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Capacity?

Jul 6, 2005
2,944
56
HC Green":2zwbme68 said:
demportdave":2zwbme68 said:
Show me one Premiership or Championship Club that has the Argyle model of ownership, i.e. a locally-based owner who could be described as a genuine fan of the club he owns and bankrolls. You will really struggle to find a Hallett-Brent situation at the levels we aspire to.

Too many Argyle fans are living in the realms of fantasy where they believe we can be successful by organic means. All very noble and if only that were the case, but the reality is that Argyle are no different to any other club at our level. We are doomed to be a League 1 club at best without serious investment from a wealthy benefactor.

In recent years Exeter have made literally millions from the sale of home-grown players yet their budget remains fairly modest and they are still struggling to get out of League 2.

Even if by some miracle from Adams we got into the Championship, we would almost certainly come back down immediately because we wouldn’t be able to compete financially at that level. Adams is always moaning about his League 1 budget, does anyone seriously believe Hallett and Brent could provide him with a competitive Championship budget?

Couple of examples:
Brighton & Crystal Palace
Bristol City & Norwich
Brighton are owned by Tony Bloom, the Chairman of Starlizard, a Gambling Consultancy. He has put an estimated £250M in to the club to finance the new stadium and training ground.

Crystal Palace are jointly owned by multi-millionaire Steve Parish and 2 Americans who also own the New Jersey Devils of the NHL and the Philadelphia 76ers of the NBA. They each invested £50M.

Norwich are jointly owned by multi-millionaire Delia Smith and her husband and a guy who runs one of the biggest poultry businesses in the country, supplying all the major supermarkets. They have put millions into the club, both in good times and bad.

Bristol City are owned by Steve Lansdowne, a Bristolian who lives in Gurnsey for tax reasons because he is a Billionaire who is on the Forbes rich list. He bank-rolled the multi-million pound re-development of Ashton Gate.
 
demportdave":1pz8oduz said:
HC Green":1pz8oduz said:
demportdave":1pz8oduz said:
Show me one Premiership or Championship Club that has the Argyle model of ownership, i.e. a locally-based owner who could be described as a genuine fan of the club he owns and bankrolls. You will really struggle to find a Hallett-Brent situation at the levels we aspire to.

Too many Argyle fans are living in the realms of fantasy where they believe we can be successful by organic means. All very noble and if only that were the case, but the reality is that Argyle are no different to any other club at our level. We are doomed to be a League 1 club at best without serious investment from a wealthy benefactor.

In recent years Exeter have made literally millions from the sale of home-grown players yet their budget remains fairly modest and they are still struggling to get out of League 2.

Even if by some miracle from Adams we got into the Championship, we would almost certainly come back down immediately because we wouldn’t be able to compete financially at that level. Adams is always moaning about his League 1 budget, does anyone seriously believe Hallett and Brent could provide him with a competitive Championship budget?



Couple of examples:
Brighton & Crystal Palace
Bristol City & Norwich
Brighton are owned by Tony Bloom, the Chairman of Starlizard, a Gambling Consultancy. He has put an estimated £250M in to the club to finance the new stadium and training ground.

Crystal Palace are jointly owned by multi-millionaire Steve Parish and 2 Americans who also own the New Jersey Devils of the NHL and the Philadelphia 76ers of the NBA. They each invested £50M.

Norwich are jointly owned by multi-millionaire Delia Smith and her husband and a guy who runs one of the biggest poultry businesses in the country, supplying all the major supermarkets. They have put millions into the club, both in good times and bad.

Bristol City are owned by Steve Lansdowne, a Bristolian who lives in Gurnsey for tax reasons because he is a Billionaire who is on the Forbes rich list. He bank-rolled the multi-million pound re-development of Ashton Gate.

What is the point of your posts? You asked for examples, you were given examples. Certainly Bloom, Smith and Lansdowne are all genuine supporters. Isn't that what you were looking for? You almost appear envious of their success. So easy to take a pop, but where are the proposed solutions?
 
Jul 6, 2005
2,944
56
Bermudian Green":20cfppee said:
demportdave":20cfppee said:
HC Green":20cfppee said:
demportdave":20cfppee said:
Show me one Premiership or Championship Club that has the Argyle model of ownership, i.e. a locally-based owner who could be described as a genuine fan of the club he owns and bankrolls. You will really struggle to find a Hallett-Brent situation at the levels we aspire to.

Too many Argyle fans are living in the realms of fantasy where they believe we can be successful by organic means. All very noble and if only that were the case, but the reality is that Argyle are no different to any other club at our level. We are doomed to be a League 1 club at best without serious investment from a wealthy benefactor.

In recent years Exeter have made literally millions from the sale of home-grown players yet their budget remains fairly modest and they are still struggling to get out of League 2.

Even if by some miracle from Adams we got into the Championship, we would almost certainly come back down immediately because we wouldn’t be able to compete financially at that level. Adams is always moaning about his League 1 budget, does anyone seriously believe Hallett and Brent could provide him with a competitive Championship budget?



Couple of examples:
Brighton & Crystal Palace
Bristol City & Norwich
Brighton are owned by Tony Bloom, the Chairman of Starlizard, a Gambling Consultancy. He has put an estimated £250M in to the club to finance the new stadium and training ground.

Crystal Palace are jointly owned by multi-millionaire Steve Parish and 2 Americans who also own the New Jersey Devils of the NHL and the Philadelphia 76ers of the NBA. They each invested £50M.

Norwich are jointly owned by multi-millionaire Delia Smith and her husband and a guy who runs one of the biggest poultry businesses in the country, supplying all the major supermarkets. They have put millions into the club, both in good times and bad.

Bristol City are owned by Steve Lansdowne, a Bristolian who lives in Gurnsey for tax reasons because he is a Billionaire who is on the Forbes rich list. He bank-rolled the multi-million pound re-development of Ashton Gate.

What is the point of your posts? You asked for examples, you were given examples. Certainly Bloom, Smith and Lansdowne are all genuine supporters. Isn't that what you were looking for? You almost appear envious of their success. So easy to take a pop, but where are the proposed solutions?
I have often thought that perhaps you are not too bright and here you go again.

I am not taking a pop at anyone, least of all Brent and Hallett who I was positive about because they’re good guys for the reasons I stated.

However, I certainly am envious of clubs that have millions given to them by wealthy benefactors who easily get around the rules designed to stop clubs living above their means, such as a small club like Fleetwood who can outbid us for players despite having gates of barely half of what we get.

You can pump all the money you like into small clubs like Fleetwood and Scunthorpe and they will still be small clubs because they have such limited potential. Put similar money into Argyle and we could be a good Championship club pushing for the Play-offs.

To put it in simple terms for your benefit, I think we need a wealthy benefactor if Argyle are going to make any serious progress. It certainly won’t come from the re-vamped Grandstand facilities. Others don’t agree and don’t want an injection of cash, they think we can progress organically. I can’t think of one team at any level who have had sustained success purely through organic growth.
 

Biggs

Administrator
Staff member
Lowey Sponsor
NHS Volunteer Supporter
Pasoti Donor
NHS Cake Donor
Feb 14, 2010
7,795
189
Plymouth/London
I would agree with a lot of the points you’re making, Demport. With the huge caveat that the grandstand redevelopment in itself makes the club way, way, WAY more attractive to the investors you’re talking about.

You’d get very few potential owners interested in Argyle as it was, with the big hassle and cost of doing the grandstand. From 2020 you’re looking at a big club in a big city with a big fanbase, that owns its own smart, money-making stadium.

I’d be stunned if there wasn’t serious interest in Argyle in the next couple of years, and the Mayflower 2020 may be good timing as Americans get more and more interested in English football.
 
Jul 6, 2005
2,944
56
The revamped Grandstand will obviously be a big plus, but I don't think it"s going to be the cash cow that others seem to think. I don't see it transforming Argyle's finances to make us that much more competitive with regards to signing players.

But in any event, it will probably take a couple of years at least to see any real financial benefit.

Personally, I will always be disappointed that the opportunity wasn't taken to add the missing 30 feet at the Barn Park End which would have really improved the aesthetics and added to the capacity. It would also have allowed us to get rid of the dreadful lights on that side of the ground and replace them with lights along the Grandstand.
 

Biggs

Administrator
Staff member
Lowey Sponsor
NHS Volunteer Supporter
Pasoti Donor
NHS Cake Donor
Feb 14, 2010
7,795
189
Plymouth/London
The point I was making though, is that any potential investor pre-2019 would have been put off by the hassle and cost of a grandstand redevelopment. Now they’re getting a ‘complete’ football club and stadium, so it instantly becomes more attractive.

And I don’t know why it would take a couple of years for grandstand income to come through. Surely all the premium seats and hospitality packages will be paid for in the summer (exactly like season tickets), which instantly increases the budget. And events, weddings, conferences etc will hopefully see big demand in the first few months of opening, and will also be pre-paid.
 
demportdave":jphnfu8n said:
Bermudian Green":jphnfu8n said:
demportdave":jphnfu8n said:
HC Green":jphnfu8n said:
demportdave":jphnfu8n said:
Show me one Premiership or Championship Club that has the Argyle model of ownership, i.e. a locally-based owner who could be described as a genuine fan of the club he owns and bankrolls. You will really struggle to find a Hallett-Brent situation at the levels we aspire to.

Too many Argyle fans are living in the realms of fantasy where they believe we can be successful by organic means. All very noble and if only that were the case, but the reality is that Argyle are no different to any other club at our level. We are doomed to be a League 1 club at best without serious investment from a wealthy benefactor.

In recent years Exeter have made literally millions from the sale of home-grown players yet their budget remains fairly modest and they are still struggling to get out of League 2.

Even if by some miracle from Adams we got into the Championship, we would almost certainly come back down immediately because we wouldn’t be able to compete financially at that level. Adams is always moaning about his League 1 budget, does anyone seriously believe Hallett and Brent could provide him with a competitive Championship budget?



Couple of examples:
Brighton & Crystal Palace
Bristol City & Norwich
Brighton are owned by Tony Bloom, the Chairman of Starlizard, a Gambling Consultancy. He has put an estimated £250M in to the club to finance the new stadium and training ground.

Crystal Palace are jointly owned by multi-millionaire Steve Parish and 2 Americans who also own the New Jersey Devils of the NHL and the Philadelphia 76ers of the NBA. They each invested £50M.

Norwich are jointly owned by multi-millionaire Delia Smith and her husband and a guy who runs one of the biggest poultry businesses in the country, supplying all the major supermarkets. They have put millions into the club, both in good times and bad.

Bristol City are owned by Steve Lansdowne, a Bristolian who lives in Gurnsey for tax reasons because he is a Billionaire who is on the Forbes rich list. He bank-rolled the multi-million pound re-development of Ashton Gate.

What is the point of your posts? You asked for examples, you were given examples. Certainly Bloom, Smith and Lansdowne are all genuine supporters. Isn't that what you were looking for? You almost appear envious of their success. So easy to take a pop, but where are the proposed solutions?
I have often thought that perhaps you are not too bright and here you go again.

I am not taking a pop at anyone, least of all Brent and Hallett who I was positive about because they’re good guys for the reasons I stated.

However, I certainly am envious of clubs that have millions given to them by wealthy benefactors who easily get around the rules designed to stop clubs living above their means, such as a small club like Fleetwood who can outbid us for players despite having gates of barely half of what we get.

You can pump all the money you like into small clubs like Fleetwood and Scunthorpe and they will still be small clubs because they have such limited potential. Put similar money into Argyle and we could be a good Championship club pushing for the Play-offs.

To put it in simple terms for your benefit, I think we need a wealthy benefactor if Argyle are going to make any serious progress. It certainly won’t come from the re-vamped Grandstand facilities. Others don’t agree and don’t want an injection of cash, they think we can progress organically. I can’t think of one team at any level who have had sustained success purely through organic growth.

My bad, I misread your question. Apologies.
 

BHS

Oct 6, 2008
240
0
Liverpool (Skelmersdale)
I notice Spurs new ground capacity is 62,062 to commemorate or more a “kind” to the double winning team of 1962. I think other clubs have done something similar, I would like to have seen Argyle do something similar squeeze a few more seats in to get to a capacity of 18,086
 
Jul 6, 2005
2,944
56
BHS":1g3jk6md said:
I notice Spurs new ground capacity is 62,062 to commemorate or more a “kind” to the double winning team of 1962. I think other clubs have done something similar, I would like to have seen Argyle do something similar squeeze a few more seats in to get to a capacity of 18,086
Good idea, I like the sound of that.

Adding the missing section at the BP end would have increased the capacity, but probably nearer to 18860.
 
Jul 25, 2011
2,086
0
demportdave":1jorpoc0 said:
davie nine":1jorpoc0 said:
All the information that I have seen, from owners, directors and staff, since the initial plans were presented for supporters to view, was that phase 2 was included to indicate aspirations for the future with no timescale at all for this phase.
I would assume that there would be no chance unless/until we become established in The Championship.
In other words, you also think it will be sometime never.

When we were a very good Championship club about 11 years ago we were still only getting 13-14000 gates, with a team who were genuine Play-off contenders all season.

If it wasn’t for the Cornish, the gates would have been nearer 10000 such is the apathy of Plymothians. When they refer to a football team as ‘us’ they are usually referring to Man United, Liverpool, Chelsea, etc.

So why will we ever need any more that a 17000 capacity?

I would love to see the Grandstand actually finished and not just the half-assed refurb we are getting, with the 2 corners also filled in and the mezzanine level incorporated into the ‘horseshoe’ because that would mean we would be an established Premiership club.

But sadly, it is unlikely to ever happen unless a very rich person decides to buy Argyle as a vanity project.
Why bother? I wonder why it’s only down here we seem to suffer from this small minded apathy?
Imagine in Cardiff ,hull, Brighton ,Bristol city city etc had the same small minded defeatist attitude? All clubs that have had smaller gates than argyle in the same division sometimes even when they were in a higher division , all in super smart stadiums you’d expect to see in a British city in the 21 st century and all near or larger than 30,000. All about expectations and ambition. If you’ve got none you settle for second best and make do. How I envy the ambitious. Cue hysterical, unhinged guff about ‘why don’t you pay for it then’ etc.
I wonder if they apply the same logic every time anyone complains and the trains or hospitals?
 
Sep 3, 2008
315
47
Plymouth
BHS":23010q7j said:
I notice Spurs new ground capacity is 62,062 to commemorate or more a “kind” to the double winning team of 1962. I think other clubs have done something similar, I would like to have seen Argyle do something similar squeeze a few more seats in to get to a capacity of 18,086


Somebody has made that up and spun you line. For starters, Tottenham won the double in 1960-61 so I guess they will have to take a few seats out :funny: