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Donald Trump

MickyD

Pasoti Donor
Dec 30, 2004
3,255
44
Brighton
Quinny":29i83w00 said:
MickyD":29i83w00 said:
Nobody can say that he didn't bring it entirely upon himself...

'Vote him out!': Protesters boo Trump during visit to Ruth Bader Ginsburg's casket


He must already have been loathing every second of his appearance, having been forced to show up at RBG's casket to "pay his respects" - in a mask, no less - and then he had to hear a perfectly democratically motivated chant against himself with no chance of immediate escape. For once I wish that he actually hadn't been wearing a mask, so we could have seen the look of sour displeasure that was surely smeared all over that puffy orange dictator face of his.

No doubt there'll be much bleating from him and the likes of Sean Hannity about how shamefully "disrespectful" it all was.

You know, I think he loved it every minute of it, not loathed it. I'm certain Trump likes whacking the hornets nest and getting a reaction: he knows how much he's disliked in the District of Columbia, and he knew the reaction him turning up would make. Play to the cameras, listen to the boos, and his supporters / Faux News will bang on about those bad Democrats.

Don't underestimate him.
Well, I had a very bad dream last night. I'd somehow missed it, and found out late that Trump had been reelected, at which point I pretty much had an emotional meltdown and ran around telling people how terrible everything was going to get. Clearly my subconscious isn't underestimating him!
 
Sep 6, 2006
11,577
451
MickyD":4yurcual said:
Quinny":4yurcual said:
MickyD":4yurcual said:
Nobody can say that he didn't bring it entirely upon himself...

'Vote him out!': Protesters boo Trump during visit to Ruth Bader Ginsburg's casket


He must already have been loathing every second of his appearance, having been forced to show up at RBG's casket to "pay his respects" - in a mask, no less - and then he had to hear a perfectly democratically motivated chant against himself with no chance of immediate escape. For once I wish that he actually hadn't been wearing a mask, so we could have seen the look of sour displeasure that was surely smeared all over that puffy orange dictator face of his.

No doubt there'll be much bleating from him and the likes of Sean Hannity about how shamefully "disrespectful" it all was.

You know, I think he loved it every minute of it, not loathed it. I'm certain Trump likes whacking the hornets nest and getting a reaction: he knows how much he's disliked in the District of Columbia, and he knew the reaction him turning up would make. Play to the cameras, listen to the boos, and his supporters / Faux News will bang on about those bad Democrats.

Don't underestimate him.
Well, I had a very bad dream last night. I'd somehow missed it, and found out late that Trump had been reelected, at which point I pretty much had an emotional meltdown and ran around telling people how terrible everything was going to get. Clearly my subconscious isn't underestimating him!

Should that happen does anybody know a more suitable planet to relocate to(virus free!) ? Where I can get Ifollow!
 
Jul 15, 2006
3,892
56
Kenton, Devon
TBH I'm pretty much resigned to Trump winning a second term. If the election was held tomorrow, Biden would win it, but the polls are narrowing and, with time passing, Trump can - and will - throw everything to prevent Democrats voting so he can steal that election. Time is not on Biden's side.

However, all is not lost. Trump might win the College, but things are looking more shaky for the GOP in the Senate. The Democrats only need to win 4 seats (3 if Biden wins, as the VP would have a deciding vote), and they have realistic chances in Colorado, Maine, Arizona, North Carolina, and Iowa. Even Kentucky and Montana can be added to that list (the Republicans have a slam-dunk flip in Alabama, where they lost a seat three years ago because Trump made Jeff Sessions attorney general and they nominated Roy Moore (who had way too much baggage even for the Republicans) to replace him -- they have since wised up and nominated a football coach). The gap is narrowing on Lindsey Graham in SC too, but my American friends (one is an ex editor of a provincial paper in Michigan, the other works for a paper in Nevada) on the other side of the Pond think that him losing is more of a long shot, no matter what the polls are saying at the moment.

But, if Trump wins reelection, but the GOP loses the Senate, then that will hamstring him. He can talk and tweet to his heart's content, but he won't be able to do any more serious damage.
 

signalspast

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Aug 17, 2005
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Quinny":3kqg6li1 said:
TBH I'm pretty much resigned to Trump winning a second term. If the election was held tomorrow, Biden would win it, but the polls are narrowing and, with time passing, Trump can - and will - throw everything to prevent Democrats voting so he can steal that election. Time is not on Biden's side.

However, all is not lost. Trump might win the College, but things are looking more shaky for the GOP in the Senate. The Democrats only need to win 4 seats (3 if Biden wins, as the VP would have a deciding vote), and they have realistic chances in Colorado, Maine, Arizona, North Carolina, and Iowa. Even Kentucky and Montana can be added to that list (the Republicans have a slam-dunk flip in Alabama, where they lost a seat three years ago because Trump made Jeff Sessions attorney general and they nominated Roy Moore (who had way too much baggage even for the Republicans) to replace him -- they have since wised up and nominated a football coach). The gap is narrowing on Lindsey Graham in SC too, but my American friends (one is an ex editor of a provincial paper in Michigan, the other works for a paper in Nevada) on the other side of the Pond think that him losing is more of a long shot, no matter what the polls are saying at the moment.

But, if Trump wins reelection, but the GOP loses the Senate, then that will hamstring him. He can talk and tweet to his heart's content, but he won't be able to do any more serious damage.

The problem with polls these days they are not random like times in the past when you had ladies approach you in the city centre for your opinion.

Nowadays they are citizens that are on the database of the pollsters. To be on this database you apply where you are asked numerous questions about yourself.
When the poll is undertaken the persons that undertake it our selected by the person requesting to partake in that poll. Not the pollster company asking them to partake.
The pollster company choose the persons that meet the criteria laid out by the paymasters hence a lot of times they get replies saying you do not fit our parameters.0
The paymasters who would of laid out the parameters of questions and persons they wanted within the poll then paint the responses to suit their objective

No political siding both sides do it whatever the cause
 
Apr 15, 2004
2,876
138
East Devon
Somewhat simplistic sp. Serious polling is a highly scientific statistical endeavour. Sure some are propaganda BS but for the reputable companies political polling accuracy is a shop window for them to attract business to conduct market surveys etc.....they are genuinely interested in accuracy and don't care about who it favours.

You can't just randomly ask 2,500 people and then claim that represents 250 million. Even 25,000 or 250,000 wouldn't work. So they have to be selective to ensure the 2,500 represent a demographic cross section in proportion to the country or state of race, religion, class, age, region, occupation etc....They then have to 'weight' the replies according to how likely each are likely to actually vote and (even more tricky) if they're telling the truth (voting for Trump or voting Tory is a shameful thing to admit after all :wink: ).

Most serious polls quote an error of around +/- 4%. So the only way to get a real idea is to take an average of several. Doing that suggests Biden is genuinely ahead at the moment between 4% and 9% nationally ...but then the crazy US electoral college system can screw the result. State polls still seem to be in his favour ....just. But a small movement (or manipulation) in a couple of key states like Florida could prove disastrous for all of us.

BTW - the polls last time were pretty accurate forecasting a narrow Clinton win for the popular vote and the state results well within the error margin. Trump only squeaked in due to thier mad system...though he disputes this without a shred of evidence.
 
Aug 17, 2011
8,196
1
55
Kings Tamerton
I should be surprised that even with all the history lessons we’ve had to learn from that there are still those that appease during the rise of a dictator.

Maybe he didn’t start out with the intention to be so divisive and maybe this is his revenge on the so called elites that have shown so much disdain for his leadership. If so it is for one man only to pull back on the rhetoric he has voiced and take some blame for some of the ills to befall the country he says he loves. But that, as we’ve all seen is against his nature. His win at all cost, his, if you’re not with me you’re against me mindset, his grotesque, blame everyone else for my failings has led the world (apart from the UK) to see that the US is not going to be the answer any more against our common enemies. The Russians have certainly done a job on the Western world when they elected Trump and gave it the coup de gras with “our” Brexit vote.

I did wonder (simplistically) why the Democrats did not advise the protestors in Portland to go home to restore some peace to the city but that would be following the Trump narrative that it’s a Democrat party protest which it ain’t. The protests in Portland and elsewhere are a direct result of a systemic racism in the US law enforcement on a city by city case and the flames have been well and truly flamed by Trump involving the federal forces, so many not in official uniforms but also in his lack of consistency that allows armed vigilante groups to shoot and kill rock throwers and graffiti tag gets and actually laps up seeing reporters and journalists take plastic bullets when doing their jobs.

The rhetoric that Trump sends out about America burning if Joe Biden gets the vote ignores the fact that America is burning on his watch.
 
Ade the green":2plc9mv1 said:
I should be surprised that even with all the history lessons we’ve had to learn from that there are still those that appease during the rise of a dictator.

Maybe he didn’t start out with the intention to be so divisive and maybe this is his revenge on the so called elites that have shown so much disdain for his leadership. If so it is for one man only to pull back on the rhetoric he has voiced and take some blame for some of the ills to befall the country he says he loves. But that, as we’ve all seen is against his nature. His win at all cost, his, if you’re not with me you’re against me mindset, his grotesque, blame everyone else for my failings has led the world (apart from the UK) to see that the US is not going to be the answer any more against our common enemies. The Russians have certainly done a job on the Western world when they elected Trump and gave it the coup de gras with “our” Brexit vote.

I did wonder (simplistically) why the Democrats did not advise the protestors in Portland to go home to restore some peace to the city but that would be following the Trump narrative that it’s a Democrat party protest which it ain’t. The protests in Portland and elsewhere are a direct result of a systemic racism in the US law enforcement on a city by city case and the flames have been well and truly flamed by Trump involving the federal forces, so many not in official uniforms but also in his lack of consistency that allows armed vigilante groups to shoot and kill rock throwers and graffiti tag gets and actually laps up seeing reporters and journalists take plastic bullets when doing their jobs.

The rhetoric that Trump sends out about America burning if Joe Biden gets the vote ignores the fact that America is burning on his watch.


On your point about learning from history, I would not be surprised if 200 years from now historians were still talking about the impact of psychopathic leaders changing the course of world events, from Napoleon, Stalin, Hitler, Franco and Mussolini, through to Putin and Trump.
 

signalspast

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Aug 17, 2005
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Ave_IT":3sd4uoap said:
Somewhat simplistic sp. Serious polling is a highly scientific statistical endeavour. Sure some are propaganda BS but for the reputable companies political polling accuracy is a shop window for them to attract business to conduct market surveys etc.....they are genuinely interested in accuracy and don't care about who it favours.

You can't just randomly ask 2,500 people and then claim that represents 250 million. Even 25,000 or 250,000 wouldn't work. So they have to be selective to ensure the 2,500 represent a demographic cross section in proportion to the country or state of race, religion, class, age, region, occupation etc....They then have to 'weight' the replies according to how likely each are likely to actually vote and (even more tricky) if they're telling the truth (voting for Trump or voting Tory is a shameful thing to admit after all :wink: ).

Most serious polls quote an error of around +/- 4%. So the only way to get a real idea is to take an average of several. Doing that suggests Biden is genuinely ahead at the moment between 4% and 9% nationally ...but then the crazy US electoral college system can screw the result. State polls still seem to be in his favour ....just. But a small movement (or manipulation) in a couple of key states like Florida could prove disastrous for all of us.

BTW - the polls last time were pretty accurate forecasting a narrow Clinton win for the popular vote and the state results well within the error margin. Trump only squeaked in due to thier mad system...though he disputes this without a shred of evidence.

Yes it is a simplistic viewpoint and I dont think the integrity of the polling companies is in doubt. As you say they also undertake a lot of marketing. Whilst my opinion is based on the uk and not the US like the subject matter my first doubts about them is the citizens. Whats the motivation that they want to be on a database and register with the companies. Surely it can't be the 50 pence or so they get paid to complete it or is it the politically motivated. Probably a combination and a shedload of other reasons in between but I do think its more likely the politically motivated that are likely to volunteer for the polls, if that is so you cannot say rhat the selection is random with average Jo public answering.
The second is the paymasters when uku get a poll it will state a yougove poll undertaken on behalf of the say Guardiwn/daily express whichever. Which them as the paymasters wouldnt rhey want it to show there readership preference and state they want their publications readership to undertake the poll. This straightaway skews the poll in a certain way.
Yes I am probably being cynical but with the figures they actually ask and that it can't really be called random its why they didn't pick up things like the collapse of the red wall
 
Jan 20, 2004
755
34
It is frightening indeed to watch this slow motion disaster unfold. It is just over five weeks before this Titanic like election hits the rocks :shifty: that could in all probability lead to a revival of the civil war but in this case the Northern states declaring a cessation from the South.

If Trump 'wins' the tensions on the left will more than likely explode and if Biden wins Trump, the Republican party and their armed vigilantes won't accept it.

Trump aside, there has been a strong movement emanating from the Republican evangelical South for the US to declare itself a fundamental 'Christian State' which the liberal coastal states would not accept. If Trump holds on to power, and his dictatorship then pretty much ensured, the likelihood of him pushing this forward in his second and permanent term is more than a probability.

There has already been talk of California breaking away form the union (Calexit) and other progressive Northern states would follow suit. Could the end game to all of this one day result in Jesusland v The United States of Canada ?

What is clear in all of this is that two party politics is not really democracy at all and splits a country in two one way or another leading to division and hatred.

Democracy = coalition and compromise
 
Aug 17, 2011
8,196
1
55
Kings Tamerton
Mike E":19bnnpq3 said:
It is frightening indeed to watch this slow motion disaster unfold. It is just over five weeks before this Titanic like election hits the rocks :shifty: that could in all probability lead to a revival of the civil war but in this case the Northern states declaring a cessation from the South.

If Trump 'wins' the tensions on the left will more than likely explode and if Biden wins Trump, the Republican party and their armed vigilantes won't accept it.

Trump aside, there has been a strong movement emanating from the Republican evangelical South for the US to declare itself a fundamental 'Christian State' which the liberal coastal states would not accept. If Trump holds on to power, and his dictatorship then pretty much ensured, the likelihood of him pushing this forward in his second and permanent term is more than a probability.

There has already been talk of California breaking away form the union (Calexit) and other progressive Northern states would follow suit. Could the end game to all of this one day result in Jesusland v The United States of Canada ?

What is clear in all of this is that two party politics is not really democracy at all and splits a country in two one way or another leading to division and hatred.

Democracy = coalition and compromise

I believe Bernie Sanders is actually an independent but needed to align with the Democrats if he were ever to get a run or two at being President.
 
Jan 20, 2004
755
34
The point I am making Ade is, unless the population is represented proportionately and thus a coalition of governmant, power can be manipulated into exactly what we are possibly witnessing in the US.
 

MickyD

Pasoti Donor
Dec 30, 2004
3,255
44
Brighton
Mike E":qbnntyn6 said:
The point I am making Ade is, unless the population is represented proportionately and thus a coalition of governmant, power can be manipulated into exactly what we are possibly witnessing in the US.
And on that general theme, here's a little factette that I learned today:

The Democrats with a 45 Senate seat minority represent 15 million more voters than the Republicans with a 53 seat Senate majority. (There are two independents making up the 100.)
 

MickyD

Pasoti Donor
Dec 30, 2004
3,255
44
Brighton
And to continue the theme, here's something I've just read by Jonathan Freedland in today's Guardian (in which he references that Atlantic article I mentoned the other day):

...the Senate picks the judges, and the Senate enshrines minority rule. With two senators per state, tiny Wyoming (population: 600,000) has the same representation as gargantuan California (40 million). On current trends, 70% of Americans will soon have just 30 senators representing them, while the 30% minority will have 70. When it comes to their right to medical treatment or to rid their streets of military-grade assault weapons, the urban, diverse majority are subject to the veto of the rural, white, conservative minority.
Donald Trump's plot against democracy could break America apart
 

MickyD

Pasoti Donor
Dec 30, 2004
3,255
44
Brighton
Tax bombshell reveals Trump's image is a sham

A stunning New York Times exposé of the President's tax returns Sunday revealed a pitifully inept businessman and a serial tax avoider crushed by massive debts that could expose him to conflicts of interest given his position as President and power to help undisclosed lenders.
Brian Stelter of CNN believes that this is one of the most important stories of the last five years, but how many people can there be left who are honestly surprised by any of this, much less shocked, or who may think of changing their vote because of it?

Maybe if it (and Stormy Daniels and all the others) had come out before the 2016 election it would have made the difference, but almost everybody's opinions are so thoroughly baked in now that I wonder if it will change a single vote - and anyway, all his devoted cult followers will once again just shout out deepstatefakenoozmeeja (as their Dear Leader already has) and not believe a word of it.

His supporters, and the GOP, don't care that he's an obnoxious human being and a total fraud, because he's been delivering them exactly what they wanted - a hard right, authoritarian, isolationist, white supremacist, deregulated, ultra-corporate America - with Amy Coney Barrett the massive cherry on the poisoned cake.

And we still have to do a trade deal with them...