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BLM, Taking a knee and THAT symbol of racism

GreenThing

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Sep 13, 2003
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Read very carefully as you don’t seem to be taking it in. I am not personally linking the BLM movement to the BLM slogan. I take exception to the way you are using phrases such as ‘people like you’ and ‘motivates you to pretend’ to imply that I’m racist when I’m discussing why I believe people are acting in a certain way and trying to be open minded about the debate rather than taking a blinkered approach.

I am explaining that I understand confusion is likely because they use the same actions and slogans. It’s similar to the way that people flying the St George’s cross get labelled fascist as fascists have been known to use the St George’s cross. Do you have to be stupid to believe there is a link between BLM and the BLM slogan? Maybe, maybe not, but it is the stupid people who need educating so if it’s done in a way that will confuse a stupid person, then a different approach needs to be taken.
 
Nov 15, 2011
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I haven't implied you are racist, I have no idea whether that is the case. I'm trying to understand why you are posting again and again about the link between footballers taking the knee and the American political movement when you haven't provided evidence of one person who still thinks that.

The players have explained there's no link, the fans at Wembley realised there's no link so who are these people that still think this? Maybe I read the wrong newspapers but I haven't seen one that links the 2 , so just tell where you get the information that "people" still think footballers taking the knee is linked to US BLM politics?

And you are telling black people to change the way they protest because people are stupid, rather than explaining the gesture to them? Is that right?
 

GreenThing

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No, I’ve explained it but you are too blinkered to take it in. The reason I post over and over again is because you don’t seem to get it. No point banging my head against the wall any more. I’m out.
 
Nov 15, 2011
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Stay with it Green, who are these "people" who still think our footballers taking the knee is linked to the US BLM political movement. Where have you seen / read this?

And I do think I understand what you say, I'm just trying to understand the reasoning behind it.
 

GreenThing

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loads of posts on Facebook, Twitter etc for a long long time. It’s obvious that a lot of people link the two. Regardless if there is or isn’t a link, peoples perceived link will stop the message getting across. The important thing is to is to get that message across and if the perceived link cannot be broken, then it makes sense to try a different approach. Digging your heels in and protesting in your way when it’s not working is counter productive.
 
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Nov 15, 2011
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"Loads of posts on facebook" hmmm , well considering we're talking about football fans and 60,000 fans didn't boo at all a month ago I don't think that "It’s obvious that a lot of people link the two" is actually true.

Further "Digging your heels in and protesting in your way when it’s not working" seems the opposite of what actually happened , they dug their heels in at the start of the Euros and it patently worked!

Maybe the Facebook sites you frequent are not representative of actual football fans ? Perhaps you could educate these "stupid people" as to how the rest of the country understands what our footballers are doing?
 

GreenThing

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Believe what you like, if you don’t think that people post on social media about their perceived link between the gesture and the political group then you’re burying your head in the sand. I’m trying to keep an open mind over what’s going on rather than taking a blinkered view. If you think that the people who don’t get it aren’t worth it, when they are the people who need educating rather than the people who already get it, then you are part of the problem rather than the people you accuse of being part of the problem.

If we’re only talking about the 60,000 at Wembley and that they didn’t boo the knee, job done then, no need to keep taking the knee. However, the problem is more widespread than those at the England match.

You don’t seem to be able to look at the bigger picture and see what’s really going on, you only seem to want to win an argument on an Internet forum. So like I said earlier, I’m out now, I’ve made my points and no point in continuing to bang my head against this wall, if I’m going to bang my head I’ll put some Metallica on.
 
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Nov 15, 2011
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Well I'm on Facebook and Twitter and I follow a wide range of people, including ones I don't agree with. In the last month the only negative reference to the knee I've seen was when the guy was sacked from GB News for taking the knee and Farage and the likes piled in. And we know where they're coming from.

You say I am part of the problem as I think "the people who don’t get it aren’t worth it", which you know is simply not true , I've pointed out time and again on this thread that people need educating as to what the players are doing.

Regarding the 60,000 at Wembley, well in my opinion if they get the message then fans generally have got it, I follow England and was in Marseille for England v Russia and England supporters represent some of the most difficult educational challenges. If they get it then there's hope.

And I don't seek to win an argument, just give my opinion and understand what other people think. Motorhead's my cup of tea.
 
Jan 27, 2012
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Who are you to tell footballers how they should stand against racism?
a paying customer
And at some point you have to stop pretending footballers support BLM politics when they’ve told you they don’t .
You‘ve said this three times now. On each occasion I have asked you to provide evidence of a footballer saying these things and each time you ignore me.

What is it about people fighting against racism that frightens you and upsets you?
Because BLM is not confined to fighting racism. It has wider political aims that I don‘t support. The knee is perceived by some as gesture politics- including some in government.

I dont want politics mixing with sports entertainment.
 
Nov 15, 2011
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1. You pay to watch a football match, not to tell footballers they can't make a 10 second non political stand against racism before the match. If anti racism upsets you so much look away for 10 seconds, I know you can get through it.

2. Gareth Southgate said “I think we have got a situation where some people seem to think it is a political stand that they don’t agree with. That is not the reason the players are doing it. We are supporting each other."

Tyrone Mings said "We’ve spoken about trying to educate or trying to inform the minority who refuse to acknowledge why we’re taking the knee and want to boo it,”

Plymouth's own Conservative Minister Johnny Mercer said regarding Ming's statement "The painful truth is that this guy is completely right. Very uncomfortable with the position we Conservatives are needlessly forcing ourselves into. Do I fight it or stay silent? Modern Conservatism was always so much more to me. We must not lose our way. It's a gesture as one of solidarity against racism. It’s not about the ties of the taking a knee to BLM. It’s about empathy with our fellow countrymen who suffer appalling abuse. Empathy. What it’s like to be them. It’s not hard.”

So it's not political unless you think they are all liars.

3. Footballers taking the knee is confined to fighting racism according to the players, so if you don't think they are liars then you are pretending it's political. Why? You say "The knee is perceived by some as gesture politics- including some in government." So what, they're wrong according to the people doing it.

So we've established it's not political from those actually doing it, but you still pretend it is, so why does our footballers fighting racism upset you so much?
 
Apr 30, 2004
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Launceston
OK, you are right and there are no other valid points of view.
If this is confined to football and everyone in Home Park agrees, what is being achieved.
How does this influence or educate someone who isn't attending?
 
Nov 15, 2011
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Well I disagree Keith, everyone's point of view is valid and should be heard. The fact that opinions are divided is good.

I don't know if the players will take the knee at HP this season. However you can see from the last 36 pages not everyone will agree. For those not attending football matches there's tv coverage and many many other ways people are fighting racism.
 
Sep 3, 2008
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Plymouth
I just fail to understand why some people believe that BLM in America now own the gesture of taking the knee. Just don't be fortunate enough to receive a knighthood. Kneel before the Queen and you'll be accused of wanting to defund US Police Departments.
 
Jan 20, 2004
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This topic of now 36 pages has been flogged to death. Page 36 contains almost the same arguements as page 1, with much of the same content within the 34 pages in the middle. It just seems to go on and on and on, and round and round and round 🤪. I have literally nodded off on more than one occasion trying to get to the end of new postings.😴

What a sad life I must lead that Ikeep coming back for more