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Coronavirus (merged threads)

Nov 15, 2011
1,895
299
Let's just look at how the Government followed advice at the start of the pandemic.

Johnson missed the first 5 Cobra meetings, refused to work weekends and would only look at red box documents if they were on one piece of A4 paper. How do you follow advice if you don't know what it is?

Refused to join the European PPE emergency procurement scheme. The NHS were crying out for PPE, using bin bags and dangerously reusing equipment.

On 3rd March the scientists gave specific advice not to shake hands, later that evening Johnson boasted about shaking hands with Covid patients.

On 12th March the Government aborted contact tracing even though the WHO stressed that going in "hard and fast" on contact tracing was the way out of the pandemic.

The Government gave up controlling the borders even though other countries successfully did this.

Vallance and Whitty certainly have questions to answer, but as they have consistently said, they advise, politicians decide.
 
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Frank Butcher

Foodbank Donor
Oct 9, 2003
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Gairloch
The main benefit of the German system as I understand it was particularly about the number of local testing labs. Like south Korea they have a lot of small labs, often using local university facilities, whereas we had gone for 'efficiency' measures that meant having a few really big specialist labs. According to a science podcast I listened to at the beginning of the pandemic (completely non-political) they speculated this may have been a reason our government didn't pursue track and trace at the beginning - they didn't think these would be able to cope with the sudden surge in testing. In Germany the turn around of results was fast - even to the point where if the result was negative sometimes the doctor didn't believe it (in the early days the test were often not done correctly) so they could quickly order a second one.

What would also play a part is the private regional franchise system. No doubt many of those organisations would have been commissioned by the central authorities. Something we would not have had the luxury or capacity to do with a high majority national system.
 
Sep 6, 2006
11,604
473
Of course its never the Government’s fault. Following on from that presumably they take no credit for the vaccination programme. Oh wait a minute...
 
Dec 27, 2004
763
34
Bidford on Avon

Dither and delay part 4

How many lives will this cost?

We have 10 times the infection rate of France, Italy and Spain and 5 times that of Germany.

We've now fallen behind on vaccination rates and the herd immunity plan on 12 - 15 year olds is progressing well.

What do those countries have we don't?

Oh yes masks our plan B if too many start dying, rather than stopping them dying in the first place.

Truly moronic leadership and an abdication of responsibility (it'll all be your fault) for public health for reasons I can't fathom?

Get dying done
 
May 16, 2016
3,874
216
What other countries have is a better attitude amongst it's citizens. There's absolutely nothing stopping any of us from wearing a mask or upping our hygiene levels at any time. Rather than wait to be told to do something and then moan about having more restrictions imposed.

I went to HP last night and was shocked to see virtually no mask wearing underneath the Lyndhurst. I caught covid at the Doncaster game and this was my first visit since then, not wanting to be a hypocrite, I wore my mask as a precaution. I don't know why I bothered to be honest.

I test myself at least twice a week. I don't know if other countries routinely do, that might be why we pick up more cases. Our vaccination programme has suffered from those not wanting it for themselves or their kids, the latter being the probable source of the increase in infections.

It's in our own hands. We can accept and take on some responsibility rather than doing the modern thing of just blaming everyone else.
 
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Nov 15, 2011
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It's all down to clarity and leadership and we have none. When you see cabinet meetings and the Tory benches in parliament with not one person wearing a mask - everyone on the opposite benches wears one - what do you expect. You can talk about personal responsibility but when the message from the top is don't bother, we're not bothered what do you expect to happen?
 
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Frank Butcher

Foodbank Donor
Oct 9, 2003
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Whilst I agree to an extent GG (apportioning blame, abdicating responsibility and taking offence are all traits that have become endemic IMO), I do think the face mask thing is a mistake. I’m up here in Scotland now and of course face masks are still a requirement in most indoor public spaces. Facemasks are also required in secondary schools.

Cases are falling here in contrast to the spike in England. And overall the two worst affected age groups seem to be school age and parental age.

I travelled back to visit over the weekend and was quite shocked to see the attitude of people in service stations - I’d guess 20% wearing masks.
 
May 16, 2016
3,874
216
It's all down to clarity and leadership and we have none. When you see cabinet meetings and the Tory benches in parliament with not one person wearing a mask - everyone on the opposite benches wears one - what do you expect. You can talk about personal responsibility but when the message from the top is don't bother, we're not bothered what do you expect to happen?
I'd expect to be part of the solution rather than moan about the problem. If more of us stepped up, others would follow. Make it a social thing rather than sit back and complain.

You've just played a part in proving my point.
 
Nov 15, 2011
1,895
299
I'd expect to be part of the solution rather than moan about the problem. If more of us stepped up, others would follow. Make it a social thing rather than sit back and complain.

You've just played a part in proving my point.
Not really Guiri I wear a mask everywhere, I've "stepped up" maybe the Government could "step up" and less people would be dead.
 
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May 16, 2016
3,874
216
Whilst I agree to an extent GG (apportioning blame, abdicating responsibility and taking offence are all traits that have become endemic IMO), I do think the face mask thing is a mistake. I’m up here in Scotland now and of course face masks are still a requirement in most indoor public spaces. Facemasks are also required in secondary schools.

Cases are falling here in contrast to the spike in England. And overall the two worst affected age groups seem to be school age and parental age.

I travelled back to visit over the weekend and was quite shocked to see the attitude of people in service stations - I’d guess 20% wearing masks.
Ditto that from my experience of divided time between here and Spain. Much more mask wearing, even after some of the requirements were eased, the majority carried on wearing them, even when walking along the beachfronts. No complaints, no drama, no social media meltdowns, just sensible life adjustments.

Contrast that with the first hour or two of being back in England. Attitudes completely reversed. A quick scroll through any social platform or walk down a High Street will confirm that.
 
What’s additionally worrying is the news this morning of the very small percentage of 75+ who are taking the booster jab. Are they unaware that the first two don’t last forever?

I agree also about our casualness regarding masks, on public transport in particular. Does the government really believe it will make itself unpopular by insisting on this?
 
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Jul 15, 2006
3,892
57
Kenton, Devon
I shake my head over people's attitudes towards mask-wearing, and I put it down to the fact that people are still under the opinion that masks only exist to protect themselves, not others. I have to be careful as I am immunosuppressed, and I usually do the weekly shop at 7am on a Saturday. At that time, the supermarkets are [usually] filled with those who are of the same mindset as me and most wear masks. Those occasions when I have to pop into the shops later in the day and they're filled with the invincible younger who don't feel the need to wear masks. And it's great that the vaccines work - my wife's 94yo gran who contracted Covid a few weeks ago suffered very few ill effects when, a year ago, the odds of her surviving a dose of Covid was most definitely against her. But the hospitals are still struggling with Covid patients (we have 27 here at the RDE as of 9am this morning).

I don't want to go back to a world of lockdowns, but I want the NHS staff - and patients - to be protected the best they can. PUT A FECKIN' MASK ON. If it means being mandated by the Govt - do it NOW.
 
Dec 27, 2004
763
34
Bidford on Avon
What’s additionally worrying is the news this morning of the very small percentage of 75+ who are taking the booster jab. Are they unaware that the first two don’t last forever?

I agree also about our casualness regarding masks, on public transport in particular. Does the government really believe it will make itself unpopular by insisting on this?
Bizarre when there was talk of gesture politics, but a decision contrary to public health and true gesture politics was then made.

Sorry, but in my opinion Johnson is a fool more interested in being popular, than acting in the national interest.

Even friends say "why are you wearing a mask, it's not law now"

And therein lies the problem.

Do you think Thatcher, Blair, May or Cameron would do the same?

Indeed, TM is an outlier who consistently has the common sense to wear her mask.

If this becomes law again now, how many will ignore it?

A truly stupid move, even by Boris's low standards
 
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Pogleswoody

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All this talk of following the science and advice.
Why masks in the rest of the UK but not in England?
How does that make any sense?:unsure:
I work in retail, I am there for hours. I continue to wear my mask to protect others.
Others who are only there for 20 minutes and with me for 5 minutes max. can't wear a mask?
I'm not allowed to swear at customers but the next person who licks their fingers to sort their ten pound notes out before handing them to me might get an earful! 🤬