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Coronavirus (merged threads)

Pogleswoody

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signalspast":2z2oagal said:
Mr Opong will be happy to see you Pogles pass him my regards

If I see him I will do mate. As you know, there are lots of good people working there to help the likes of us!!
Mr Lai was kind enough to discharge me on my 68th birthday last year!! What a talent he is!!
Federici Luvisetto did my initial procedure and reversal.
I hope I get to see him because I owe him big time!! He cared more about me than I do!! :lol:

If the staff in there are as caring, expert and dedicated in the coronavirus wards then a lot of people will be saved and will owe them a lifelong debt of gratitude as I do. Good luck to you all. Believe people believe!!

NHS?? awesome!! :nworthy:
 
Mar 23, 2019
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Brilliant from Chancellor Rishi Sunak... PM in the making.

Been very impressed by this government so far.

Stay inside. Wash your hands.
 

PL2 3DQ

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Whatever your political persuasion you have to admit the Government has stepped up, I've been impressed.

I recommend watching the movie Contagion, it was made in 2011 and is an exact prediction of what is happening now, almost like watching a rolling news channel. Uncanny.
 
Apr 15, 2008
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I can't help thinking this is a massive overreaction. Even if you admit that the figures from China are under reported by a large margin, 10,000 deaths mainly of elderly and in firmed patients worldwide throughout a Northern Hemisphere winter (Jan-Mar) from a virus, is not particularly alarming.
 
Apr 15, 2008
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Mike E":s636k8ss said:
You are right Ave it, the science makes sense, and in normal circumstances I would trust our government to trust their top scientific and medical advisors as to the appropriate action to take.

However I can't help but feel this semi 'non action' suits this ' right wing, wolf in sheeps clothing' government down to the ground. A government who, so far, have swept any mention of social care or compassion for the elderly and vulnerable under the carpet in preference for their agenda and version of economic growth.

Johnson's podium message sent a chill throughout the country when he told us to prepare to lose many of our loved ones, and the cynic in me had visions of his 'eugenically' minded advisors rubbing their hands at the opportunity for a good old clear out of the log jam of elderly, clogging up current and future hospital beds, and reducing the burden of the NHS on the Treasury. A chilling but purely scientific Himmleresc approach.

Both the Trump administration and the current UK government (without admitting it) view publicly funded health care as a burden on their economic models of capitalism, and have watched this virus evolve from China for months. Yet their inaction is dumbfounding. If, albeit expensive, they had enforced testing of individuals arriving from China from the start and any other countries then infected, they may well have staved this off untill a vaccine could be found.

I have not been a fan of the Govs approach so far (too much of an overreaction and trampling on civil liberties), but that is sixth form Guardian reader conspiracy theory nonsense... the government cannot stop throwing money at the NHS.
 
Jan 20, 2004
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crownhillpilgrim":2pifc51t said:
Mike E":2pifc51t said:
You are right Ave it, the science makes sense, and in normal circumstances I would trust our government to trust their top scientific and medical advisors as to the appropriate action to take.

However I can't help but feel this semi 'non action' suits this ' right wing, wolf in sheeps clothing' government down to the ground. A government who, so far, have swept any mention of social care or compassion for the elderly and vulnerable under the carpet in preference for their agenda and version of economic growth.

Johnson's podium message sent a chill throughout the country when he told us to prepare to lose many of our loved ones, and the cynic in me had visions of his 'eugenically' minded advisors rubbing their hands at the opportunity for a good old clear out of the log jam of elderly, clogging up current and future hospital beds, and reducing the burden of the NHS on the Treasury. A chilling but purely scientific Himmleresc approach.

Both the Trump administration and the current UK government (without admitting it) view publicly funded health care as a burden on their economic models of capitalism, and have watched this virus evolve from China for months. Yet their inaction is dumbfounding. If, albeit expensive, they had enforced testing of individuals arriving from China from the start and any other countries then infected, they may well have staved this off untill a vaccine could be found.

I have not been a fan of the Govs approach so far (too much of an overreaction and trampling on civil liberties), but that is sixth form Guardian reader conspiracy theory nonsense... the government cannot stop throwing money at the NHS.

A week ago our governments approach to this thing was to advise over 70's to go into hiding and let the younger population build up a 'herd immunity' and by the governments own admission, to the horror of a lot of top scientists and medics, prepare to lose a large number of our loved ones.

Whereas the science makes sense the high risk, lack of compassion and effort to save lives policy, compared to other countries was chilling.

A week later, to its credit, our government has changed tack, and I agree with other posters Rishi Sunak has emerged with great credibility, in what are totally unprecedented times. Even Boris Johnson is appearing more statesman like and good luck to him, let's hope he can steer this country back to normality.

You don't however need to be a Guardian reader to be wary of Dominic Cummings et al and his power and dangerous philosophies. (But that is a different debate from this subject)
 

MickyD

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crownhillpilgrim":1htxnoq5 said:
I have not been a fan of the Govs approach so far (too much of an overreaction and trampling on civil liberties), but that is sixth form Guardian reader conspiracy theory nonsense... the government cannot stop throwing money at the NHS.
In the coming months I think that many of us, or most of us, are going to find ourselves in all sorts of moral and political pickles. Full disclosure: I myself am a very long-time Guardian and Observer reader, and have been a vegetarian for about 35 years; but if I were literally starving (not "starving") would I eat meat to stay alive? It would be tough on principle - and potentially all but unbearable, depending on what I had to eat! - but of course I would. I'm not a martyr. (Would I read the Daily Mail for trustworthy reportage in the absence of my preferred sources? Well, let's not push it.)

Similarly, if social order genuinely disintegrated thanks to mass illness or mass hunger or nuclear apocalypse or asteroid strike or similar, and anarchy and terror reigned, would I object to martial law being imposed? Painful though it would be, no, I wouldn't. It would be the only chance we had for any kind of civilised future at the other end of whatever catastrophe had befallen us, with the added benefit that lots of the most obnoxious looting, raping and pillaging ars*holes would be dead. That's not over-reacting and trampling on civil liberties; it's just necessary governance of last resort.

On the other hand, what worries me is the long history of so many governments' willingness to use crises, real or imagined or even manufactured (the Reichstag fire comes to mind), to start opportunistic wars and to impose the most draconian strictures on their own citizenry - the way in more recent times that the so-called war on terror turned us all into acquiescent surveillance zombies, for instance. (9/11 was real; the war on terror was a sham.)

What we're currently living in is not an imagined or manufactured crisis - it's already a worldwide societal and economic crisis, whatever the eventual medical fallout - so here's hoping that no government ultimately uses it turn itself into a warmongering totalitarian regime, at least any more than some already are.
 
May 16, 2016
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crownhillpilgrim":240zw8q5 said:
I can't help thinking this is a massive overreaction. Even if you admit that the figures from China are under reported by a large margin, 10,000 deaths mainly of elderly and in firmed patients worldwide throughout a Northern Hemisphere winter (Jan-Mar) from a virus, is not particularly alarming.

Back in the 'Good Days', my elderly Mother in North Cornwall had to wait 4 Hours for an Ambulance after a fall. Then, after an hour in the Ambulance before getting to Derriford A&E, she got to wait for another 4 Hours. This was when those kind of times were considered normal in Cornwall.

Today, there's probably going to be an influx of 2nd Home Owners, Air BnB bookers and Caravan Towing escapees from the Big City. All arriving to import the Virus and Stockpile the scarcely available food in an already poorly served area.

One Hospital Bed taken up by someone who caught the Virus after deciding it's all been an overreaction, is one Bed less for the next Elderly Parent who falls or someone's Kid who needs treatment. That's assuming most of the NHS Staff aren't having to stay away to Self Isolate because some infected Stockpiler pushed them aside in Tesco and they've had to stay home. Thinking that only the Old and already Ill will die is not only unsympathetic and uncaring, it's forgetting that their final days will be spent occupying the time of someone who might otherwise been able to treat you.

Here in Spain since the Lockdown, generally, people have actually calmed down, no panic buying or fighting in the Aisles. Just sensible measures and an uncharacteristic show of restraint. Why ? because it's no longer seen as an overeaction, but a necessity if there's to be any hope of getting through this.

Watching and reading about the UK from afar, is almost embarrassing, the incredibly Selfish Attitude prevails. A Guy in London being interviewed on the News saying he wont take measures, it's up to others to not infect him. The Profiteering caused by the Stockpiling hysteria. The light hearted jovial ignorance of advice.

The Script has / is already written across Europe. Italy and Spain have both proved how quickly and catastrophically it will all go wrong. If the UK Population choose to ignore it as it's 'an overreaction' then best of luck to you. Dame Vera wont save you now.
 
crownhillpilgrim":337tnwgu said:
I can't help thinking this is a massive overreaction. Even if you admit that the figures from China are under reported by a large margin, 10,000 deaths mainly of elderly and in firmed patients worldwide throughout a Northern Hemisphere winter (Jan-Mar) from a virus, is not particularly alarming.

The normal number of elderly deaths in the UK each winter from flu is around 5000. The CMO indicated that if the number of elderly deaths were contained to 20,000 this would be considered successful. Your casual writing off of a potential 15,000 elderly premature deaths as an overreaction is breathtaking. I read Mein Kampf in my teens. I seem to remember the author agreeing with you.
 

Pogleswoody

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crownhillpilgrim":15hneksf said:
I can't help thinking this is a massive overreaction. Even if you admit that the figures from China are under reported by a large margin, 10,000 deaths mainly of elderly and in firmed patients worldwide throughout a Northern Hemisphere winter (Jan-Mar) from a virus, is not particularly alarming.

You are Tim Martin and I claim my free pint!! :stout:

I'm now quite elderly and not as firm as I was (Sorry Mrs Pogle) and, I tell you what, it ******* alarms me!! :shock:

Lucky you to be free of such fear.
Go and watch the new series of Westworld, seems to be your idea of what society should be. :facepalm:
 
Sep 25, 2010
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Tim Martin, got to be the biggest prat of all times, putting his own bar workers at high risk, because of him putting money before health care.
pu
Yesterday when he said, he was keeping all his pubs open,was embarrassing and dangerous.

Glad when they have now shut the pubs.

He made a fool of himself, during the Brexit debate.
Skeeping
 
Aug 17, 2011
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Looking at maps of the CV19 cases in Italy, they do seem to be centred around two distinct areas, Lombardy and Veneto. Both these areas have specifics as to why the virus has been more virulent in the areas and both have ecological pressures adding to the crisis. Heavy pollution and winter tourism has seen the virus take on a force of it’s own that is not nearly so bad in the Southern districts where the population is more sparse and more spread out.

The same can be said about China in that the Wuhan district is very built up and very populace congested.

The same can also be seen in maps of the U.K. that shows a marked distinction between London, other major cities and rural areas. Undoubtedly there will be pockets that buck the trend but we in the distant South West and areas like certain parts of Wales and the Scottish highlands are relatively feeling the affects worse.

Where we in Devon and Cornwall will have a fear is the obvious migration from London to holiday homes where the thought of being isolated is going to be infinitely more appealing than staying home which is why local council officials and MPs have asked that these people stay away.

The other burden that cannot be measured as yet is the types of BRIT that have gone on holiday after warnings were issued, thought that 10-15 cans of Spanish beer had the same affects as a vaccine and will now be bringing the virus home (after of course their crowdfunding plea to pay for the extra days holiday they’ve endured waiting for a flight home).

Bravo to the medicos that’s have come out of retirement in our hour of need and they certainly deserve more than just applause and plaudits when this is all over. On the other hand though is the people that have been stockpiling unnecessary supplies of toilet rolls but also the very much needed paracetamol. In times of crisis we always harken back to the dark days of 1940 and liken ourselves to the blitz spirit when in fact we (a vast minority) become the kind of profiteering spivs that were also very much about in those times.

Last count there was 42 CV19 cases in Devon but 2000 cases in London as of 21st of March so it shows how lightly we’ve had it down here and how lightly we’re likely to see the affects as opposed to major population areas. 11 confirmed cases in Plymouth.
 
Jan 20, 2004
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Ade the green":344ly65a said:
Looking at maps of the CV19 cases in Italy, they do seem to be centred around two distinct areas, Lombardy and Veneto. Both these areas have specifics as to why the virus has been more virulent in the areas and both have ecological pressures adding to the crisis. Heavy pollution and winter tourism has seen the virus take on a force of it’s own that is not nearly so bad in the Southern districts where the population is more sparse and more spread out.

The same can be said about China in that the Wuhan district is very built up and very populace congested.

The same can also be seen in maps of the U.K. that shows a marked distinction between London, other major cities and rural areas. Undoubtedly there will be pockets that buck the trend but we in the distant South West and areas like certain parts of Wales and the Scottish highlands are relatively feeling the affects worse.

Where we in Devon and Cornwall will have a fear is the obvious migration from London to holiday homes where the thought of being isolated is going to be infinitely more appealing than staying home which is why local council officials and MPs have asked that these people stay away.

The other burden that cannot be measured as yet is the types of BRIT that have gone on holiday after warnings were issued, thought that 10-15 cans of Spanish beer had the same affects as a vaccine and will now be bringing the virus home (after of course their crowdfunding plea to pay for the extra days holiday they’ve endured waiting for a flight home).

Bravo to the medicos that’s have come out of retirement in our hour of need and they certainly deserve more than just applause and plaudits when this is all over. On the other hand though is the people that have been stockpiling unnecessary supplies of toilet rolls but also the very much needed paracetamol. In times of crisis we always harken back to the dark days of 1940 and liken ourselves to the blitz spirit when in fact we (a vast minority) become the kind of profiteering spivs that were also very much about in those times.

Last count there was 42 CV19 cases in Devon but 2000 cases in London as of 21st of March so it shows how lightly we’ve had it down here and how lightly we’re likely to see the affects as opposed to major population areas. 11 confirmed cases in Plymouth.


Seeing those BRITS in Spain on the news a few days ago, flying over to a country way further advanced into this pandemic than our own, was embarrassing. It would be so fitting if they now had to stay there for the duration of the lock down with all bars shut, strict curfew and no flights back to the UK.
 
May 16, 2016
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We were sat on a Plane committed to travel, readying for departure as Spain announced their State of Alarm. We had already used Wipes and Hand Gel to clean the Tables, Seats and personal area. I would have abandoned the Trip at that Point if we could have. I realised the seriousness of the Situation both here and at Home. What freaked me out most was the attitude of some of the others on the Plane.

A large group of drunk older Welsh Guys sat in their randomly allocated Seats wearing Flowery Shirts and Sombreros shouting amongst other things, the occasional Olé like some 1980s Benidorm Party, cringeworthy at the best of Times. The Flight Crew looked as exasperated as I felt. A married couple sat opposite us were knocking back the G&Ts and the longer the Flight, the cruder their language became. These people were either just totally unaware and ignorant of the Situation or as I expect, couldn't give a Toss and were going anyway as it's their Holiday, just a bit of Flu and an overreaction.

Today, they'll probably be waking up thinking their money was wasted as everything was shut within 48 Hours, how they were lucky to get Home when they did and how much Self Isolation sucks. Most likely however is they will probably be adding their voices to the growing cry for people to stay away from their neck of the Woods to avoid unnecessary spread of the Virus.

Saying the far South West is likely to have it lightly compared to major population areas is only a fair comparison if you just consider amounts. It is, as said (at the moment), relative. Do it as a Ratio of cases to Medical Care, percentage of local Population density, facilities, Ambulance and support network availability and it's a lot more worrying. London probably has more Bed and Care capacity in an area smaller than Plymouth than the Whole of Cornwall. Public transport is about to all but dry up, my Sisters Village Bus Service has gone to a Sunday Schedule ie No Bus at all.

As escapees travel down to sit it out, they'll soon find their Food runs out, the Closures of Attractions, (eventually) Beaches and Parks and the lack of just about anything else, problematic. After contributing to the increasing Infection Rate, the rise in the amount of Dead dying on Trolleys or in their Caravans will convince them to go Home before the County is locked in so they can increase the infection numbers elsewhere as they travel back to where they would have felt safer if only they'd followed the Advice given. Once things have totally shut down, the 'Isolation' bit will take on a whole new meaning as the other side of Rural Life reveals itself.
 

Frank Butcher

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Guiri Green":1vr722pe said:
Saying the far South West is likely to have it lightly compared to major population areas is only a fair comparison if you just consider amounts. It is, as said (at the moment), relative. Do it as a Ratio of cases to Medical Care, percentage of local Population density, facilities, Ambulance and support network availability and it's a lot more worrying. London probably has more Bed and Care capacity in an area smaller than Plymouth than the Whole of Cornwall. Public transport is about to all but dry up, my Sisters Village Bus Service has gone to a Sunday Schedule ie No Bus at all.

Far too simplistic a comparison. Population density is the downfall of large cities like London at a time like this. Close proximity transport is pretty much the only option for central Londoners and essential commuters - and it's debateable whether closing a select number of tube stations is having a beneficial or detrimental effect. If I were Mayor I might be persuaded to drop restrictions on cars in the City at a time like this, to at least allow essential workers to travel to work in some sort of isolation (edited to add: he has, from tomorrow - good). Northwick Park (North West London NHS) is the first to declare a critical incident and the fact that temporary hospital re-configuration is being carried out speaks to the comparative level of concern.

There is a mindset of over-reaction and ambivalence in some - they just see it as a virus that will result in minor to moderate unpleasantness for them and the vast majority of people - we've seen that on this thread. What isn't being communicated well enough is that it isn't just the virus per se that is driving policy of social distancing and self-isolation (though of course there will be significant and justified concern about the virus in, and for, the elderly/frail). It's also the impact on our health system, a key element of our Critical National Infrastructure. We must understand that if hospitals, surgeries etc. become overwhelmed with COVID-19 cases, there will be no space for day to day support and no-one to give it.

In my opinion this point needs to be communicated much more clearly. If we don't manage this, and you slip and break an ankle, you may be waiting some time ...