• Welcome to PASOTI (Sponsored by GA Solictors and Lang & Potter)
  • Hello guests - don't forget that by registering and signing up for Pasoti you'll see less adverts plus receive extras like free match tickets, taking part in polls, joining in the chat room and more. Come and join us!

Capacity?

Biggs

Administrator
Staff member
Lowey Sponsor
NHS Volunteer Supporter
Pasoti Donor
NHS Cake Donor
Feb 14, 2010
7,795
189
Plymouth/London
What I would say is that there are barely any non-architectural drawing CGI images, and the only ones available are Stage 2 incl corners. That is possibly misleading, I agree.

The thing I have an issue with is the contention that it will never happen. The dressing rooms and stand itself have been built specifically with the corners in mind, for example.

And granted, the grandstand itself has taken ages, but filling in the corners is nowhere near the same task and represents the icing on the cake to the really difficult project of the grandstand.
 
Jul 6, 2005
2,944
56
davie nine":3c35cfhm said:
All the information that I have seen, from owners, directors and staff, since the initial plans were presented for supporters to view, was that phase 2 was included to indicate aspirations for the future with no timescale at all for this phase.
I would assume that there would be no chance unless/until we become established in The Championship.
In other words, you also think it will be sometime never.

When we were a very good Championship club about 11 years ago we were still only getting 13-14000 gates, with a team who were genuine Play-off contenders all season.

If it wasn’t for the Cornish, the gates would have been nearer 10000 such is the apathy of Plymothians. When they refer to a football team as ‘us’ they are usually referring to Man United, Liverpool, Chelsea, etc.

So why will we ever need any more that a 17000 capacity?

I would love to see the Grandstand actually finished and not just the half-assed refurb we are getting, with the 2 corners also filled in and the mezzanine level incorporated into the ‘horseshoe’ because that would mean we would be an established Premiership club.

But sadly, it is unlikely to ever happen unless a very rich person decides to buy Argyle as a vanity project.
 

Willis88

50/50 Sponsor
Jan 17, 2017
3,431
62
32
Bovey Tracey
I don't think anyone is truly under the belief that phase 2 will arrive without a major turn in Argyle's fortune, and to be fair to the club and the board no-one has said anything to the contrary to that.

Your last line summed it up perfectly there Dave.

As with everything football these days, success (and by that I mean premiership/top half championship) comes purely by cash injections by owners.

Maybe our fortunes will change and one lucky Janner will win the euro millions and throw a load of it at Argyle, otherwise we need to keep our expectations and demands in line with reality.

As to the other point you made about attendances, given it's not likely we'll reach the "promised land" any time soon would you rather a "half-assed" refurb or a half-empty white elephant of a stadium? (when you consider that the empty space will still need maintenance and security all taking money out of the playing budget)
 

davie nine

Lowey Sponsor
50/50 Sponsor
Pasoti Donor
Jan 23, 2015
7,633
245
74
Plympton
demportdave":3aqw426a said:
davie nine":3aqw426a said:
All the information that I have seen, from owners, directors and staff, since the initial plans were presented for supporters to view, was that phase 2 was included to indicate aspirations for the future with no timescale at all for this phase.
I would assume that there would be no chance unless/until we become established in The Championship.
In other words, you also think it will be sometime never.

When we were a very good Championship club about 11 years ago we were still only getting 13-14000 gates, with a team who were genuine Play-off contenders all season.

If it wasn’t for the Cornish, the gates would have been nearer 10000 such is the apathy of Plymothians. When they refer to a football team as ‘us’ they are usually referring to Man United, Liverpool, Chelsea, etc.

So why will we ever need any more that a 17000 capacity?

I would love to see the Grandstand actually finished and not just the half-assed refurb we are getting, with the 2 corners also filled in and the mezzanine level incorporated into the ‘horseshoe’ because that would mean we would be an established Premiership club.

But sadly, it is unlikely to ever happen unless a very rich person decides to buy Argyle as a vanity project.
Yes, you may be right that it could be, as you say, ‘sometime never’. That’s why I said ‘unless/until’ we establish ourselves in The Champioship.
I am quite happy for Simon Hallett to carry on as our owner for as long as he chooses and, hopefully, we will progress under his even handed guidance. I certainly don’t want some very rich person to buy our club as a ‘vanity project’.

I would prefer that we carry on and take our chances with the genuine owners and management that we have currently.

I don’t think that it is beyond the realms of possibility that they will take us into The Championship and consolidate our position but what I am certain of is that they will not take us back to the depths of despair that we we found ourselves in 8 or 9 years ago.
 
T

The Grumpy Loyal

Guest
I'd be gutted if a Russian billionaire like the fella that has now bankrolled Bournemouth to being an established Prem club were to take Argyle on as a vanity project.

Truly gutted.
 

Argylegames

Administrator
Staff member
Kate Sponsor
Lowey Sponsor
NHS Volunteer Supporter
Pasoti Donor
Jun 12, 2006
5,188
115
67
Hampshire, UK
www.argylegames.org.uk
The Grumpy Loyal":2kuijtsb said:
I'd be gutted if a Russian billionaire like the fella that has now bankrolled Bournemouth to being an established Prem club were to take Argyle on as a vanity project.

Truly gutted.

But how would you know he was like the Bournemouth one and not like the Pompey one who caused them to join us in the fourth tier?

I'd be exceedingly worried if we had someone come in like that. The lesson of Gretna would be a constant nag in my mind.
 
May 8, 2011
4,655
42
The Grumpy Loyal":113blmcj said:
I'd be gutted if a Russian billionaire like the fella that has now bankrolled Bournemouth to being an established Prem club were to take Argyle on as a vanity project.

Truly gutted.

I just wonder what would happen when all 92 Clubs are owned by wealthy billionaires looking for vanity projects, perhaps most fans still moaning about their owner not putting enough money in but lots of multi millionaire league 1 and 2 players.
 
Jul 6, 2005
2,944
56
The Grumpy Loyal":2gwxkb38 said:
I'd be gutted if a Russian billionaire like the fella that has now bankrolled Bournemouth to being an established Prem club were to take Argyle on as a vanity project.

Truly gutted.
Yes, I’d be gutted as well to see Argyle established in the Premiership, much better to be a League 1 / League 2 yo-yo club in a stadium that is incomplete and with a Manager constantly moaning about his playing budget. Manchester City fans must bitterly rue the day when the Qatar Royal Family decided to invest in their club. They would surely prefer to go back to the time when Jock Morrison was leading them out of the 3rd tier.

As for Davie’s comments about preferring to stay with current ownership and taking our chances, in reality those chances are extremely limited under the current regime. I have the utmost regard for James Brent and what he did for my club in its darkest hour. Similarly, Simon Hallett is a genuine Argyle fan who has put his money where his mouth is and I am grateful for that.

But ironically, Simon Hallett joining the Argyle Board and financing the re-development work actually makes my point for me. Without him, the Mayflower would still be closed indefinitely with no prospect of re-opening. For Argyle to progress back up the Football League will require a further serious injection of funds from people currently not associated with the club.

It will cost millions for Argyle to become established back in the Championship. That’s not just my view, it’s what Adams told us at the fans forum last year. The Championship is not the same Division we left almost 10 years ago, it is effectively Premiership 2 and Adams is right, we would need a lot of money to re-establish ourselves at that level.

That sort of money is not going to come from the present ownership and it certainly isn’t going to come from the new facilities, which will probably only help to provide a competitive League 1 budget at best, assuming we manage to stay up. I don’t think the new facilities will be the cash cow that some people think but in any event, it will take a couple of years at least before money from the new facilities will have any effect on the playing budget.
 
T

The Grumpy Loyal

Guest
HC Green":yalu7516 said:
The Grumpy Loyal":yalu7516 said:
I'd be gutted if a Russian billionaire like the fella that has now bankrolled Bournemouth to being an established Prem club were to take Argyle on as a vanity project.

Truly gutted.

I just wonder what would happen when all 92 Clubs are owned by wealthy billionaires looking for vanity projects, perhaps most fans still moaning about their owner not putting enough money in but lots of multi millionaire league 1 and 2 players.

What a fantastically level playing field that'd be then.
 
Jul 6, 2005
2,944
56
Show me one Premiership or Championship Club that has the Argyle model of ownership, i.e. a locally-based owner who could be described as a genuine fan of the club he owns and bankrolls. You will really struggle to find a Hallett-Brent situation at the levels we aspire to.

Too many Argyle fans are living in the realms of fantasy where they believe we can be successful by organic means. All very noble and if only that were the case, but the reality is that Argyle are no different to any other club at our level. We are doomed to be a League 1 club at best without serious investment from a wealthy benefactor.

In recent years Exeter have made literally millions from the sale of home-grown players yet their budget remains fairly modest and they are still struggling to get out of League 2.

Even if by some miracle from Adams we got into the Championship, we would almost certainly come back down immediately because we wouldn’t be able to compete financially at that level. Adams is always moaning about his League 1 budget, does anyone seriously believe Hallett and Brent could provide him with a competitive Championship budget?
 
May 8, 2011
4,655
42
demportdave":3cx65a4v said:
Show me one Premiership or Championship Club that has the Argyle model of ownership, i.e. a locally-based owner who could be described as a genuine fan of the club he owns and bankrolls. You will really struggle to find a Hallett-Brent situation at the levels we aspire to.

Too many Argyle fans are living in the realms of fantasy where they believe we can be successful by organic means. All very noble and if only that were the case, but the reality is that Argyle are no different to any other club at our level. We are doomed to be a League 1 club at best without serious investment from a wealthy benefactor.

In recent years Exeter have made literally millions from the sale of home-grown players yet their budget remains fairly modest and they are still struggling to get out of League 2.

Even if by some miracle from Adams we got into the Championship, we would almost certainly come back down immediately because we wouldn’t be able to compete financially at that level. Adams is always moaning about his League 1 budget, does anyone seriously believe Hallett and Brent could provide him with a competitive Championship budget?

Couple of examples:
Brighton & Crystal Palace
Bristol City & Norwich
 

davie nine

Lowey Sponsor
50/50 Sponsor
Pasoti Donor
Jan 23, 2015
7,633
245
74
Plympton
demportdave":3v76jqw0 said:
The Grumpy Loyal":3v76jqw0 said:
I'd be gutted if a Russian billionaire like the fella that has now bankrolled Bournemouth to being an established Prem club were to take Argyle on as a vanity project.

Truly gutted.
Yes, I’d be gutted as well to see Argyle established in the Premiership, much better to be a League 1 / League 2 yo-yo club in a stadium that is incomplete and with a Manager constantly moaning about his playing budget. Manchester City fans must bitterly rue the day when the Qatar Royal Family decided to invest in their club. They would surely prefer to go back to the time when Jock Morrison was leading them out of the 3rd tier.

As for Davie’s comments about preferring to stay with current ownership and taking our chances, in reality those chances are extremely limited under the current regime. I have the utmost regard for James Brent and what he did for my club in its darkest hour. Similarly, Simon Hallett is a genuine Argyle fan who has put his money where his mouth is and I am grateful for that.

But ironically, Simon Hallett joining the Argyle Board and financing the re-development work actually makes my point for me. Without him, the Mayflower would still be closed indefinitely with no prospect of re-opening. For Argyle to progress back up the Football League will require a further serious injection of funds from people currently not associated with the club.

It will cost millions for Argyle to become established back in the Championship. That’s not just my view, it’s what Adams told us at the fans forum last year. The Championship is not the same Division we left almost 10 years ago, it is effectively Premiership 2 and Adams is right, we would need a lot of money to re-establish ourselves at that level.

That sort of money is not going to come from the present ownership and it certainly isn’t going to come from the new facilities, which will probably only help to provide a competitive League 1 budget at best, assuming we manage to stay up. I don’t think the new facilities will be the cash cow that some people think but in any event, it will take a couple of years at least before money from the new facilities will have any effect on the playing budget.
Always good to read your opinions, Dave. You certainly didn't 'disappear back into the ether' after your return in November/December, did you? ;) ;)
 
May 16, 2016
3,727
121
demportdave":ra1l24xq said:
Show me one Premiership or Championship Club that has the Argyle model of ownership, i.e. a locally-based owner who could be described as a genuine fan of the club he owns and bankrolls. You will really struggle to find a Hallett-Brent situation at the levels we aspire to.

Too many Argyle fans are living in the realms of fantasy where they believe we can be successful by organic means. All very noble and if only that were the case, but the reality is that Argyle are no different to any other club at our level. We are doomed to be a League 1 club at best without serious investment from a wealthy benefactor.

In recent years Exeter have made literally millions from the sale of home-grown players yet their budget remains fairly modest and they are still struggling to get out of League 2.

Even if by some miracle from Adams we got into the Championship, we would almost certainly come back down immediately because we wouldn’t be able to compete financially at that level. Adams is always moaning about his League 1 budget, does anyone seriously believe Hallett and Brent could provide him with a competitive Championship budget?

......and ?

I've Googled Billionaires looking for Medium size lower League Club in the back of beyond, ready to throw money chasing someone else's dream, but nothing comes up.

Even Alexa told me to Eff Off and get real. :(
 
Mar 8, 2016
1,788
0
The way I see things going over the next few seasons is With each season of struggling in league one that goes by the more disillusioned fans will become, it will become tiring losing our better players to Luton or fleetwood because we can’t compete with wages. Season tickets will drop and then it will become more difficult, it’s a sh1tty circle. The board do what they can and at least they have the best interests of the club at heart (many other clubs owners don’t) but we won’t achieve anything without better financial backing. Some delusional fans that think this refurb will change anything will also be disappointed. Managing expectations is the key I’m afraid.