Charlton v Argyle Match Thread

[mutley marvel]

Just listened to Schuey's post match interview- he was very subdued & gave a very honest appraisal of tonight's horror show

He looked absolutely gutted, disappointed & was probably reigning in his emotions when speaking- he will have plenty of food for thought before Saturday comes around

 

[demportdave]

We seen the type of defending in league one for two years.

Whether it was a Opoku, Watts, Aimson to Wilson, Scarr & Gillesphy.

Whether it was 5-0 at Fleetwood or 5-1 tonight. The effort has always been there.

The players can’t figure out when to play out from the back and when not too.

I feel there Is nothing to be too down hearted about. Just have to be realistic that if we continue to play this way more nights like tonight will happen because the players are being asked to go things that their skill set can’t do consistently.

We seen the type of defending in league one for two years.

Whether it was a Opoku, Watts, Aimson to Wilson, Scarr & Gillesphy.

Whether it was 5-0 at Fleetwood or 5-1 tonight. The effort has always been there.

The players can’t figure out when to play out from the back and when not too. You simply need to sense the danger. And lm including Cooper in this too. He simply doesn’t recognise when to knock it long if danger is about.

I don’t think we played poorly. We just lost control of this match via poor decision making. That is where we are as club. Two years ago we blamed it young, experienced players. Today we are blaming experienced league one defenders. Unfortunately, we will keep giving teams chances by our poor decision making.

I feel there Is nothing to be too down hearted about. Just have to be realistic that if we continue to play this way more nights like tonight will happen because the players are being asked to go things that their skill set can’t do consistently.

I know you think about what you post and that you usually try to be constructive in your criticism, but what you are saying here is actually quite a strong indictment of Schumacher and his inability to realise the limitations of his players.

We are constantly reminded of our budgetary limitations compared to many of the other teams in League 1. Perhaps from a footballing perspective we should cut our cloth accordingly so that there aren't more nights like tonight, as you seem to indicate there will be.

Maybe he needs to be a little bit more pragmatic in his approach. I am sure that Scumacher is a really great guy but he is not the football Messiah that some of the sycophants on here seem to think he is.

It's still early in the new season and time will tell, but it looks like Scumacher hasn't learned much from last season. I'm hoping to be proved wrong.

 

[MGM]

I know you think about what you post and that you usually try to be constructive in your criticism, but what you are saying here is actually quite a strong indictment of Schumacher and his inability to realise the limitations of his players.

We are constantly reminded of our budgetary limitations compared to many of the other teams in League 1. Perhaps from a footballing perspective we should cut our cloth accordingly so that there aren't more nights like tonight, as you seem to indicate there will be.

Maybe he needs to be a little bit more pragmatic in his approach. I am sure that Scumacher is a really great guy but he is not the football Messiah that some of the sycophants on here seem to think he is.

It's still early in the new season and time will tell, but it looks like Scumacher hasn't learned much from last season. I'm hoping to be proved wrong.

Who brought in Gillesphy, Wilson and Scarr. They were Lowe signings.

Be interesting to see at the end of the season who stays.

Galloway is excellent but can’t last 90 mins at moment. So that only leaves the young Dutch on loan player.

I’ve seen them all perform well. And all perform badly. They are consistently inconsistent.

Maybe he believes he can coach them to get better but if their mistakes are repetitive then what does that say? How many times last season did we try and play silly balls into midfield when the midfielder has no better than a 50/50 chance of winning it? Yet how many times did we boot the ball long for Hardie to chase? We simply can’t understand which option we need to take.

Like l said they doing their best. They just can’t stop the mistakes. Some games we get punished. Some games we don’t.

 

[justanotherfan]

Tonight we found out why some managers still tell their defenders and goalkeeper to just f***king get rid of it.

We were actually playing ok but two unbelievably casual passages of play and it was game over.

There weren't complex tactical reasons for the defeat and there isn't really anything that can be done on the training ground to rectify it.

Either the players are good enough to not play s**t passes around their own penalty area, and were just half asleep tonight, or they're not, in which case this will be a more difficult season than we thought.

I'm cautiously optimistic that it will prove to be a one-off but Gillesphey in particular can't show up like that again. And I also thought Cooper was very sloppy in the build up to the penalty, almost a bit of showboating in the way he lobbed the pass out instead of launching it up the pitch.

I think it was the way the pass was lobbed at him, he could get no purchase on the ball.

 

[PinkertonGreen]

It’s times like this I feel we miss Pan’s athleticism and energy in midfield.

 

[MGM]

He needs to look up more. And then pass.

The good news Schumacher said the same in the interview after the game.

 

[mutley marvel]

You could say we are consistently inconsistent - some games we ride our luck & gat away with it & other games we are schooled as shown by today's result.

You are never going to eradicate errors but you need to make better choices in your decision making so you do not fall into the same bad habits

Schuey needs to address the same rinse repeat cycle that appears when the players hit the self distruct button

 

[Emu]

Who brought in Gillesphy, Wilson and Scarr. They were Lowe signings.

Be interesting to see at the end of the season who stays.

This is true. However, the new incumbent has had enough time to decide if these players fit in with his vision and are of appropriate quality.

Without naming names, one of these is patently not.

 

[MGM]

This is true. However, the new incumbent has had enough time to decide if these players fit in with his vision and are of appropriate quality.

Without naming names, one of these is patently not.

Yes but all out of contract this season.

The club didn’t want to recruit a whole new team. And getting rid of them would of meant this. I feel we may not see many of these players again after this season.

 

[jimsing]

I know you think about what you post and that you usually try to be constructive in your criticism, but what you are saying here is actually quite a strong indictment of Schumacher and his inability to realise the limitations of his players.

We are constantly reminded of our budgetary limitations compared to many of the other teams in League 1. Perhaps from a footballing perspective we should cut our cloth accordingly so that there aren't more nights like tonight, as you seem to indicate there will be.

Maybe he needs to be a little bit more pragmatic in his approach. I am sure that Scumacher is a really great guy but he is not the football Messiah that some of the sycophants on here seem to think he is.

It's still early in the new season and time will tell, but it looks like Scumacher hasn't learned much from last season. I'm hoping to be proved wrong.

Maybe Shuey has got the best he can get with the budget that he has been given. Maybe the squad is the best that we could possibly get, and you are asking for the impossible.

I really thought we would pay for Saturdays match in all that heat. By playing almost the same team I think we did, a few of them were not a patch on what they did on Saturday, Joe for example, but with our injuries what alternative did Shuey have?

The best teams win their home matches, and pick up some points away from home. There are a lot more points to be won yet!!!

Why is it everyone gets to meltdown when we lose? 2-0 down and down to ten men in the first half, what did you expect? We lost, lets just move on.

We start again on Saturday.

 

[Nelson Norris]

Just before Charlton’s second goal I was about to say that I thought Argyle were getting properly on top in the game and had every chance of going on to win it. But I held my tongue for a few seconds knowing that to say such a thing would be a curse that brought a Charlton goal. In those few seconds Charlton won the ball and the penalty was awarded. Just thinking the thought was enough to jinx things.

I can’t remember watching a game where we passed the ball to opposition players or out of play as many times as we did in the first half. We looked fairly bright when we were attacking, especially just before the second goal, but we’re never going to get anything out of a game when we give the opposition so many gifts.

I was critical of Wilson after the Peterborough cup game and I‘ll say the same thing again - he just doesn’t look at all happy on the pitch at the moment. Something feels wrong there.

I have no idea what SS was trying to achieve with his substitutions. It was like a random assortment of changes designed to muck up any shape or pattern that the team might have been trying to build.

Whittaker’s goal was nice but boy does he need to remember that he had teammates.

If Galloway is fit enough then he should start in place of Gillesphey on Saturday - he was really excellent when he came on tonight. I’d also put Lonwijk in for the suspended Wilson and suspect that he will hold onto the place when Wilson is available again.

I thought Charlton were an excellent side - very fluent passing, switching the ball quickly and with real attacking threat - a very dangerous team.

Charlton excellent? No. Played us well? Yes. They did the same last season, but not to such devastating effect.

In spite of our sloppiness we were still in it up until the pen and sending off.

I’ll accept that we were poor tonight, but I wouldn’t go so far as to Charlton we’re excellent.

Too many not at the races that’s for sure. A very disappointing night.

Silver linings: Galloway, Whitaker’s goal, and the Green Army singing from beginning to end. Adding to that lots to learn from 🤞🏽

 

[PL2 3DQ]

We seen the type of defending in league one for two years.

Whether it was a Opoku, Watts, Aimson to Wilson, Scarr & Gillesphy.

Whether it was 5-0 at Fleetwood or 5-1 tonight. The effort has always been there.

The players can’t figure out when to play out from the back and when not too. You simply need to sense the danger. And lm including Cooper in this too. He simply doesn’t recognise when to knock it long if danger is about.

I don’t think we played poorly. We just lost control of this match via poor decision making. That is where we are as club. Two years ago we blamed it young, experienced players. Today we are blaming experienced league one defenders. Unfortunately, we will keep giving teams chances by our poor decision making.

As an attacking unit l think the set up is looking better. Yet the lack of consistency with a cutting edge is again because of overall quality.

6 points out of 12 is OK. We played well in two. Lost badly in two. I think in both away games we showed glimpses of good things but l when your coming up against these bigger budgeted teams and you gift wrap chances you will be punished.

Stockley was their spearhead tonight. That is what Argyle lack as the single forward. Someone for the team to play off. Unfortunately, we can’t afford that calibre of player at this minute.

I feel there Is nothing to be too down hearted about. Just have to be realistic that if we continue to play this way more nights like tonight will happen because the players are being asked to go things that their skill set can’t do consistently.

Hold on. Last season only four other League One teams conceded less goals than Argyle and if it wasn't for the last game 5-0 defeat we would have had the second best defensive record in the league.

19 clean sheets last season and two already this season.

That defence was Wilson, Scarr and mostly Gillesphey and sometimes Galloway.
It seems to me they've done well enough playing out from the back AND keeping out goals in the league with just three games were the defence fell part - Sheffield Wednesday, MK Dons and tonight v Charlton.

There's just no comparison between Opoku, Aimson, Watts and our current defence.

 

[MGM]

Hold on. Last season only four other League One teams conceded less goals than Argyle and if it wasn't for the last game 5-0 defeat we would have had the second best defensive record in the league.

That defence was Wilson, Scarr and mostly Gillesphey and sometimes Galloway.
It seems to me they've done well enough playing out from the back AND keeping out goals in the league with just three games were the defence fell part - Sheffield Wednesday, MK Dons and tonight v Charlton.

There's just no comparison between Opoku, Aimson, Watts and our current defence.

What about Fleetwood away where we crumbled a 2 goal lead in last 5 mins. Or there were games we got battered in like Ipswich or Wycombe away and only poor finishing saved us from a more harsh score line .

I feel there were times the goals we concede were similar.

Last year Gillesphy got caught many times from the ball in behind him. That happened the year before with Kelland Watts. Same left hand channel. Same reason. A lack of pace to cover the space in behind as they ball watch. This is the reason why Galloway is much better. Positional sense and pace.

No argument our defence‘s overall standard of defending is better though. Yet the current players still have issues playing it out from the back and knowing when to play into midfield and when not too.

There is something fundamentally flawed in the team if the same players keep making the same passing errors.

For example, how many times tonight did each of those CB players make a bad short pass. There was a reason we see the long ball to Hardie so much last season because they aren’t confident on the ball.

I repeat you are spot on. They are much better defenders. Even Gillesphy is an upgraded version of Watts. Yet we aren’t just asking them to defend. We are asking them to start the attacks from the back. And that’s where they are alike. They don’t have the consistency in their passing to do this, so when they make a bad pass they get exposed as defenders. Unfortunately, they aren’t able to cover up the mistakes.

Tonight wasn’t about bad defending as such. It was about bad passing. Bad choices. Yet, if they keep making bad passing choices it makes us bad defensively. Whether they are bad defenders or not.

 

[Koala Green]

Playing out from the back is high risk football and when it works we are all purring and talking about the best Argyle performance for 20 years - that was against Peterborough 4 days ago. And generally this tactic has worked.

Then do we have the personnel to do this? Generally yes - see the 19 clean sheets, 7th in league last season with same personnel.

Was yesterday a bad performance? Yes - not just the defenders but all over the park we looked sloppy even Cooper, Randell. Why? Maybe the exhaustion form playing 90 degree heat at the weekend? Maybe early season rustiness? Maybe new formation or Charlton? Also look at also finished top 8 last year - Mk Dons (lost first 3 games), Oxford (lost at home to Lincoln), Wycombe (lost to that lot up the road). All are below us in the league table right now.

Is it a budget and quality issue? - Well maybe, but look at Man United Maguire/ Erikkson / De Gea couldn't event make one pass to each other from the back - they were truly hopeless and they are "worth"more than 100m quid!

Schuey has added competition to the squad - Dutch Lad, Bolton and Galloway at the back are realistic options when all fit. Camara, Grant, Mayor, Miller all to come back in at some point. So we have options and competition which will help standards. As a poster here said a few days ago, judge the team after 10 -15 games.

Personally I think we will soon stop the Jekyll and Hyde yo/yo performances and find a way to eek out some draws and points on the road. We'll probably play different formations and the squad will be rotated. We have some tough games but so far no one has played us off the park, most goals are coming from errors and thats something we can fix. On the Charlton forum last night before the second goal went in, quite a few Charlton fans were mentioning we played some good stuff and looked a threat.

 

[Tugboat]

Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

I think there’s a name for that.