• Welcome to PASOTI (Sponsored by GA Solictors and Lang & Potter)
  • Hello guests - don't forget that by registering and signing up for Pasoti you'll see less adverts plus receive extras like free match tickets, taking part in polls, joining in the chat room and more. Come and join us!

Cooper or Laws

Apr 1, 2009
2,790
95
Would be madness to play Cooper at LWB especially as league two wide players caused him no end of issues defensively.

It will start off with C Grant l feel. l just think in a wing back system you need top players to play a specialist role and here is Argyle playing two midfielders they converted.
I'm sure we'd all like "top players" in every position in an ideal world. Whilst wing back is a specialist role, it is also essentially a hybrid position containing elements of defence and attack, and I think you will find that most players playing WB will have extensive experience of playing either at FB, or in MF, or both as in Edwards's case. Who are the proven "top players" wing backs at this level, and could we get close to affording them?
 

Metal Green Mickey

NHS Volunteer Supporter
Mar 14, 2009
5,148
278
I'm sure we'd all like "top players" in every position in an ideal world. Whilst wing back is a specialist role, it is also essentially a hybrid position containing elements of defence and attack, and I think you will find that most players playing WB will have extensive experience of playing either at FB, or in MF, or both as in Edwards's case. Who are the proven "top players" wing backs at this level, and could we get close to affording them?

Its not so much top players. It’s the right player.

Cooper isn’t a LWB. He is a good player though.

A WB needs the energy to get up and down that touchline. Edwards is perfect at this. They also need a ”final ball” in the last third as they are the width of the team. C Grant has this. Unfortunately, they both lack the other strength each one has.

As they are the width of the team, if this area doesn’t function you become pretty predictable.

Look at Brighton. They brought in Lampety to play that RWB role. As soon as they lost him to injury they lost an attacking dimension to their team.
 
Aug 24, 2009
187
34
I am not doubting Coopers ability to cross the ball however we should not be misguided of is overall ability simply because of this. We make no point in suggesting that if a player like Randell who made two fantastic defence splitting passes against Swansea, nothing came out of it but both deserved a goal because of the quality of the pass and would have been awarded an assist only if they had scored. Cooper takes an average corner or free kick, we score and he is rewarded with an assist. what a nonsense. I am not convinced that Cooper will even get in our starting 11 because apart from his ability to pass the ball with a degree of accuracy what else does he bring to the team other than his petulance which he regulary displays. Randell and Grant are both okay dead ball players so I am at a loss where Cooper fits in.
 
Apr 1, 2009
2,790
95
Its not so much top players. It’s the right player.

Cooper isn’t a LWB. He is a good player though.

A WB needs the energy to get up and down that touchline. Edwards is perfect at this. They also need a ”final ball” in the last third as they are the width of the team. C Grant has this. Unfortunately, they both lack the other strength each one has.

As they are the width of the team, if this area doesn’t function you become pretty predictable.

Look at Brighton. They brought in Lampety to play that RWB role. As soon as they lost him to injury they lost an attacking dimension to their team.
Again Mickey, are what you call the right players affordable? Rather than have examples in our league, you resort to talking about Brighton.

I actually agree with quite a bit that you say, but sometimes one has to be realistic in what we desire or expect in out team. It's relatively easy to point out what our players lack - if they were the complete article they wouldn't play for Argyle. We're a third tier club without a lot of money, where is the money to sign the "right players" you want, for example, in the WB positions? It's relatively easy to say that Edwards (the manager's choice as captain) is not a WB, and that Mayor (the manager's signature player) is not a CM, but where's the money to recruit what you see as the "right" players?
 
Oct 15, 2017
94
16
Who would you prefer at LWB, a fit Cooper or Laws, personally its a no brainer, Laws without a doubt. I fail to see what Cooper brings to the team, In our promotion year he did okay with his crossing ability although prior to his injury last season he did not bring a lot, his tackling is terrible, his tracking back is equally as bad. Laws as all the attributes and given time he will develop into a very good player at our level.

My brain tells me Cooper, Laws time will come.
 

Metal Green Mickey

NHS Volunteer Supporter
Mar 14, 2009
5,148
278
Again Mickey, are what you call the right players affordable? Rather than have examples in our league, you resort to talking about Brighton.

I actually agree with quite a bit that you say, but sometimes one has to be realistic in what we desire or expect in out team. It's relatively easy to point out what our players lack - if they were the complete article they wouldn't play for Argyle. We're a third tier club without a lot of money, where is the money to sign the "right players" you want, for example, in the WB positions? It's relatively easy to say that Edwards (the manager's choice as captain) is not a WB, and that Mayor (the manager's signature player) is not a CM, but where's the money to recruit what you see as the "right" players?

What lm trying to say is that Lowe has his system.

We go on about Camara about how aggressive he is and how he wins the ball back. Well he was a free transfer from Crawley. He fits the dynamic of being able to press from midfield in a Lowe system.

If you put C Grant in that same position the pressing is not as effective.

At the end of the day Lowe has his system. I hope it all comes together for the sake of our football club. Yet, here we are trying to create an attacking team and we rely on Mayor. And most of the time, l feel in this current system, he is too deep to hurt teams. If Mayor is a CM, why is his best attacking work always on the left wing?

l look at Crewe. They don’t seem to have a problem finding or producing good attacking midfielders on the ball at a budget cost.
 

JannerinCardiff

Pasoti Donor
Jul 16, 2018
3,978
199
Would be madness to play Cooper at LWB especially as league two wide players caused him no end of issues defensively.

It will start off with C Grant l feel. l just think in a wing back system you need top players to play a specialist role and here is Argyle playing two midfielders they converted.

I agree with this. Conor Grant had something like 13/14 assists last season, he’s surely starting our first league match at LWB?

also I’d hope that George Cooper will be played at RM this season once he’s back to fitness.

here’s another one… how about Adam
Randell at RM, he’s arguably the best presser in our squad at the moment I’d say from what I’ve seen and he played right wing for Torquay and did well…
 

Metal Green Mickey

NHS Volunteer Supporter
Mar 14, 2009
5,148
278
I agree with this. Conor Grant had something like 13/14 assists last season, he’s surely starting our first league match at LWB?

also I’d hope that George Cooper will be played at RM this season once he’s back to fitness.

here’s another one… how about Adam
Randell at RM, he’s arguably the best presser in our squad at the moment I’d say from what I’ve seen and he played right wing for Torquay and did well…

The problem with Grant is that he has a good left foot but unless Mayor makes the space for him then he just is totally ineffective.

After tonight l’ve totally changed my mind. The only way to rescue this wing back system is to play with attack minded players, like GC, or to play with raw pace. We need to exploit the space. When we get out wide it’s too slow and too easy to defend.

I rather see GC at LWB than C Grant because he can take a player on and use the width. Yes it exposes us defensively but it’s better than what we currently have.

As for Randell, why not? Why not try something like that and move Edwards to CM.

I think Lowe is going to struggle if he doesn’t either change the system or have a rethink with his wing backs. The other issue is lack of composure in final third. However, until we struggle he won’t change things so let’s hope lm wrong because l want us to do well this season.
 
  • Like
Reactions: davie nine
Jul 6, 2011
3,431
11
Have to admit I'm not a conor Grant fan, for me he's too negative and proved it once again against Middlesborough. Constantly sideways and back.
Scoring the occasional spectacular doesn't really do it for me, there has to be more and his passback preference did once give it straight to an opposing player who scored, so that isn't always the best tactic. Until Cooper is fit to play for me either Galloway or Law.