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BLM, Taking a knee and THAT symbol of racism

Nov 15, 2011
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I think the overwhelming number of supporters will believe Southgate, the Premier League, EFL and our footballers, when they say they're not a bunch of Marxists.

I don't think you can put everyone in one basket. There will be those who realise their booing was misplaced as there's no marxist agenda, those who just did it to get attention and now realise its not appropriate, and a small minority who still have the hate but are shamed into silence.
 
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Daz

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So are you saying that the players should stop because some racists disagree?
Why are you trying to put words in my mouth? At no point have I said they shouldn’t do it. Behave ffs.
 
May 16, 2016
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Considering the fact that since taking the knee, reports of online racism have increased and now Premier League have announced (and explained its disassociation with the 'other' BLM) that they intend to continue next season, is it fair to wonder if as campaigns go, taking the knee has a been a bit of a failure so far?

Here we are a year (?) later, still discussing the gesture and its perceived rights or wrongs rather than how or what progress has been made in actually fighting racism.

I don't believe there will be too much, if any, of a negative response in the stadia. The majority of football supporters are not racist so the knee is not going to considered as aimed at them by those attending a game. The naturally racist out there, will or do not attend games anyway, but will still be somewhere on their keyboards.
 
Nov 15, 2011
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Well I think its been a massive success. Not only did the booing reduce to practically nothing by the end of the Euros, but as we can see eg from these 37 pages and media coverage, its kept the anti racism message in the news. That's the whole point of the gesture. And those abusing players eg online have been called out and isolated.

Yes there's been the distractors trying to pretend its something to do with Marxism for reasons still not apparent but that seems to be behind us now.

The value of its ongoing message I see by imagining parents taking their kids to Argyle for the first time. The kids ask about the players taking the knee and parents explain the no to racism message. If the players become heroes to the kids then that's a message they're likely to take home.
 

Daz

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Sep 30, 2003
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Well I think its been a massive success. Not only did the booing reduce to practically nothing by the end of the Euros, but as we can see eg from these 37 pages and media coverage, its kept the anti racism message in the news. That's the whole point of the gesture. And those abusing players eg online have been called out and isolated.

Yes there's been the distractors trying to pretend its something to do with Marxism for reasons still not apparent but that seems to be behind us now.

The value of its ongoing message I see by imagining parents taking their kids to Argyle for the first time. The kids ask about the players taking the knee and parents explain the no to racism message. If the players become heroes to the kids then that's a message they're likely to take home.
You need to get what happened at the euros out of your head mate. The 65,000 in Wembley were a very different crowd to the other 90,000 outside (some of the songs on Wembley way were not great). Like I said before it was like a party for the hour before the game (I’d go as far as saying I had one of the best hours of my life enjoying the atmosphere and the spirit of hope that everyone in the ground had). Outside for 6 hours was an absolute cess pit of drugs and alcohol that I had to take my family away from.

The reaction to Sancho, Rashford and Sako after the game showed that it will take a lot more than taking a knee to help educate some people.

With regards to your middle paragraph. Just so you know…. the reason people linked taking the knee to the Marxist BLM is because they literally had BLM plastered on their shirts, in the stands and on Skysports/bt sports when teams were being announced at the same time as riots in the UK and US. It’s not that hard to see why some people didn’t separate the two different Black Lives Matter groups.
 
Nov 15, 2011
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No Daz I don't need to get the Euros out of my head. a) I know what England fans are like I've followed them all over Europe including the Russia game in Marseille, they attract the worst type in terms of racists, after the Russia game I vowed never to attend an England game again, and b) if the booing from these people was reduced from loud and embarrassing at the start of the tournament to barely nothing at the end, that's a result whatever you say.

The reaction to Sancho etc was predictable but as noted on here was mostly from anonymous overseas accounts. People in this country were identified and shamed including a Sports teacher. The education from keeping the anti racism message in the headlines every week via the knee will be invaluable.

For the 100th time the players told you the Black Lives Matter message here had nothing to do with the politics of a small section of the BLM in America. If you are persuaded by some nefarious characters to do so, or pretend they are connected, that's your choice and you are intentionally disrespecting those giving the anti racism message who have told you they don't support this.
 

Daz

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Sep 30, 2003
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820B85C8-119B-4192-954B-0285D6B64746.jpegYou can not say that taking the knee had nothing to do with BLM in the US. It did to start with despite what you say.

People like yourself and metroace are doing far more damage to race relations with your ‘my view is the only correct view’ when you have both tried in this thread to put words in to my mouth which are completely the opposite to what I actually think.

For clarity - I was at Wembley and clapped when the players of both teams took the knee. I did this because I am proud of them and how they genuinely seem like they take their social responsibility seriously. I do though have the opinion that far more needs to happen than taking the knee to sort out an issue with a very small % of people and I’m not convinced it’s worked as others have said.
 
Nov 15, 2011
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I didn't say it had nothing to do with BLM in the US, I said it had nothing to do with the narrow politics of a small wing of the movement there. It did flow from the message post Floyd that Black Lives Matter and rightly so.

In my opinion you are wrong about us doing harm to race relations. The only people who do that are racists and taking the knee is successfully addressing this.

Your words are your own and I agree more needs to be done, but the message has evidentially been a good start which is why it will continue.
 

Daz

Administrator
Staff member
Pasoti Donor
Sep 30, 2003
2,545
182
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I didn't say it had nothing to do with BLM in the US, I said it had nothing to do with the narrow politics of a small wing of the movement there. It did flow from the message post Floyd that Black Lives Matter and rightly so.

In my opinion you are wrong about us doing harm to race relations. The only people who do that are racists and taking the knee is successfully addressing this.

Your words are your own and I agree more needs to be done, but the message has evidentially been a good start which is why it will continue.
As we said previously we will soon see whether it’s working. I do remember everyone lauding Marcus Rashford for his lobbying for children to get them fed in the holidays. How can anyone not? Then he played a few bad games and missed a penalty and all of a sudden he was being told to concentrate on football. I just see this going the same way. Hope I’m wrong, but won’t be surprised if I’m not.
 
Sep 25, 2010
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Good to see that the Brentford players have changed their minds, and will take the knee in all Prem games.
 
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May 16, 2016
3,735
125
Well I think its been a massive success. Not only did the booing reduce to practically nothing by the end of the Euros, but as we can see eg from these 37 pages and media coverage, its kept the anti racism message in the news. That's the whole point of the gesture. And those abusing players eg online have been called out and isolated.

Yes there's been the distractors trying to pretend its something to do with Marxism for reasons still not apparent but that seems to be behind us now.

The value of its ongoing message I see by imagining parents taking their kids to Argyle for the first time. The kids ask about the players taking the knee and parents explain the no to racism message. If the players become heroes to the kids then that's a message they're likely to take home.
When was the last time racism was experienced at Home Park ? I've not personally heard any since that Burnley game the best part of two generations ago.

The only other racist comments I've heard at a football game I've been involved in since then were directed at me.

The 37+ pages of this thread prove it's not been a success in ending racism away from the Stadium. The only gain is the mileage some have squeezed out of the subject.

Edited to add: The generation of Kids going to their first games will be of the one that fully understands racism and the most likely to not act or think in such a way.

Their Euro hero and Captain Harry Kane however, is currently demonstrating it's ok to not honour your commitments to an employer and throwing a selfish strop will get you what you want.
 
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Nov 15, 2011
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It was never about addressing racism in stadiums, it was always about addressing the societal problems which for the reasons given above it is objectively doing very successfully.

Our discussion here was never going to end racism, but its good that you keep the conversation going.
 
Jul 29, 2010
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No Daz I don't need to get the Euros out of my head. a) I know what England fans are like I've followed them all over Europe including the Russia game in Marseille, they attract the worst type in terms of racists, after the Russia game I vowed never to attend an England game again, and b) if the booing from these people was reduced from loud and embarrassing at the start of the tournament to barely nothing at the end, that's a result whatever you say.

The reaction to Sancho etc was predictable but as noted on here was mostly from anonymous overseas accounts. People in this country were identified and shamed including a Sports teacher. The education from keeping the anti racism message in the headlines every week via the knee will be invaluable.

For the 100th time the players told you the Black Lives Matter message here had nothing to do with the politics of a small section of the BLM in America. If you are persuaded by some nefarious characters to do so, or pretend they are connected, that's your choice and you are intentionally disrespecting those giving the anti racism message who have told you they don't support this.
You are indeed correct in your statement that the booing reduced over the tournament but so did the length of time the players took the knee for and the amount the music was ‘ramped up’ for. I only missed the Germany game (don’t ask 🙄) and the booing from where I was in the stadium was initially loud and clear but this did diminish as we progressed. That is my view as an eye witness…
 
Mar 7, 2010
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Manchester
When was the last time racism was experienced at Home Park ? I've not personally heard any since that Burnley game the best part of two generations ago.

The only other racist comments I've heard at a football game I've been involved in since then were directed at me.

The 37+ pages of this thread prove it's not been a success in ending racism away from the Stadium. The only gain is the mileage some have squeezed out of the subject.

Edited to add: The generation of Kids going to their first games will be of the one that fully understands racism and the most likely to not act or think in such a way.

Their Euro hero and Captain Harry Kane however, is currently demonstrating it's ok to not honour your commitments to an employer and throwing a selfish strop will get you what you want.

Charlton at home couple of seasons ago.
Loudly. Reported it. Gave statements at Charles Cross. Guy was still there a few weeks later.

And again very recently at half time when overhearing someone say 'they ought to bring darkie on', referring to an Argyle player.

Edited to add, now I think of it, audible chants of 'you're a town full of p's' during an Oldham visit
 
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