• Welcome to PASOTI (Sponsored by GA Solictors and Lang & Potter)
  • Hello guests - don't forget that by registering and signing up for Pasoti you'll see less adverts plus receive extras like free match tickets, taking part in polls, joining in the chat room and more. Come and join us!

Climate crisis tipping point?

Jan 2, 2010
1,375
33
To be fair most farmers tackle their own climate damage to some degree.
When you have just 100 companies creating more than two thirds of the problem, it's them that need a phone call from Greta Thunburg.

Apparently some energy companies can reach 5% of the total on their own. But hey, we all got to charge our phones, right?
 

MickyD

Pasoti Donor
Dec 30, 2004
3,261
47
Brighton
Speaking of fossil fuels and meat: just about the same time as Margaret Thatcher was so presciently destroying the British coal industry, I became a vegetarian. I always knew that she and I were kindred spirits in some indefinable way, and now thanks to Boris Johnson's recent remarks it's all fallen into place.

But more seriously: I can understand how it must be really, really galling for so many "emergent" countries around the world to be told that they have to cut back drastically on greenhouse gases and so on when, as usual, we rich Westerners are the ones who have enjoyed all the benefits and riches of the industrial revolution for a couple of centuries and more, thereby having brought about the climate crisis in the first place - and often having stripped their own countries of resources to help us along the way. We had all the fun and, almost the moment they get to join the party, they're being told not only that it's all over but that they have to help us clear up all the mess.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ave IT and jespafc
Sep 2, 2008
1,792
23
So the "I'll be alright Jack" type post was what, a joke?
I wasn't posting in that way. Maybe you should try reading it again and not from a judgmental perspective.

Read it from the perspective that perhaps I was just personally happy that when this planet starts collapsing in on itself, I wont be around to experience it.

Would you like to still be around to experience it?
 
Jan 20, 2004
762
39
Let me take that spade out your hands to stop you digging any further.

From whatever perspective you would like us to understand your perspective, maybe you are saying that although 'perhaps' you are just personally happy that when the planet starts collapsing in on itself you won't be around to experience it, but forgot to add that you would be personally unhappy for those that are left behind and will ?
 
  • Like
Reactions: IJN

jespafc

Foodbank Donor
Oct 23, 2005
1,704
49
www.johnstanlake.com
Speaking of fossil fuels and meat: just about the same time as Margaret Thatcher was so presciently destroying the British coal industry, I became a vegetarian. I always knew that she and I were kindred spirits in some indefinable way, and now thanks to Boris Johnson's recent remarks it's all fallen into place.

But more seriously: I can understand how it must be really, really galling for so many "emergent" countries around the world to be told that they have to cut back drastically on greenhouse gases and so on when, as usual, we rich Westerners are the ones who have enjoyed all the benefits and riches of the industrial revolution for a couple of centuries and more, thereby having brought about the climate crisis in the first place - and often having stripped their own countries of resources to help us along the way. We had all the fun and, almost the moment they get to join the party, they're being told not only that it's all over but that they have to help us clear up all the mess.
And then people from Western developed countries moan when citizens of these countries have the audacity to want to move here and share some of our luxury resources such as clean air and water.

The climate change crisis will (and is already of course) causing the mass movement of people due to their home countries and regions becoming practically inhospitable. Central Africa is a prime example and Bangladesh is another.

Addressing climate issues asap is paramount, but so too is an attitude of global togetherness in terms of migration and acceptance of more fluid national borders.
 
Sep 2, 2008
1,792
23
Let me take that spade out your hands to stop you digging any further.

From whatever perspective you would like us to understand your perspective, maybe you are saying that although 'perhaps' you are just personally happy that when the planet starts collapsing in on itself you won't be around to experience it, but forgot to add that you would be personally unhappy for those that are left behind and will ?
Wtf! Are you actually telling me what I should be saying?

Why is it so difficult for you, and it would seem IJN, to understand that I was simply saying that I’m glad that I won’t be around when it all goes belly up.

What the hell is up with you people?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Guiri Green

Biggs

Administrator
Staff member
Schuey Sponsor
NHS Volunteer Supporter
Pasoti Donor
NHS Cake Donor
Feb 14, 2010
7,941
294
Plymouth/London
Speaking of fossil fuels and meat: just about the same time as Margaret Thatcher was so presciently destroying the British coal industry, I became a vegetarian. I always knew that she and I were kindred spirits in some indefinable way, and now thanks to Boris Johnson's recent remarks it's all fallen into place.

But more seriously: I can understand how it must be really, really galling for so many "emergent" countries around the world to be told that they have to cut back drastically on greenhouse gases and so on when, as usual, we rich Westerners are the ones who have enjoyed all the benefits and riches of the industrial revolution for a couple of centuries and more, thereby having brought about the climate crisis in the first place - and often having stripped their own countries of resources to help us along the way. We had all the fun and, almost the moment they get to join the party, they're being told not only that it's all over but that they have to help us clear up all the mess.

Totally agree, with the caveat that fast food, petrol guzzling cars and hyper consumerism haven’t improved our lives that much.

These countries can hopefully take the best (and cleanest) technologies that we’ve enjoyed, while not adopting the more harmful ones.
 
Nov 15, 2011
1,902
312
Wtf! Are you actually telling me what I should be saying?

Why is it so difficult for you, and it would seem IJN, to understand that I was simply saying that I’m glad that I won’t be around when it all goes belly up.

What the hell is up with you people?
Potty doesn’t like people telling him what to say (even though no one did that) but he does like telling everyone to block someone cos he doesn’t agree with them. Hey ho.

But he does illustrate the problem that when many people think it’s unlikely to affect them that’s their first concern.

From wanting to pay a little less tax rather than have better schools or hospitals, to fast food, to buying cheap rubbish next day delivery on Amazon , most of us sometimes choose short term gratification rather than everyone’s long term interest, and I’m guilty too. It’s hard to see how we’ll break the habit.
 

MickyD

Pasoti Donor
Dec 30, 2004
3,261
47
Brighton
Totally agree, with the caveat that fast food, petrol guzzling cars and hyper consumerism haven’t improved our lives that much.
Indeed not, but they must seem very attractive when you've never had them, especially as they come along with electricity and clean water in every home, modern healthcare, abundant cheap food, and all the other benefits of living in a rich, technology-based society.
 
Mar 7, 2010
5,829
376
Manchester
Before we start pointing the finger at industrialising nations:

The wealthiest 1% of the world’s population were responsible for the emission of more than twice as much carbon dioxide as the poorer half of the world from 1990 to 2015, according to new research.

That there is the issue. This isn't a country v country issue...this is a product of the pursuit of wealth by a minute cabal of hyper capitalists.

There's a certain sick irony to Jeff 'cowboy hat' Bezos blasting his phallus rocket into space and telling us it's so we can save the world! Almost as ironic as the name of his firm.
How they must have laughed when they sat round the table and decided to name a massive consumerist, co2 pumping business after the world's green lung.

Meanwhile, Branston tells the world 'anyone can do this' from his zero gravity joy ride. Can you imagine if EVERYONE did do it? The world would be frazzled already.
Again a certain irony, coming from the bloke who has done more than any to make cross country rail travel completely unaffordable, meaning it's cheaper to fly or drive around the UK.

“This isn’t about people who have one family holiday a year, but people who are taking long-haul flights every month – it’s a fairly small group of people”
 
Last edited:
Apr 15, 2004
2,892
168
East Devon
I can understand how it must be really, really galling for so many "emergent" countries around the world to be told that they have to cut back drastically on greenhouse gases and so on when, as usual, we rich Westerners are the ones who have enjoyed all the benefits and riches of the industrial revolution for a couple of centuries and more, thereby having brought about the climate crisis in the first place - and often having stripped their own countries of resources to help us along the way. We had all the fun and, almost the moment they get to join the party, they're being told not only that it's all over but that they have to help us clear up all the mess.
Absolutely spot on. Countries like India, China, Brazil etc. have hundreds of millions (billions?) living in the kind of poverty we cannot begin to imagine. Now we tell them their attempts to industrialise to generate the wealth that we have enjoyed must be stopped and we point the accusing finger at them. For example, Bolsanaro may be a complete a-hole but why should we expect Brazil not to exploit their one great natural resource (the Amazon rainforest) for the good of the planet, for the good of all of us, if WE are not willing to compensate them?

To save the world we need a new world order. We share the same planet, the same air, the same atmosphere, the same seas. F'eck, COVID shows us we even share the same spit! We all live together, intimately connected on a rock hurtling thru' space protected from oblivion by an atmosphere barely 20 miles thick.*

We can't do this on a country-by-country basis. Whenever you hear astronauts talk about viewing the Earth from space everyone single one of them are not only awed by the beauty but struck by how the borders and individual countries we are so obsessed by down here suddenly seem to vanish ....replaced by just one fragile, blueish white globe glowing in the darkness.

All the parochial, flag waving, nationalistic bollox has to stop and we have to start to get our heads around the concept that we all live or die together. There aren't easy answers. How do you deal with the world's a-holes (the likes of Trump, Bolsanaro, Putin etc.) ? I dunno - but there has to be a way ....... Maybe the market-based capitalist system that has created both great progress for mankind but also landed us in this horrible mess can be tweaked a bit, or a lot, to keep its good creative points but genuinely spread the benefits for all of us?

[* For the nerds, technically the atmosphere is about 300 miles thick apparently but virtually all the mass is in the bottom 10 to 30 miles - the bit that affects the weather and protects all life from radiation etc.].
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mike E

The Doctor

Schuey Sponsor
NHS Cake Donor
T.O Support
Sep 15, 2003
6,783
580
[* For the nerds, technically the atmosphere is about 300 miles thick apparently but virtually all the mass is in the bottom 10 to 30 miles - the bit that affects the weather and protects all life from radiation etc.].
Indeed - in fact 99% of the mass of the atmosphere is below ~31km, 90% is below ~17km and 50% is below ~5.5km.

What we think of as weather all occurs in the lowest 10-15km (the 'troposphere') and is basically the result of two major energy imbalances i) the excess input of solar energy towards the equator and away from the poles and ii) the excess of input of solar energy into the Earth's surface rather than into the overlying atmosphere. These imbalances force material to move from the warmer regions to the colder regions, so from the equator to the poles and from the surface into the atmosphere, carrying heat energy as they go (with corresponding return flows of cold material back the other way). This movement of material (air in the atmosphere, water in the oceans) redistributes energy around the planet and results in what we know of as weather in the atmosphere (basically movements of air of different temperatures and moisture contents and the 'water processes' associated with clouds, precipitation etc.

Actually, a lot of the important protection from radiation happens higher up (say 50km altitude) and is due to the presence of ozone (hence the importance of thinning of the ozone layer caused by injections of CFCs and other chemicals into the atmosphere).

By adding so much carbon dioxide and methane into the atmosphere (actually not very much in absolute terms but a very little goes a long way) we've caused energy that would normally radiate away from the Earth's surface into space thereby cooling the planet to become trapped (absorbed by those extra gases) and then re-radiated back down to the surface. This is a natural process (Greenhouse Effect) that makes the planet ~33 degrees C warmer than it would otherwise be (so about +15 deg C on average rather than the -18 deg C it would be without this atmospheric absorption) but we've enhanced it (and are enhancing it further). By increasing the temperature of the surface in this way we've given the planet more excess heat that needs to move away from the surface and thus increased the intensity of the natural processes that do this. Hence as well as being warmer we have more intense weather.

Can you tell that I cover all of this (but with pictures and some nice maths thrown in) in the first few lectures of my second year Meteorology module...?! ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Quinny and Ave IT