England V Denmark

[Knibbsworth]

This “England were lucky” agenda is hilarious. More efforts than Denmark, more on target, more possession. Denmark also should have had several more yellows. A soft penalty? Perhaps but there was some contact. We are deserving finalists

So it doesn’t really matter if it was a penalty any more - if you’ve had more possession and shots on target you deserve the result anyway?

If England had lost to a penalty like that there would have been riots in the streets and death threats issued to the referee!

Seriously, for a second - contemplate losing to Italy on Sunday over a decision like that. Luke Shaw tracking Insigne and he just goes down. Footage inconclusive. Ref looks at VAR and gives it anyway. Because there was a minor brush of the hip, it has resulted in a grown man absolutely decking it, and that is fine because it’s the new normal in football

Imagine if in rugby, all it took to stop an opponent was a brush of the hip so minute that you can’t even see it on slow motion replays. Jonah Lomu could run straight through/over a 16 stone bloke with him arms wrapped around his waist trying to dump tackle him yet we are looking at that Sterling incident as a ‘definite penalty’?

I really can’t help but feel sorry for Denmark losing to a decision like that and I was praying it wouldn’t be the winning goal. I wanted England to score at least another one so I didn’t have to feel a little guilty winning on that goal.

The referee giving it with video footage felt like a corrupt piece of refereeing straight from the Japan World Cup.

 

[Metal Green Mickey]

Do you think Argentine people felt guilty when Mardonna handled the ball in the net and they went on to win the World Cup.

Or the match when Simeone play acted to help get Beckham sent off? Or when Sol Campbell’s goal was not given and disallowed.

Do you think Germany people felt guilty that Lampards goal was not given and they knocked us out?

Do you think Portuguese people felt guilty when Ronaldo got Rooney sent off and gave a wink at the tv camara.

Then in this tournament. Do you think Belgium people felt guilty getting that penalty against Italy just before half time for what was also a dive. Or Italy fans felt embrassed about Immobile diving for a penalty and laying there and getting up after they scored to celebrate.

If nobody has noticed, cheating or the darks arts, has been going on for years in football. If you think football teams play fair and square l wonder where people have been living. We played fair before and got beaten time and time again. We also won some games with dark arts. Micheal Owen has stated how easily he went down against Argentina.

The dark arts are here to stay. It happened 30 years ago. It happens now. Even slow motion replays can’t tell 100% whether it’s a foul or not. The fact you have to slow it down to the n’th degree and still sometimes are unsure. We talk about forwards diving. What about the shirt pulling in the box or the hugging of forward players by defenders on free kicks and corners.

Why on earth are we even surprised that these things exist in our game. It’s how teams unfortunately get advantages.

Remember when we play Wycombe. How everyone ripped into Ainsworth for time wasting. However l remember watching Lou Macari’s Stoke City team come down here years ago and do the same thing. It’s not great to see but every team does it. Maybe not as much as some but it still goes on. Countless times l saw Argyle do it last season. And not a murmur or a moan. It’s because it’s our team. Suddenly when we do it it we say how professional.

I enjoyed our win. I will enjoy the final whether we win or lose. I’ve waited since ‘86 to see an England team in the final of a knockout tournament. Now they are finally here. Enjoy every minute. You might not see it again in your lifetime.

Football is coming home :scarf:

 

[davie nine]

Excellent response to Knibsworth, Mickey.
I, really, don’t understand why it is not considered a penalty when the momentum of a skilful, rapid player like Sterling is halted by a ‘minor brush of the hip’. Actually, the contact was more than that, in my opinion, but if a player’s progress in the penalty area is interrupted by any contact it should be a penalty.
It doesn’t matter what Shearer or Peter Schmeichel think; the referee thought it was a penalty and he wasn’t persuaded differently by VAR.
Similarly, in an earlier incident, the referee decided that a minor touch on a defender’s leg by Kane was a foul just before he was tripped in the area.
‘A corrupt piece of refereeing’, ridiculous comment.

 

[greenpilled]

Excellent response to Knibsworth, Mickey.
I, really, don’t understand why it is not considered a penalty when the momentum of a skilful, rapid player like Sterling is halted by a ‘minor brush of the hip’. Actually, the contact was more than that, in my opinion, but if a player’s progress in the penalty area is interrupted by any contact it should be a penalty.
It doesn’t matter what Shearer or Peter Schmeichel think; the referee thought it was a penalty and he wasn’t persuaded differently by VAR.
Similarly, in an earlier incident, the referee decided that a minor touch on a defender’s leg by Kane was a foul just before he was tripped in the area.
‘A corrupt piece of refereeing’, ridiculous comment.

Yes, same... I don't think it was a bad decision. When you're running at speed it often only takes a slight contact to knock you off balance and I think that's what happened here. The replays were actually a bit misleading in that slowing it down you see the contact is very faint and don't appreciate how fast Sterling is going. It was enough to prevent him going through on goal without actually playing the ball, which for me is a pen.

 

[Mike Charlick]

And of course, we didn't score from the penalty. The winning goal was from open play, Kane quicker to the ball after the keeper failed to hold it.

 

[up the line]

Do you think Argentine people felt guilty when Mardonna handled the ball in the net and they went on to win the World Cup.

Or the match when Simeone play acted to help get Beckham sent off? Or when Sol Campbell’s goal was not given and disallowed.

Do you think Germany people felt guilty that Lampards goal was not given and they knocked us out?

Do you think Portuguese people felt guilty when Ronaldo got Rooney sent off and gave a wink at the tv camara.

Then in this tournament. Do you think Belgium people felt guilty getting that penalty against Italy just before half time for what was also a dive. Or Italy fans felt embrassed about Immobile diving for a penalty and laying there and getting up after they scored to celebrate.

If nobody has noticed, cheating or the darks arts, has been going on for years in football. If you think football teams play fair and square l wonder where people have been living. We played fair before and got beaten time and time again. We also won some games with dark arts. Micheal Owen has stated how easily he went down against Argentina.

The dark arts are here to stay. It happened 30 years ago. It happens now. Even slow motion replays can’t tell 100% whether it’s a foul or not. The fact you have to slow it down to the n’th degree and still sometimes are unsure. We talk about forwards diving. What about the shirt pulling in the box or the hugging of forward players by defenders on free kicks and corners.

Why on earth are we even surprised that these things exist in our game. It’s how teams unfortunately get advantages.

Remember when we play Wycombe. How everyone ripped into Ainsworth for time wasting. However l remember watching Lou Macari’s Stoke City team come down here years ago and do the same thing. It’s not great to see but every team does it. Maybe not as much as some but it still goes on. Countless times l saw Argyle do it last season. And not a murmur or a moan. It’s because it’s our team. Suddenly when we do it it we say how professional.

I enjoyed our win. I will enjoy the final whether we win or lose. I’ve waited since ‘86 to see an England team in the final of a knockout tournament. Now they are finally here. Enjoy every minute. You might not see it again in your lifetime.

Football is coming home :scarf:

You could even point to two specific incidents in this tournament itself involving Denmark, whose supporters are bombarding newspaper comments sections with cries of foul play.

Firstly, in the ill fated game against Finland, they missed a penalty which was 'won' (then missed) by Poulsen throwing himself over after the most fleeting of glances from a Finnish player and only after he'd thought about it for a split second then decided to go over.

Secondly, Damsgaard became the only player in the tournament (as far as I'm aware) to be booked for simulation when he threw himself over in the area against Belgium...as far as dives go that was a perfect 10.

The Stirling incident goes down in the 'seen them given' category. It's slightly ironic that the Danes think English players should stay on their feet at all times when, even in this tournament alone, they have shown themselves more than ready to con the referee if possible.

 

[Cobi Budge]

There was clear contact on Sterling, from not one, but two Denmark players, I actually felt there were two fouls. Slow motion replays also show that he didn't start to go down until the first contact. Nobody would be complaining if that were given as a free kick anywhere else on the pitch, or even if it was given as a penalty for any nation other than England. People are also failing to mention (or conveniently forgetting) the fact that the free kick Denmark scored from was even softer, they're failing to mention that Denmark players were illegally positioned when the free kick was taken, they're failing to mention that we probably should have had a penalty for another challenge on Kane, lastly they're failing to mention that Delaney managed to rack up 5 fouls (3 cynical) without collecting a booking whilst Harry Maguire was booked for jumping.

We deserved to win, we weren't lucky,

 

[Balham Green]

There was clear contact on Sterling, from not one, but two Denmark players, I actually felt there were two fouls. Slow motion replays also show that he didn't start to go down until the first contact. Nobody would be complaining if that were given as a free kick anywhere else on the pitch, or even if it was given as a penalty for any nation other than England. People are also failing to mention (or conveniently forgetting) the fact that the free kick Denmark scored from was even softer, they're failing to mention that Denmark players were illegally positioned when the free kick was taken, they're failing to mention that we probably should have had a penalty for another challenge on Kane, lastly they're failing to mention that Delaney managed to rack up 5 fouls (3 cynical) without collecting a booking whilst Harry Maguire was booked for jumping.

We deserved to win, we weren't lucky,

Generally agree with the rest Cobi but if the pen was against us would you say the same thing? Honestly?

 

[davie nine]

What is the definition of a ‘soft penalty’?
Do the ‘experts’ mean it should not have been a penalty or a ‘seen them given’?
2 defenders closed in on Sterling and, at least one, if not both, made some contact with him. At the pace he runs, it really does not take much contact to halt his progress. He, certainly, didn’t dive.
We are very fortunate to have players like Sterling, Grealish, Sancho, Foden, Saka who are skilful and confident enough to run at and outpace defenders so let’s enjoy this.
I think that, if the decision was against us, I would have accepted it.
Incidentally, there was a similar incident involving Sterling near the end of the Germany game and, in my opinion, that should also have been a penalty.

 

[GreenThing]

Totally agree with that Davie. I also thought that immediately before the penalty incident, a defender fouled Stirling by clipping his ankle just as he entered the box, but he rode that one out and continued his run.

 

[Knibbsworth]

What is the definition of a ‘soft penalty’?
Do the ‘experts’ mean it should not have been a penalty or a ‘seen them given’?
2 defenders closed in on Sterling and, at least one, if not both, made some contact with him. At the pace he runs, it really does not take much contact to halt his progress. He, certainly, didn’t dive.
We are very fortunate to have players like Sterling, Grealish, Sancho, Foden, Saka who are skilful and confident enough to run at and outpace defenders so let’s enjoy this.
I think that, if the decision was against us, I would have accepted it.
Incidentally, there was a similar incident involving Sterling near the end of the Germany game and, in my opinion, that should also have been a penalty.

I know I wouldn't have accepted it, it wasn't clear enough by any stretch even with VAR to decide a semi final of that magnitude.

Perhaps you need to look at your own English biases, because Roy Keane, Arsene Wenger and Jose Mourinho are just three people who disagreed with the decision.

What they have in common is that they have had a career playing, managing or analysing football at the top standard - and aren't swayed by the English hysteria.

I am stunned reading MGM's post condoning cheating. Shining lasers in Schmeichel's eyes and Maradona's handball. Maradona followed up his cheating by scoring one of the greatest goals ever seen and the controversial decision didn't decide the game. (Shilton said he would never forgive him for it and feels anger over those events to this day). Same with Lampard's goal that never was - we conceded 4 goals that day and lost by two. We can't blame the ref for that. This decision however directly cost Denmark a chance at reaching a final.

I was just disappointed that we won on such a soft decision. As I said if we lose by one goal to Italy on a decision that soft, we'll see how many of you accept it and clap them off the pitch.

Mickey, you bring up Wycombe as an example that it is perfectly OK to be dishonest and cheat, but they are near unanimously disliked by all of their opponents. No-one loses to them, witnesses the feigned injuries and timewasting and feels that is fine, it is part of football. They have absolutely no class or integrity as a football team, same with Lincoln and Brennan Johnson diving all over the place to win penalties. Fans wish those sides the worst and it leaves a bitter taste.

I don't think Sterling dived or cheated per se, but there is no conclusive angle of him receiving a shunt hard enough to cause him to fall over. I am not sure what modern defenders are meant to do when a player capable of great poise and balance can turn on a sixpence, but the merest brushing of shorts causes a collapse like that.

Is it soft? Is it cheating? Whatever it is it is nothing to be particularly proud of. You want to get to a final and win it on merit, not on highly dubious officiating that the rest of Europe is shaking their head at.

 

[Balham Green]

What is the definition of a ‘soft penalty’?
Do the ‘experts’ mean it should not have been a penalty or a ‘seen them given’?
2 defenders closed in on Sterling and, at least one, if not both, made some contact with him. At the pace he runs, it really does not take much contact to halt his progress. He, certainly, didn’t dive.
We are very fortunate to have players like Sterling, Grealish, Sancho, Foden, Saka who are skilful and confident enough to run at and outpace defenders so let’s enjoy this.
I think that, if the decision was against us, I would have accepted it.
Incidentally, there was a similar incident involving Sterling near the end of the Germany game and, in my opinion, that should also have been a penalty.

I know I wouldn't have accepted it, it wasn't clear enough by any stretch even with VAR to decide a semi final of that magnitude.

Perhaps you need to look at your own English biases, because Roy Keane, Arsene Wenger and Jose Mourinho are just three people who disagreed with the decision.

What they have in common is that they have had a career playing, managing or analysing football at the top standard - and aren't swayed by the English hysteria.

I am stunned reading MGM's post condoning cheating. Shining lasers in Schmeichel's eyes and Maradona's handball. Maradona followed up his cheating by scoring one of the greatest goals ever seen and the controversial decision didn't decide the game. (Shilton said he would never forgive him for it and feels anger over those events to this day). Same with Lampard's goal that never was - we conceded 4 goals that day and lost by two. We can't blame the ref for that. This decision however directly cost Denmark a chance at reaching a final.

I was just disappointed that we won on such a soft decision. As I said if we lose by one goal to Italy on a decision that soft, we'll see how many of you accept it and clap them off the pitch.

Mickey, you bring up Wycombe as an example that it is perfectly OK to be dishonest and cheat, but they are near unanimously disliked by all of their opponents. No-one loses to them, witnesses the feigned injuries and timewasting and feels that is fine, it is part of football. They have absolutely no class or integrity as a football team, same with Lincoln and Brennan Johnson diving all over the place to win penalties. Fans wish those sides the worst and it leaves a bitter taste.

I don't think Sterling dived or cheated per se, but there is no conclusive angle of him receiving a shunt hard enough to cause him to fall over. I am not sure what modern defenders are meant to do when a player capable of great poise and balance can turn on a sixpence, but the merest brushing of shorts causes a collapse like that.

Is it soft? Is it cheating? Whatever it is it is nothing to be particularly proud of. You want to get to a final and win it on merit, not on highly dubious officiating that the rest of Europe is shaking their head at.

You say Sterling didn't dive but then allude to cheating! Make up your mind! I thought it was a dive but we should have had a pen earlier so don't feel guilty enjoying the moment.
AND the Maradona handball DID decide the game. You forgotten the score already?

 

[PL2 3DQ]

 

[Metal Green Mickey]

What is the definition of a ‘soft penalty’?
Do the ‘experts’ mean it should not have been a penalty or a ‘seen them given’?
2 defenders closed in on Sterling and, at least one, if not both, made some contact with him. At the pace he runs, it really does not take much contact to halt his progress. He, certainly, didn’t dive.
We are very fortunate to have players like Sterling, Grealish, Sancho, Foden, Saka who are skilful and confident enough to run at and outpace defenders so let’s enjoy this.
I think that, if the decision was against us, I would have accepted it.
Incidentally, there was a similar incident involving Sterling near the end of the Germany game and, in my opinion, that should also have been a penalty.

I know I wouldn't have accepted it, it wasn't clear enough by any stretch even with VAR to decide a semi final of that magnitude.

Perhaps you need to look at your own English biases, because Roy Keane, Arsene Wenger and Jose Mourinho are just three people who disagreed with the decision.

What they have in common is that they have had a career playing, managing or analysing football at the top standard - and aren't swayed by the English hysteria.

I am stunned reading MGM's post condoning cheating. Shining lasers in Schmeichel's eyes and Maradona's handball. Maradona followed up his cheating by scoring one of the greatest goals ever seen and the controversial decision didn't decide the game. (Shilton said he would never forgive him for it and feels anger over those events to this day). Same with Lampard's goal that never was - we conceded 4 goals that day and lost by two. We can't blame the ref for that. This decision however directly cost Denmark a chance at reaching a final.

I was just disappointed that we won on such a soft decision. As I said if we lose by one goal to Italy on a decision that soft, we'll see how many of you accept it and clap them off the pitch.

Mickey, you bring up Wycombe as an example that it is perfectly OK to be dishonest and cheat, but they are near unanimously disliked by all of their opponents. No-one loses to them, witnesses the feigned injuries and timewasting and feels that is fine, it is part of football. They have absolutely no class or integrity as a football team, same with Lincoln and Brennan Johnson diving all over the place to win penalties. Fans wish those sides the worst and it leaves a bitter taste.

I don't think Sterling dived or cheated per se, but there is no conclusive angle of him receiving a shunt hard enough to cause him to fall over. I am not sure what modern defenders are meant to do when a player capable of great poise and balance can turn on a sixpence, but the merest brushing of shorts causes a collapse like that.

Is it soft? Is it cheating? Whatever it is it is nothing to be particularly proud of. You want to get to a final and win it on merit, not on highly dubious officiating that the rest of Europe is shaking their head at.d

You never read what people say and then make up the narrative to suit your own argument.

I never said it’s ok at any point in my post to shine a laser in someone’s eye. I think it’s disgusting. Also some idiot brings a laser pen in. How on earth do you think they can stop them. If they are that determined they can conceal it anywhere.

Secondly, l didn’t say it was ok to cheat and be dishonest. I said it’s part of the game. Next time you want to be so righteous about something at least read someone’s post properly. What l said was unfortunately it’s part and parcel of the game. It been in the game since l've been watching football. There are many examples where it’s been in the game in this Euro’s. Am l happy about it. No. Yet until FIFA, UEFA and football associations decide to take retrospective action after the games then things like diving are here to stay.

Next time your watching Argyle and they are winning and they are slowing the game down, almost bringing the game down to walking pace to get the ball back as it goes out of play, please remember they are blatantly time wasting and it’s still a form of cheating. Every team knows what they are doing. Some just do it better than others. That’s why Wycombe are always highlighted as they did it so well, for longer in a match and got away with it. You can’t get all moralistic because a team does it more or better. Argyle may not do it as much or blatant but they still time waste. They still cheat.

If Italy win via a soft penalty, like we had against Denmark, what on earth am I going to do about it? As an England and Argyle fan l have seen terrible decisions for and against my team. I will continue to see this. Unfortunately, that is part and parcel of football.

If football was so moralistic the great Leeds’s Utd side would never of been successful. You wouldn’t have a great player like Henry hand balling it into the net against Ireland in 2009 to help his side win a World Cup Qualifier. There are countless examples of cheating (some call it gamesmanship) in football.

Football is played in so many different ways. That’s the beauty of the sport. That’s why football is so fascinating and not like any other sport. I’m not saying all, but the only reason the majority of fans moan about time wasting, diving or any form of cheating is because it resulted in them losing. Yet how many change the narrative when their team win. Find a way to justify it. Be acceptable.

If your a fan of football and want to be all moralistic then I suggest your watching the wrong sport. Would l like the game to be played fairly? Yes. Yet here we are talking about Mardonna’s hand ball from ‘86 and now some 35 years later we still talk about some form of cheating. Unfortunately, your watching the wrong sport if you want it to be clean and honest. It’s never been that way in my lifetime.

The thing about football is that it brings iconic moments. The two incidents people remember about ‘86 World Cup is Mardonna’s hand of God and his beautiful goal from half way line against England. That to me sums up football. I love Mardonna as a player. A flawed genius. I should be angry about what he did in ‘86 but now l just look back differently at it.

There is no point being angry about stuff you can’t change. Of course l want different outcomes. However, it’s part of a journey as a football fan. A rollercoaster. One that this weekend sees us climbing to the summit. Maybe by Sunday evening we will be back in free fall. Yet l just enjoy the ride.

 

[Pogleswoody]

This!!