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BLM, Taking a knee and THAT symbol of racism

Sep 2, 2008
1,792
22
I'm white Caucasian and was working within a Govt Organisation in London during the BLM protests. Within the team I was part of, I was in the minority as far as race/background was concerned. My BAME work colleagues were actually quite embarrassed to see these BLM protestors marching through the streets passing their workplace to de-face statues etc.

Its the same with pretty much everything. People will believe whomever it is that shouts louder or has the greater exposure. They automatically assume that because the other 'side' are not as vocal or demonstrative then the noisy ones must be right.
 
Sep 8, 2011
1,241
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Glenholt
I also worked in London in an organisation which was deemed to be institutionally racist. They were not wrong. BAME colleagues were overlooked, were discriminated against, were hung out to dry. This still happens. Yes, not as much as it was back then but still not near enough perfect to be complacent. Now as for BAME colleagues being embarrassed about the protests, I do not doubt that. But I am also pretty sure that if you sat down and had a good meaningful conversation with them, they would tell you about everyday, casual racism that they have experienced. Things which no doubt the perpetrators would try to say were not serious but if one is on the receiving end of this time after time, it all adds up. A very good friend I have made since I came to live in Plymouth only just opened up to me last month about the racism that their family suffered over many, many years in Plymouth including being forced out of their home. It has taken them three years to trust me to say this.
 
Sep 6, 2006
11,360
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If you think of this thread for example, as a game of keepy uppy and that some posters are long term subtle wind up merchants that enjoy their perceived forum fame, you'll see the place differently. Some genuinely believe they are right but only because they see the world from within their limited outlook and inability to accept another contrasting view.

15 minutes and all that.
Whereas of course you are the opposite. So open minded accept others views and don't genuinely believe you are right. In fact a complete well rounded human being.
 
Sep 6, 2006
11,360
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It's still 34 out of 66mn+ after the biggest disappointment in football that this country has had in many a year.

Quote from BBC - '

The UK Football Policing Unit received 600 reports of racist comments sent to England's black players after the defeat and judged 207 to be criminal.
Of these, 123 were posted by people overseas, while 34 came from the UK.'

So 34 out of 66mn+.

Unless you can find something else that shows greater numbers?

I mean, yes racism is a problem. But not anything like how it's being made out. You would think it was a pandemic of 1 in every 2 if you believed some on here.
Ah there you are then that proves it. Only 34 racists in the UK after all. Lets all celebrate a truly equal society.
 
Nov 15, 2011
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Cricketer Michael Holding's recent book "How We Kneel How We Rise" was shocking detailing the racism he has been subject to. He notes how things are better than the 70s and 80s though in the last few years where there has been a normalisation of blaming foreigners for all our ills things have gone backwards.

Accounts from Thierry Henry, Michael Johnson and Usain Bolt detailing their treatment before they were famous and even now when they aren't recognised as superstars are depressing. They talk about the extra hurdle they always have to face.

I think it's a case of having to respect what people's lived experiences are , it's easy to dismiss if you haven't spent a day in their shoes.
 
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Mar 7, 2010
5,725
183
Manchester
People keep trotting out the line 'oh it's better than it was before'.
But the facts (actual facts, not throwaway anecdotal 'its better than it was before' lines) show a trend, and it's the trend that is the concern.

Today the PFA stated that there had been a 40 odd percent increase in online racist abuse directed at players whilst a recent sky article states:
Racially and religiously motivated hate crimes hit a new high across England and Wales in 2020, data has revealed.

So in the face of the trend of emboldened predjudices, the 'its better than it was before' line starts looking pretty flimsy.

The very fact that the British public were happy to vote for a bloke who uses terms like picaninny and watermelon smile to describe black people, fresh off his predecessor sending British citizens to Caribbean islands they'd hadn't set foot on for 50 or 60 years speaks volumes about latent attitudes on these shores.
 
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Aug 15, 2015
772
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I also worked in London in an organisation which was deemed to be institutionally racist. They were not wrong. BAME colleagues were overlooked, were discriminated against, were hung out to dry. This still happens. Yes, not as much as it was back then but still not near enough perfect to be complacent. Now as for BAME colleagues being embarrassed about the protests, I do not doubt that. But I am also pretty sure that if you sat down and had a good meaningful conversation with them, they would tell you about everyday, casual racism that they have experienced. Things which no doubt the perpetrators would try to say were not serious but if one is on the receiving end of this time after time, it all adds up. A very good friend I have made since I came to live in Plymouth only just opened up to me last month about the racism that their family suffered over many, many years in Plymouth including being forced out of their home. It has taken them three years to trust me to say this.

When you say 'overlooked', what do you mean by that? Lots of people get overlooked in the workplace, especially in London. How can you know that it's a direct result of their race? You literally have no evidence of that. It's about as convincing as saying if my auntie had bollocks she'd be my uncle. Again, 'hung out to dry', what exactly do you mean behind these empty words? Can you prove that there's systematic racism behind what you are saying or is it just hear say and pub talk? Lots of people get hung out to dry in London. I know, because I was one of them. In fact, I was replaced by a bunch of ethnic minorities. Not everything is down to race.
 
Nov 15, 2011
1,733
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When you say 'overlooked', what do you mean by that? Lots of people get overlooked in the workplace, especially in London. How can you know that it's a direct result of their race? You literally have no evidence of that. It's about as convincing as saying if my auntie had bollocks she'd be my uncle. Again, 'hung out to dry', what exactly do you mean behind these empty words? Can you prove that there's systematic racism behind what you are saying or is it just hear say and pub talk? Lots of people get hung out to dry in London. I know, because I was one of them. In fact, I was replaced by a bunch of ethnic minorities. Not everything is down to race.
Wow
 
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Aug 15, 2015
772
67
Not nice? Exactly? Ok then.

Is it wrong though? They just seem like baseless comments to me. Go to any organisation with 100+ staff in Zone 1/2 in London. You'll do well to find an organisation that is lacking in diversity in the way of gender & race in today's world.

So when you suggest that BAME colleagues are overlooked, I really don't understand. Go into the corporate offices of financial services, go into the start-ups and see who the managers are. It's a complete mixed bag. There are tons of Head's of desks, managing directors, people in management & senior leadership, who would be classed as BAME.

'Every day casual racism'. Do you really think a BAME person working at a corporate like Google or JPMorgan is experiencing 'every day casual racism' at the workplace? Or someone working at an investor funded start-up such as say for example, Revolut or Starling? Do you honestly think that this would be tolerated and that the racist person would be dumb enough to think they'd get away with it? Do you think these organisations would risk reputational damage? That they would risk investors pulling their money out? All of these organisations are pro diversity, they are doing everything they can to be as diverse as possible. If there was any racism, they would get rid of the person without hesitancy. That's the modern day approach in a city like London.

Are you talking in the workplace or racism via individuals? Please correct me if wrong, but you seem to be suggesting that institutional racism is present in the workforce. Where? In big corporate firms? At start-ups? The London Mayor is of Pakistani descent. There are absolutely tons of representatives in Labour who are BAME. There are BAME people in the police. I was reading a story that's been circulating about a black female who is a Superintendent in the force. The Home Secretary, Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, are all BAME. The editor of British Vogue is a black man. I could go on. Where are BAME people being 'overlooked'?
 
Nov 15, 2011
1,733
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Shoenice doesn’t appear to have read the Equality and Human Rights Commission report on the previous page. That’s not hearsay or pub talk it’s the stark truth.
 
Sep 6, 2006
11,360
293
Not nice? Exactly? Ok then.

Is it wrong though? They just seem like baseless comments to me. Go to any organisation with 100+ staff in Zone 1/2 in London. You'll do well to find an organisation that is lacking in diversity in the way of gender & race in today's world.

So when you suggest that BAME colleagues are overlooked, I really don't understand. Go into the corporate offices of financial services, go into the start-ups and see who the managers are. It's a complete mixed bag. There are tons of Head's of desks, managing directors, people in management & senior leadership, who would be classed as BAME.

'Every day casual racism'. Do you really think a BAME person working at a corporate like Google or JPMorgan is experiencing 'every day casual racism' at the workplace? Or someone working at an investor funded start-up such as say for example, Revolut or Starling? Do you honestly think that this would be tolerated and that the racist person would be dumb enough to think they'd get away with it? Do you think these organisations would risk reputational damage? That they would risk investors pulling their money out? All of these organisations are pro diversity, they are doing everything they can to be as diverse as possible. If there was any racism, they would get rid of the person without hesitancy. That's the modern day approach in a city like London.

Are you talking in the workplace or racism via individuals? Please correct me if wrong, but you seem to be suggesting that institutional racism is present in the workforce. Where? In big corporate firms? At start-ups? The London Mayor is of Pakistani descent. There are absolutely tons of representatives in Labour who are BAME. There are BAME people in the police. I was reading a story that's been circulating about a black female who is a Superintendent in the force. The Home Secretary, Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, are all BAME. The editor of British Vogue is a black man. I could go on. Where are BAME people being 'overlooked'?
Such a simplistic shallow reply. Quote a few examples and that proves there is no racism. And obviously no understanding of indirect racism, the power of subconscious racism and the structural disadvantages faced by ethnic minorities in housing, education etc.
 
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