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Coronavirus (merged threads)

Sep 25, 2010
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Would it be a good idea, to follow, what China, Singapore and South Korea, has done, in combat his virus.

Their figures, are now falling ‘slowly’, as they recover, ‘slowly’, it will be a bit draconian, but in the long run, it might be better.
 
Apr 15, 2004
2,785
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East Devon
Martyn":2y5rva4d said:
Would it be a good idea, to follow, what China, Singapore and South Korea, has done, in combat his virus.

Their figures, are now falling ‘slowly’, as they recover, ‘slowly’, it will be a bit draconian, but in the long run, it might be better.
God knows I can't stand this government (Boris Johnson in particular...and Patel....and Gove....and well all of 'em really) - but TBH I think they have done quite well (so far) to follow the scientific advice and behave in a proportionate way based on the evidence. So No I don't think it does make sense to just blindly follow what others have done in different circumstances and possibly for unscientific & political reasons.

The virus cannot be stopped from spreading anywhere in the world now. So it has to be a judgement as to the best way the outbreak can be managed so it spreads in a way that avoids an overwhelming strain on the health service and allows the most vulnerable to be protected from getting it until a vaccine has been developed (which could be at least 18 months) and be treated in hospitals that can cope. All this talk about Taiwan etc. taking massive draconian actions and 'successfully' stopping the spread misses the point. As soon as they lift the restrictions which cannot be sustained indefinitely there will be a 'bounce' in infection rates that could well be worse. The concept of 'herd immunity' is quite valid - the more people that get Corona virus then recover, the more people there are that then cannot then pass it on and so block transmission. When we reach the point where 95% of people are naturally immune it cannot circulate in the general population - but at the moment nobody is immune apart from the relative handful who have now recovered. Pretending you can keep it out and make it disappear by closing borders, schools, football matches etc. is a nonsense.

So let's just LISTEN carefully to the experts - let them enter all the data they have into their mathematical models and act in a rational way. Anyway - I've heard it's actually all caused by the 5G network that Huawei rolled out in China in the first place :whistle:
 
Sep 25, 2010
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Martyn":1sh7ggw3 said:
Would it be a good idea, to follow, what China, Singapore and South Korea, has done, to combat this virus.

Their figures, are now falling ‘slowly’, as they recover, ‘slowly’, it will be a bit draconian, but in the long run, it might be better.
 
Jan 20, 2004
687
2
You are right Ave it, the science makes sense, and in normal circumstances I would trust our government to trust their top scientific and medical advisors as to the appropriate action to take.

However I can't help but feel this semi 'non action' suits this ' right wing, wolf in sheeps clothing' government down to the ground. A government who, so far, have swept any mention of social care or compassion for the elderly and vulnerable under the carpet in preference for their agenda and version of economic growth.

Johnson's podium message sent a chill throughout the country when he told us to prepare to lose many of our loved ones, and the cynic in me had visions of his 'eugenically' minded advisors rubbing their hands at the opportunity for a good old clear out of the log jam of elderly, clogging up current and future hospital beds, and reducing the burden of the NHS on the Treasury. A chilling but purely scientific Himmleresc approach.

Both the Trump administration and the current UK government (without admitting it) view publicly funded health care as a burden on their economic models of capitalism, and have watched this virus evolve from China for months. Yet their inaction is dumbfounding. If, albeit expensive, they had enforced testing of individuals arriving from China from the start and any other countries then infected, they may well have staved this off untill a vaccine could be found.
 
Apr 15, 2004
2,785
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East Devon
I do share your cynicism of Johnson et al's motives Mike for their approach so far. It's amazing how they suddenly want to listen to experts and evidence to form policy isn't it?...........after totally ignoring it over Brexit (DOH! DON'T MENTION THE B-WORD :doh: ). Nevertheless I think they have acted reasonably so far and don't really see how "enforced testing" of people arriving from China would have worked. Nobody else did as far as I know because early on nobody quite understood what was happening (when were there tests available?). Indeed the reason we are not in the state Italy is in is that our tracing of infected individuals' contacts was apparently excellent from very early on. No amount of enforced testing would stop it getting here - it's all about managing the spread now.

I am disapointed they gave in to the pressure over 'mass gatherings'. The evidence still says it will have a minimal effect and the justification such events put a pressure on the public services is really weak in many cases. OK - for something like the London marathon it's obvious and understandable. But I have just heard from organisers that the Taunton half marathon I entered has been cancelled. How the F'eck can that be justified? An open air event with about 900 hundred runners (by definition feeling fit and well) and no more than a handful of St John's ambulance volunteers on hand. Complete irrational boll0x :furious: ...Yet tonight we watched Ant & Dec's show with hundreds of whooping people crammed in a hot, sweaty TV studio - (although Ant did make a big thing of using hand gel - so that's alright then :facepalm: ).
 
Jan 20, 2004
687
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When I mentioned 'enforced testing' I meant the routine swabbing at passport control and collection of a contactable number and address for if it proved positive a day or so later., only for those flights and individuals that were flying in from known infected countries, the tests that they are carrying out now to great acclaim that however strikes of shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted, if we were ever going to slow this thing down.

For many years now we have expected a viral pandemic just like this, so it is astonishing that we are not prepared or, as I now cynically feel may be the case, we have been prepared for Darwinian natural selection and the 'herd' solution all along.

I agree, what is the point of banning external mass gatherings unless they are going to close all pubs, clubs and internal places of work where the virus is more likely to be passed on.

Changing from discussion to reflection I am reminded of being sat in line with the goal line in Zoo Corner when we played Leeds a few years back, on a cold but sunny day, one of the few occasions in recent years that the Barn Park End was full to the brim with away fans. When they scored I was amazed at the massive cloud of steaming vapour, reflected by the sunlight, that was propelled beyond the goal line into the penalty area, as four thousand fans exhaled at once. :crazy:

Our keeper (Luke or Romain) must have inhaled a germ or two that day. :shock:
 
Dec 6, 2012
2,174
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Plymouth, England, PL2 3HG
They will soon be announcing that over 70s won't be allowed out for 4 months!
What about those who have to go and get their pensions or take their dogs for walks which could be the only exercise they get and who will monitor it?????
I'm 71 and I'm dreading the next few months!!!!
 

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Hopefully this is when the community spirit will kick in. My neighbours are in their 80's and very independent but if they're forced to lock down I'll certainly do any running around for them.
 

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pedro91":1eima6vn said:
They will soon be announcing that over 70s won't be allowed out for 4 months!
What about those who have to go and get their pensions or take their dogs for walks which could be the only exercise they get and who will monitor it?????
I'm 71 and I'm dreading the next few months!!!!

Just watched (again) Matt Hancock 'answering' questions on this. Gawd help us if that is one of our finest minds bending it's power to solve this problem. :facepalm:

Talking about manufacture of ventilators he observed: 'Well I couldn't make one'.
Well I think we probably already knew/guessed that Matt!!

So, onto my 'vulnerability'. I'm 69 in July so not 70 yet, so presumably safer than someone who is 18 months older then?
I'm afraid I tick too many boxes re. asthma, cancer, diabetes, to take this lightly.

So, they are going to bring in a ban in a few weeks. Asked why the delay, he said:

1) Because it is a big ask, a long time for people to self isolate.
True Matt, but does that mean it is safe for me to act 'normally' until you bring it in?

2) We have to ensure the NHS are ready to deal with the numbers.
Again Matt, in the meantime I'm safe to carry on until you bring it in?

3) We need more ventilators. As many as we can get. I couldn't make one.
So, until you get the ventilators I can carry on until you bring it in?

It is just nonsense tbh. They've obviously accepted the fact that many elderly vulnerable people are going to die whilst they wrestle with COBRAS!! When enough of the herd have got it, they might try to save some of the elderly. Be a shame if they all went, eh Matt?

Not even allowing for the fact that he has used the term 'self isolating' which has been reserved for those diagnosed or with symptoms.

Being older isn't a disease Matt! It ain't a symptom!! :facepalm:
 
Sep 25, 2010
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Why is it now he is just asking for more ventilators, how many weeks are we into this crisis.

It is now, after 10 years after austerity, and lack of funding, to the NHS, they they are seeking ventilators

What a mess
 
Jun 28, 2011
1,503
2
Plymouth
Martyn":16p8msbw said:
Why is it now he is just asking for more ventilators, how many weeks are we into this crisis.

It is now, after 10 years after austerity, and lack of funding, to the NHS, they they are seeking ventilators

What a mess

This is up to NHS Procurement, who are still saying they are ready and geared up for a pandemic.
Having said that, if they are as useless as MOD procurement, over the last 50 years, then we are in trouble.
Only time will tell.
 
Apr 15, 2004
2,785
7
East Devon
pedro91":1sndplt8 said:
They will soon be announcing that over 70s won't be allowed out for 4 months!
What about those who have to go and get their pensions or take their dogs for walks which could be the only exercise they get and who will monitor it?????
I'm 71 and I'm dreading the next few months!!!!
Self-isolating doesn't mean self-imprisonment though - which I don't think is being made clear. It means avoiding people and places as much as possible to minimise the risk of infection. But walking the dog, gardening, or going for a stroll on the beach pose virtually zero risk to yourself or others. You are obviously quite computer-savvy (unlike my mother-in-law who is a complete techno-phobe) so can get groceries delivered and stay in touch with family and friends virtually. The other point is that if you are relatively fit with none of the underlying health problems mentioned then being 71 does not put you at particular risk - indeed much less than a 50 year old who is obese with heart issues & diabetes. It's the underlying health issues that tend to come with age that is the major factor - not your age per se. I understand your worries & I'm certainly not belittling your concerns at all just trying to be a bit more positive.

I heard a text from someone on the radio just now who is a single Mum who has stage 4 cancer with two teenagers and a younger child and she says she is terrified the virus will kill her and leave her kids with no other family to turn to. She is at loss what to do - keep herself & her kids completely isolated (the oldest is due to dit GCSE's) for months? It really is a complete nightmare for some people.
 
May 16, 2016
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We got into Spain the Day before the total lock down was announced. We're now stuck in the Apartment with only Food or Medicinal (in our case) trips allowed. Luckily we have a large Terrace and small Garden Area to potter about in. Workers are allowed to travel but with proof of need to do so. Talks of Fines / Arrests for anyone (other than Dog Walkers) caught wandering about. We cant leave yet anyway, even if there were Flights, as we have our Pets here and I know I'd lose that argument anyway.

Obviously, the Infection and Death Rate is higher here but I wouldn't be surprised to see similar prevention measures brought into force in the UK. Interesting to note the Cultural differences, there was a bit of a mad rush on Saturday morning at the local Lidl but without any of the over the top aggressive Bingeing being seen elsewhere, despite the fact the 14 day shutdown was looming. Supermarkets are still opening but with Strict entry and enforced 1Metre segregation rules with Card only purchases. I've not been out yet but am told the Local Police are checking Cars.

My Mum, at Home in the UK is in her 80s and is preparing to be stuck indoors for the Duration, luckily we have a strong Family network to support her. Hopefully, those without this will see their local communities rally round and common sense will take over the Selfish attitude that seems prevalent in the modern UK.

We're located within sight of a Hospital (Hopefully not needed) and for the last few nights everyone has been out to their Balconies to Applaud the Health Workers. Quite a humbling and unifying experience to be honest as you can hear it coming from all Quarters. Tonight, apparently the Community singing might kick in !

My only concern is that by locking everyone in, the Infection Rate might well drop but suddenly shoot up again when everyone pours out at once thinking they're safe. Maybe the dribs and drabs approach the UK is taking might work by slowly building up a resistance while the more vunerable members of Society are better protected, or at least in with a decent chance of getting NHS Treatment. However, I wont be surprised to see stricter controls at Home before too long.
 
Aug 17, 2011
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Kings Tamerton
I'm not sure I understand this "Italy is two weeks ahead of etc etc". Surely it's the culture of family get togethers and going out to restaurants that happens far more in pleasant climates than ours is the reason Italy has more cases than us. It might well be that tourism at this time of year is another reason warmer countries have been hit harder! Maybe, thankfully the weather we've had for the last month has meant people weren't mixing and spreading the virus as much and maybe we're not two weeks behind but we've just been affected less.

We've closed down sport very early based on the Italy experience so maybe we've seen the worst of it in comparison. The virus came over from China at the same time surely?
 
Dec 30, 2004
3,137
3
Brighton
Well, from everything we're hearing it certainly doesn't sound as if we're anywhere near peak yet.

Thanks for the post in the other thread, Ade. Our son is 25 and he hasn't got worse so we're not too worried - although he's never smoked, so a cough lasting well over a week is pretty odd. He works in a pub (or perhaps I should say he worked in a pub...) so talk about high risk of exposure!
 
Aug 17, 2011
8,185
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Kings Tamerton
MickyD":st66cb0p said:
Well, from everything we're hearing it certainly doesn't sound as if we're anywhere near peak yet.

Thanks for the post in the other thread, Ade. Our son is 25 and he hasn't got worse so we're not too worried - although he's never smoked, so a cough lasting well over a week is pretty odd. He works in a pub (or perhaps I should say he worked in a pub...) so talk about high risk of exposure!


No worries Micky, I re-read my post and I certainly wasn’t suggesting it was nothing to be concerned about, the very opposite in fact as I’ve been feeling lousy for a couple of days but however bad I feel, I don’t have any CV symptoms.

It’s a worry we have to live with for a while I guess.
 
Sep 6, 2006
10,903
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Ade the green":1v0du0sd said:
I'm not sure I understand this "Italy is two weeks ahead of etc etc". Surely it's the culture of family get togethers and going out to restaurants that happens far more in pleasant climates than ours is the reason Italy has more cases than us. It might well be that tourism at this time of year is another reason warmer countries have been hit harder! Maybe, thankfully the weather we've had for the last month has meant people weren't mixing and spreading the virus as much and maybe we're not two weeks behind but we've just been affected less.

We've closed down sport very early based on the Italy experience so maybe we've seen the worst of it in comparison. The virus came over from China at the same time surely?

Doesnt make much sense.
 

Ottawa Green

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Sep 18, 2003
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Ottawa, Canada
It is very interesting to hear how everyone is handling this.
Hear in Canada our numbers are way down on what it is in the UK Total: 433 confirmed (including 4 deaths, 10 resolved), 15 presumptive. Yet we have put in some very strong restrictions both Federally and Provincially, but some of the restrictions have giant loopholes, for instance we have restricted all air traffic to only Canadian citizens and /or residents, but then there is no restrictions to US, Mexican and Caribean citizens and relatives of Canadian citizens and/or residents.
Provincially Ontario this morning declared a state of emergency, meaning ALL restaurants bars, clubs are closed, groups of people are restricted to a maximum of 50 people. ALL schools, daycare centres, sports arenas are closed.
Any planes arriving from foreign countries are only allowed to land in 4 airports across the country, Montreal/Toronto/Calgary and Vancouver. Yet anyone arriving at any airport are not being tested for anything just a brief questioning by border guards and then let through, personally we saw this when we drove back to Canada from Florida, all we were asked was where did we live, when did we leave what $ amount of goods where we were bringing back, have a nice day. They never asked where did we go, where we in areas where Covid 19 was active, did we have any contact with anyone with a cough, nothing to do with the disease. Because of this and many complaints coming from citizens the provinces of Ontario, Quebec and Nova Scotia sent their own officials to check passengers arriving, all airports are Federally operated and this was the provincial rightly doing the Feds work.
Our son works for the Federal government and his department has basically shut down for at least the next 3 weeks, he has been told to keep logged in to the department and to check his e-mail for any work that is needed.
A lot of ideas are coming from local businesses, one is grocery stores are still open, but for the first 2 hours of business the stores are only open to senior citizens, this is because the stores are all sanitized overnight so when the seniors come in the store will be clean and sanitized and they will not have to mix with the general public. As i said ALL restaurants are closed but fast food restaurants are open for take away and drive through only.
 
I went down with a high temperature, racing pulse and the sweats and a general sense of ‘meh’ on Sunday. Now means I, my wife and son, are isolated for 14 days. Without any testing I’ve no idea whether I’ve had a common or garden virus (probably) or COVID19. I haven’t had the cough, but not everyone does, but I did have the fever and fatigue. Who knows? Pretty much slept for all Sunday and most of Monday. Feel ok now, with just a sore throat and a bit washed out. On the plus side, I’ve lost about 5 pounds in weight!

I’m not worried about that. I will be fine. My parents, I am worried about. But it’s the long term that is now so uncertain. The economic damage. The psychological damage. The societal damage. This is going to be bad, for quite a long time. It’s hard to make plans or assume that your reality now (your job, your income, your lifestyle and circumstances) will in any predictable way be similar in the months or even years ahead. It feels like a roulette wheel. And my kids are just starting their adult lives with what prospects? Life is on hold. After 10 previous years of austerity too.

Yesterday people have been asked to sacrifice their working lives for the health and well-being of everyone, and we will all need to help pay them back for it. We could start by taking some billions away from the hoarding 1%, many of whom own football clubs do they not? How about giving some of that wealth to a few nurses instead of player salaries.

And seeing football.... well it’s going to have to wait it’s turn.

This will be a field day for the crazies too. Evangelical types who think the end times are nigh. Prepare yourselves for nutters (well, we’ve had a few of them running countries too have we not?)