to customers or foreign tourists.
If you take people for mugs, eventually some will reach a breaking point and maybe thats me, i watch England with a "this better be good" mindset, rather than i hope we win and as such its killed my enjoyment, for all of yesterdays great result and no one would doubt beating Germany 2-0 in any tournament is a wonderful thing, i still cannot get over the first 75 tedious minutes when watching paint dry would have been better for my health.
I'm sorry to those who read this and think "what a ****" as i say its a genuine attempt to find out why i dont care when everything says i should, i'd love my sons to see England win a tournament, but if happens i'd like them to see me enjoy it too, instead of wondering why Dad isn't bothered. I watched the scenes on the news of Home Park, great to see the love and enthusiasm, i'm jealous to a degree, why dont i care like that anymore?
@VoR - I get where you're coming from.
I watch England in tournaments, rarely watch qualifiers and never watch friendlies - never in a million years now. Actually, it's got to the point where I hate international weeks disrupting the domestic campaigns. I do get the occasional burst of enthusiasm, usually just after the national anthem, but - and I don't know why or how it happened - I kind of fell out of love with the national team quite a while ago now.
I watch England in tournaments, rarely watch qualifiers and never watch friendlies - never in a million years now. Actually, it's got to the point where I hate international weeks disrupting the domestic campaigns. I do get the occasional burst of enthusiasm, usually just after the national anthem, but - and I don't know why or how it happened - I kind of fell out of love with the national team quite a while ago now.
I can’t explain why national sport is important to me, l just for some reason get emotionally connected to people representing our country.
I don’t know them. They don’t know me. Yet l feel a sense of pride and l enjoy watching a journey.
Whether it’s an Olympic cycle, a team World Cup sport or a player playing for thats sports highest accolade l end up getting emotionally involved.
You see the reason why l do it is because sport is about winning and losing. In fact mostly it’s about losing. So you feel the disappointment inside many times. Yesterday is a prime example for me. Defeat by Germany in knockout out stages numerous occasions. It hurts. Yet eventually you go again. Yesterday was for many their first feeling of not just seeing England beat Germany in a knockout tournament but seeing England beat one of the considered big footballing nations in tournament football. That’s why the euphoria we see has been let out. The same euphoria of beating Columbia on penalties as we finally won a game in a knockout tournament on penalties since against Spain in ‘96.
For me sport is about just isolated moments in history. That’s why you should enjoy them when they come around and they will always be rare due to the competitive nature of sports.
In cricket the years of seeing Australia kick our ass with Warne and Co. And then in 2005 see us beat them. Was a remarkable achievement. Until l then watched on tv the 2010/11 England team actually go one better and win a series in Australia. This then became superseded by watching England finally win a cricket World Cup on home soil in 2019.
In 2003 I finally saw an England team win a World Cup. What made it special was it was in Australia and against the Australians.
In 2012 we got to see one of the most remarkable days in sporting history with “super Saturday”. Unbelievable performances by athletes in a United Kingdom jersey.
I got to see a British (Scottish) guy win Wimbledon twice.
Now l know people harp on he is Scottish and the Olympics is a British team full of other people who aren’t English. Yet maybe l’m on my own here but l feel lm as much British, as l am English. I live on an island connected to other countries. My passport says lm British. I feel proud to be living with Welsh and Scottish people and l feel we have a certain uniqueness about us. The British Lions is a perfect example of bringing our countries together.
One of the greatest moments in my life was 1996. Seeing Argyle win at Wembley. A memory nobody can ever take away for me. Yes the Wimbledon defeat hurt, but l believe it’s the sporting moments that hurt that make those very unique, precious achievement even more wonderful to celebrate. And so when Argyle are successful it’s special because of what we have had to suffer as fans.
Maybe we should do better in sports, especially football. Yet there is something about being English and always hoping to see a World cup or Euros win in our lifetimes. It’s like a journey we are meant to go on. Just like all the other sports l mentioned above (and the many other great sporting English/British/European (with the Ryder Cup) moments l haven’t) and maybe it’s never meant to happen but it’s just part of being an England football fan. Yes we get fed up and frustrated but not much in this world can make you feel like sport does. Especially football. Worth cherishing moments like yesterday. For as much as it hurts when we lose, it’s something that’s gives us extra joy when we do well in sports.
We get frustrated about never winning a football tournament since ‘66. I understand that. Yet l think of great footballing nations like the Dutch who have never won a World Cup final and you look at the array of talent they have had over the years. It’s so difficult to be the best at something. You don’t just need to be great. You also need some luck. In 90 and 96 in those semi finals we just didn’t have the rub of the green. From Waddle’s shot that hit the post in ‘90 to Gazza’s extra time lunge in ‘96, which was inches away. We couldn’t of done much more. Yesterday we watched Muller go through on goal with Pickford to beat and somehow he unexplainably missed. Sport is just crazy and unexplainable. I would love to see our national team win a football tournament. Yet there is something about watching this team through the years that l feel it’s a story with maybe not a happy ending in my lifetime.
Despite that though, all l know is I love football. I love sport. Absolutely love it.
I don’t know them. They don’t know me. Yet l feel a sense of pride and l enjoy watching a journey.
Whether it’s an Olympic cycle, a team World Cup sport or a player playing for thats sports highest accolade l end up getting emotionally involved.
You see the reason why l do it is because sport is about winning and losing. In fact mostly it’s about losing. So you feel the disappointment inside many times. Yesterday is a prime example for me. Defeat by Germany in knockout out stages numerous occasions. It hurts. Yet eventually you go again. Yesterday was for many their first feeling of not just seeing England beat Germany in a knockout tournament but seeing England beat one of the considered big footballing nations in tournament football. That’s why the euphoria we see has been let out. The same euphoria of beating Columbia on penalties as we finally won a game in a knockout tournament on penalties since against Spain in ‘96.
For me sport is about just isolated moments in history. That’s why you should enjoy them when they come around and they will always be rare due to the competitive nature of sports.
In cricket the years of seeing Australia kick our ass with Warne and Co. And then in 2005 see us beat them. Was a remarkable achievement. Until l then watched on tv the 2010/11 England team actually go one better and win a series in Australia. This then became superseded by watching England finally win a cricket World Cup on home soil in 2019.
In 2003 I finally saw an England team win a World Cup. What made it special was it was in Australia and against the Australians.
In 2012 we got to see one of the most remarkable days in sporting history with “super Saturday”. Unbelievable performances by athletes in a United Kingdom jersey.
I got to see a British (Scottish) guy win Wimbledon twice.
Now l know people harp on he is Scottish and the Olympics is a British team full of other people who aren’t English. Yet maybe l’m on my own here but l feel lm as much British, as l am English. I live on an island connected to other countries. My passport says lm British. I feel proud to be living with Welsh and Scottish people and l feel we have a certain uniqueness about us. The British Lions is a perfect example of bringing our countries together.
One of the greatest moments in my life was 1996. Seeing Argyle win at Wembley. A memory nobody can ever take away for me. Yes the Wimbledon defeat hurt, but l believe it’s the sporting moments that hurt that make those very unique, precious achievement even more wonderful to celebrate. And so when Argyle are successful it’s special because of what we have had to suffer as fans.
Maybe we should do better in sports, especially football. Yet there is something about being English and always hoping to see a World cup or Euros win in our lifetimes. It’s like a journey we are meant to go on. Just like all the other sports l mentioned above (and the many other great sporting English/British/European (with the Ryder Cup) moments l haven’t) and maybe it’s never meant to happen but it’s just part of being an England football fan. Yes we get fed up and frustrated but not much in this world can make you feel like sport does. Especially football. Worth cherishing moments like yesterday. For as much as it hurts when we lose, it’s something that’s gives us extra joy when we do well in sports.
We get frustrated about never winning a football tournament since ‘66. I understand that. Yet l think of great footballing nations like the Dutch who have never won a World Cup final and you look at the array of talent they have had over the years. It’s so difficult to be the best at something. You don’t just need to be great. You also need some luck. In 90 and 96 in those semi finals we just didn’t have the rub of the green. From Waddle’s shot that hit the post in ‘90 to Gazza’s extra time lunge in ‘96, which was inches away. We couldn’t of done much more. Yesterday we watched Muller go through on goal with Pickford to beat and somehow he unexplainably missed. Sport is just crazy and unexplainable. I would love to see our national team win a football tournament. Yet there is something about watching this team through the years that l feel it’s a story with maybe not a happy ending in my lifetime.
Despite that though, all l know is I love football. I love sport. Absolutely love it.
Between tournaments my interest in England is fairly low, I don’t really watch friendlies or qualifiers, but during a tournament, I actually get more invested in England than I do in Argyle. I just love international tournaments, the drama and the tension, the way fans from all clubs come together to support the nation, non football fans etc as well, I just love it, and this is now genuinely our best chance in my lifetime to reach a final.
I guess thats the question Cobi, i didn't feel any drama or nerves, in fact it left me numb.
The Miracle at Medinah, still makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up, as does watching the Ben Stokes innings at Headingly. I love the drama of sport, in almost all of its forms, but for whatever reason the national football team has somehow dampened the fire in me and i dont know why.
Seeing your post and MGM's i can almost read the passion, me and my best mate dont watch England games together anymore, because like yesterday he called me at Half Time buzzing with tension, i nearly nodded off, it was dreadful, no obvious plan (other than not to concede), no entertainment, do desire to play proper football, i even googled when the back pass law was changed (1992 as it happens) - as we passed the ball back to Pickford 25-30 times, the law was supposed to make football more exciting, all its done is make goalkeepers better footballers (but thats not the point). His ridiculous positivity drives me up the wall and my negativity does that him. Yet i'm the one who'd think nothing of driving 500 miles in a day to watch my team, he rarely travels the 3 miles to Sixfields to watch his Northampton side. So of the two of us, i'm the one you'd class as a proper fan, but i just cant spark the fire and i dont know why.
The Miracle at Medinah, still makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up, as does watching the Ben Stokes innings at Headingly. I love the drama of sport, in almost all of its forms, but for whatever reason the national football team has somehow dampened the fire in me and i dont know why.
Seeing your post and MGM's i can almost read the passion, me and my best mate dont watch England games together anymore, because like yesterday he called me at Half Time buzzing with tension, i nearly nodded off, it was dreadful, no obvious plan (other than not to concede), no entertainment, do desire to play proper football, i even googled when the back pass law was changed (1992 as it happens) - as we passed the ball back to Pickford 25-30 times, the law was supposed to make football more exciting, all its done is make goalkeepers better footballers (but thats not the point). His ridiculous positivity drives me up the wall and my negativity does that him. Yet i'm the one who'd think nothing of driving 500 miles in a day to watch my team, he rarely travels the 3 miles to Sixfields to watch his Northampton side. So of the two of us, i'm the one you'd class as a proper fan, but i just cant spark the fire and i dont know why.
From roughly about 7 years of going to England away games, I can honestly say that the only away game where God save the Queen didn't get booed was in Prishtina in Kosovo anyone English was treated like demi gods.
Didn't hear any criticism on these boards of the Scotish fans booing our anthem last week? When we played at Hampden Park a few years ago it was deafening. Booing is not right at all but our own anthem is booed more often and loudly than the other way around.
I always remember Brian Moore the rugby union player who said something along the lines of... you never realise how much the English are hated until you travel the world and play in international games.
Anyway last night was absolutely wonderful at the end and that was the best atmosphere at the new Wembley. Quite enjoying the restricted capacity crowds, less queues and least it's the hard core fans, not the tourists who dilute the atmosphere and don't have much passion or interest in England.
Didn't enjoy the game at all, was way too nervous... felt the same in Moscow during the Colombia game at the World Cup. Roll on Saturday!
Great to see Argyle in the main BBC news as well! Green Army!
Didn't hear any criticism on these boards of the Scotish fans booing our anthem last week? When we played at Hampden Park a few years ago it was deafening. Booing is not right at all but our own anthem is booed more often and loudly than the other way around.
I always remember Brian Moore the rugby union player who said something along the lines of... you never realise how much the English are hated until you travel the world and play in international games.
Anyway last night was absolutely wonderful at the end and that was the best atmosphere at the new Wembley. Quite enjoying the restricted capacity crowds, less queues and least it's the hard core fans, not the tourists who dilute the atmosphere and don't have much passion or interest in England.
Didn't enjoy the game at all, was way too nervous... felt the same in Moscow during the Colombia game at the World Cup. Roll on Saturday!
Great to see Argyle in the main BBC news as well! Green Army!