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BLM, Taking a knee and THAT symbol of racism

Jul 15, 2006
3,847
39
Kenton, Devon
It's from this article from 2016 from the Scientific American as it analysed Kaepernick's kneeling. To be sure Greeneagle - or whoever he nicked it from - has edited it somewhat. For instance, they missed out this bit:

Which returns us to the kneel. Kneeling is a sign of reverence, submissiveness, deference—and sometimes mourning and vulnerability. But with a single, graceful act, Kaepernick invested it with a double meaning. He didn’t turn his back as the anthem was played, which would have been a true sign of disrespect. Nor did he rely on the now-conventionalized black-power fist. Rather, he transformed a collective ritual—the playing of the national anthem—into something somber, a reminder of how far we still have to go to realize the high ideal of equal protection under the law that the flag represents.

...

By transforming this ritual, the players woke us up. Our amygdalae activate as soon as our brains spot deviations from routine, social norms, and in-group tendencies. We want to know what’s happening and why. We need to know if the deviation poses a threat to us or our group. This may start to explain why so many Americans reacted with such fear and rage to a few athletes kneeling on the field in the midst of a national ritual.

...

“Breaking these norms is used intentionally to signal disagreement with the norms, as well as to signal that one is not conforming. It sparks strong emotion and backlash precisely because of its symbolic meaning—a threat to the status quo.”

It's actually a very interesting article, which touches on the passive but respectful defiant act performed by (originally) black descendants from slaves in front of the predominantly white masters watching from the terraces. It's the passive part of the gesture which really riles those the act is aimed at (some here seem equally riled) because they expect defiance to be aggressive (the clenched fist) because, when it is aggressive, it justifies their stance against the black person. Kneeling passively challenges them and puts them in a situation which they are uncomfortable with.
 

Willis88

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Jan 17, 2017
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Quinny":2wyohpw2 said:
It's from this article from 2016 from the Scientific American as it analysed Kaepernick's kneeling. To be sure Greeneagle - or whoever he nicked it from - has edited it somewhat. For instance, they missed out this bit:

Which returns us to the kneel. Kneeling is a sign of reverence, submissiveness, deference—and sometimes mourning and vulnerability. But with a single, graceful act, Kaepernick invested it with a double meaning. He didn’t turn his back as the anthem was played, which would have been a true sign of disrespect. Nor did he rely on the now-conventionalized black-power fist. Rather, he transformed a collective ritual—the playing of the national anthem—into something somber, a reminder of how far we still have to go to realize the high ideal of equal protection under the law that the flag represents.

...

By transforming this ritual, the players woke us up. Our amygdalae activate as soon as our brains spot deviations from routine, social norms, and in-group tendencies. We want to know what’s happening and why. We need to know if the deviation poses a threat to us or our group. This may start to explain why so many Americans reacted with such fear and rage to a few athletes kneeling on the field in the midst of a national ritual.

...

“Breaking these norms is used intentionally to signal disagreement with the norms, as well as to signal that one is not conforming. It sparks strong emotion and backlash precisely because of its symbolic meaning—a threat to the status quo.”

It's actually a very interesting article, which touches on the passive but respectful defiant act performed by (originally) black descendants from slaves in front of the predominantly white masters watching from the terraces. It's the passive part of the gesture which really riles those the act is aimed at (some here seem equally riled) because they expect defiance to be aggressive (the clenched fist) because, when it is aggressive, it justifies their stance against the black person. Kneeling passively challenges them and puts them in a situation which they are uncomfortable with.

Just goes to show the difference between copying someone's post on the Internet and actually doing the research yourself.

Nice job Quinny
 
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Jan 26, 2004
3,618
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Brisbane, Australia
So so you equate copying a sensible written article with copying and distorting the original meaning of the kneeling act?
As others have stated, a different and more original gesture might garner more respect. That’s the only point I was trying to make.
I understand some may have a different viewpoint and that’s fine.
 
Jul 15, 2006
3,847
39
Kenton, Devon
So in the last 24-odd hours, we've had one of the faces of right-leaning GB News suddenly understand why players are taking the knee to the extent that he did so himself on air (to the apoplexy of the 30 or so REMOVED viewers left watching that hopeless news channel). Now we've got Tories like Steve Baker praising the footballers for their "powerful" gesture and saying that if the message it was trying to portray was clear about racism and not relating to defunding the police, he'd take the knee.
 
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Sep 25, 2010
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Would love to hear the current views of those on here, who previously supported the ‘booing’, of taking the knee.

Have they finally got the message, that it is an Anti racism act, and not about Marxism of police finance.

Come on, what are your thoughts now.
 
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Nov 15, 2011
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So in the last 24-odd hours, we've had one of the faces of right-leaning GB News suddenly understand why players are taking the knee to the extent that he did so himself on air (to the apoplexy of the 30 or so Removed by Site Admin viewers left watching that hopeless news channel). Now we've got Tories like Steve Baker praising the footballers for their "powerful" gesture and saying that if the message it was trying to portray was clear about racism and not relating to defunding the police, he'd take the knee.
I think that one conclusion we can draw from the last few weeks is that taking the knee has been very effective.

There was hardly any booing at the final, and it was good to see the Italian players reciprocate, either the booers were shamed into silence or more optimistically realised that what they were doing was wrong. Perhaps they now understand that a) it's up to the players how they fight racism b) those conflating it with a Marxist movement were doing so disingenuously c) the players aren't liars.

Without it Patel and Johnson may not have been so clearly exposed for their hypocrisy in at the same time appeasing and calling out racists.
 
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Mar 7, 2010
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Manchester
Johnson and Patel are rightly being derided as the worst kinds of hypocrite, especially Johnson whose career is indisputably littered with blatantly racist remarks and writings...
However let's not forget the previous culprits like May and Rudd with their 'go home' vans, 'hostile environment' and utterly criminal handling of the Windrush situation.
For a decade now these people have fomented and encouraged those with the very worst prejudices to feel legitimatised.
Any condemnation now by Johnson, Patel and many others who have used those prejudices for their own ends is beyond phoney.
 
Dec 27, 2004
737
26
Bidford on Avon
I pondered the other week whether taking the knee was being used by Johnson et al to stoke things up and as such was losing its potency, but fast forward a few weeks and Johnson’s chickens have come home to roost and the Conservatives are desperately trying to defend the division and separation they're trying to foment.

The race issue is one thing, but adding to this the politicising of masks and it's a heady toxic cocktail.

I thought he'd talked about healing the nation during the leadership debate?

The division has been massively increased in many areas

Trump Jr
 
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Reactions: up the line
Jul 15, 2006
3,847
39
Kenton, Devon
So in the last 24-odd hours, we've had one of the faces of right-leaning GB News suddenly understand why players are taking the knee to the extent that he did so himself on air (to the apoplexy of the 30 or so REMOVED viewers left watching that hopeless news channel). Now we've got Tories like Steve Baker praising the footballers for their "powerful" gesture and saying that if the message it was trying to portray was clear about racism and not relating to defunding the police, he'd take the knee.

It was reported yesterday that GB News had zero viewers for some of their broadcasts 😅 as a result of on-air taking of the knee. GB News finally released a statement saying that the taking of the knee was against their standards, so that news channel built around free expression has some limits. Cancel culture, eh?
 
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Jan 27, 2012
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First time I've looked in here.
Quinny- I like your Manic Miner icon !

Taking the Knee has become political. As we know, politics and sport don't sit very well together. So its now its time for players to stop taking the knee. By all means go back to the 'kick out racisim' campain but no more kneeling from Argyle please.... its only going to end up causing arguments amongst supporters. I prefer to focus entirely on football matters when I am attending games.
 

Willis88

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Jan 17, 2017
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It's only been made political by those who oppose it.

There was no politics in it until Boris and the other bonkers lot decided to argue against it, and then for it.

All along everyone who did it/agreed with it said it was an anti-racism stance, that's what it always has been.
 
Nov 15, 2011
1,735
143
It's only been made political by those who oppose it.

There was no politics in it until Boris and the other bonkers lot decided to argue against it, and then for it.

All along everyone who did it/agreed with it said it was an anti-racism stance, that's what it always has been.
Exactly it's not political in any way, except to those who want to distract from people standing against racism. It was great to see that by the final both England and Italy took the knee to no fuss whatsoever, the message seems to be getting through.

As for the idea that white people should tell black people how to show their feelings against racism, well that's part of the problem.
 

signalspast

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Aug 17, 2005
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It's only been made political by those who oppose it.

There was no politics in it until Boris and the other bonkers lot decided to argue against it, and then for it.

All along everyone who did it/agreed with it said it was an anti-racism stance, that's what it always has Disagree

It's only been made political by those who oppose it.

There was no politics in it until Boris and the other bonkers lot decided to argue against it, and then for it.

All along everyone who did it/agreed with it said it was an anti-racism stance, that's what it always has been.
The problem is the whole thing has been politicised and trying to just say its not got politics within it when the two are so closely linked is being as blind as the ones who says it's totally political. I consider if they wish to continue they need to rename it so its not linked with the BLM movement. Say rename it to Take the Knee so it can cover all racism. White/Black Black/White or even nationals with mixed ethnicity. Sorry if my ramblings don't make sense
 
Mar 7, 2010
5,725
183
Manchester
First time I've looked in here.
Quinny- I like your Manic Miner icon !

Taking the Knee has become political. As we know, politics and sport don't sit very well together. So its now its time for players to stop taking the knee. By all means go back to the 'kick out racisim' campain but no more kneeling from Argyle please.... its only going to end up causing arguments amongst supporters. I prefer to focus entirely on football matters when I am attending games.
So (despite saying you aren't against the kick it out campaign: I guess a t shirt is easy to ignore) you don't think football, with its exposure, wealth and popular reach should be a platform to try to promote positive societal change?

The players, the managers have all said that, for them, it's not a political gesture....but apparently some in the stands know the footballers minds even better than they do.

The taking of the knee takes ten seconds before the kick off is taken.
Are you seriously saying that is preventing you from 'concentrating on football'?!
 
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Willis88

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Jan 17, 2017
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Bovey Tracey
The problem is the whole thing has been politicised and trying to just say its not got politics within it when the two are so closely linked is being as blind as the ones who says it's totally political. I consider if they wish to continue they need to rename it so its not linked with the BLM movement. Say rename it to Take the Knee so it can cover all racism. White/Black Black/White or even nationals with mixed ethnicity. Sorry if my ramblings don't make sense
I see what you're saying but then there's no point to doing anything.

Push the "Kick it out" program and people will decide that's now political, Boris will oppose it, then support it and then suddenly it's political and should be stopped.

The politics behind it is that it upsets those people who are upset by anything they decide is anti them, whilst they're completely ignorant to the fact they're part of the problem.

There has been a massive outcry from certain groups this week against the RNLI as they're refusing to follow the new anti-migration laws by continuing to help save lives of migrants who may drown in the channel. An organisation which is entirely non-political now made political by the government and right wing nut jobs.

Should we shut down the RNLI because of those people too?