At what point is Brenda obliged to give up on the PB? | Page 5 | PASOTI
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At what point is Brenda obliged to give up on the PB?

Tugboat

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LG":359ee14b said:
When he's finished his chips. :wink:
:|
Are you saying ridsdale and Reid are in the casino playing poker to try and raise some money for the club?
 
Jun 21, 2005
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Shadowknight":2jaxerwb said:
Greenblooded1":2jaxerwb said:
The blox that "there is no alternative", is just there way of achieving success, giving the PB our PAFC to get their pay off. Simple as..

I suppose it all depends on the person's definition of success.

Brenda. *some* debts are paid. I get paid.
Heaney. Cinema, Buildings, Truro.
Ridsdale. Job for a year, cash in pocket, move on ASAP.
Fans. We get to watch football, staff are paid what they are owed.

While they are not all mutually exclusive, they don't all move in the same direction either.

Agree, it does depend on the persons definition of success. My concern is that success for Risdale & Gullible & is measured on the amount of money the NWO get back, which obviously will be to the detriment of our football club now & over time, as we could be repaying them for many years to come.

The NWO messed up, they need to suffer the loss, not everone else.
 
G

grovehill

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Greenblooded1":2d8esuah said:
Shadowknight":2d8esuah said:
Greenblooded1":2d8esuah said:
The blox that "there is no alternative", is just there way of achieving success, giving the PB our PAFC to get their pay off. Simple as..

I suppose it all depends on the person's definition of success.

Brenda. *some* debts are paid. I get paid.
Heaney. Cinema, Buildings, Truro.
Ridsdale. Job for a year, cash in pocket, move on ASAP.
Fans. We get to watch football, staff are paid what they are owed.

While they are not all mutually exclusive, they don't all move in the same direction either.

Agree, it does depend on the persons definition of success. My concern is that success for Ridsdale & Gullible & is measured on the amount of money the NWO get back, which obviously will be to the detriment of our football club now & over time, as we could be repaying them for many years to come.

The NWO messed up, they need to suffer the loss, not everone else.


Guilfoyle is legally required to get the best deal for creditors, not ensure the future success of the football club.

So the better the deal for NWO (provided it's not to the detriment of other creditors) the better Guilfoyle has done his job.

If an Administrator can get a better deal for creditors by liquidating a business, that's what he has to do.

If a "deal" whether it be, Preferred bidder, Rescue, Plan B, or whatever anyone wants to call it, is best for the football club is irrelevant. Guilfoyle is working on behalf of the creditors and has to get the best deal he can for them. And Secured debts take priority over unsecured debts.

So, a plan that, for example put more money into paying staff wages and less into paying off secured creditors like Lombard & Mastpoint, would not be acceptable.
 

monkeywrench

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Grovehill, if any deal to pay wages and an amount to lombard etc is more than BG could get through liquidation, then surely it would be acceptable?
 
Jun 21, 2005
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grovehill":2lidhuqr said:
Greenblooded1":2lidhuqr said:
Shadowknight":2lidhuqr said:
I suppose it all depends on the person's definition of success.

Brenda. *some* debts are paid. I get paid.
Heaney. Cinema, Buildings, Truro.
Ridsdale. Job for a year, cash in pocket, move on ASAP.
Fans. We get to watch football, staff are paid what they are owed.

While they are not all mutually exclusive, they don't all move in the same direction either.

Agree, it does depend on the persons definition of success. My concern is that success for Ridsdale & Gullible & is measured on the amount of money the NWO get back, which obviously will be to the detriment of our football club now & over time, as we could be repaying them for many years to come.

The NWO messed up, they need to suffer the loss, not everone else.

"the better the deal for NWO (provided it's not to the detriment of other creditors) the better Guilfoyle has done his job".

Obviously I'd prefer the local businesses, staff & our football club to not suffer due to the mess up of the NWO.
 
Dec 2, 2010
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grovehill":1x0xmo9t said:
Guilfoyle is legally required to get the best deal for creditors, not ensure the future success of the football club.
So the better the deal for NWO (provided it's not to the detriment of other creditors) the better Guilfoyle has done his job.

If an Administrator can get a better deal for creditors by liquidating a business, that's what he has to do.
If a "deal" whether it be, Preferred bidder, Rescue, Plan B, or whatever anyone wants to call it, is best for the football club is irrelevant. Guilfoyle is working on behalf of the creditors and has to get the best deal he can for them. And Secured debts take priority over unsecured debts.

So, a plan that, for example put more money into paying staff wages and less into paying off secured creditors like Lombard & Mastpoint, would not be acceptable.
Where are you quoting that from?

http://www.richardlong.co.uk/corporate.html
What is the purpose of an Administration?
•There are three main purposes of an Administration:
rescuing the company as a going concern, OR
◦achieving a better result for the company’s creditors as a whole than would be likely if the company were wound up (without first being in administration), OR
◦realising property in order to make a distribution to one or more secured or preferential creditors

What are the duties of the Administrator?
To achieve the three main aims of Administration in order of priority. This can include continuing to trade the company or opting for a total shut down.
•To complete an investigation into the company's affairs and submit a report to the Department of Trade and Industry.
•To protect the interest of all creditors as a whole. The practice of being “the bank’s man” has now changed and the Administrator has a duty to all creditors and not just his appointer.

http://www.newsomevaughan.co.uk/news/le ... ration.pdf
The main aim of administration is to rescue the company so that it can continue trading as a
going concern.
If this cannot be achieved, there are two other reasons why a company may
go into administration:
o To achieve a better result for the company’s creditors as a whole than would be likely
if the company was put into liquidation.
o To sell the company’s property to make a distribution to the company’s secured or
preferential creditors.

http://www.inhouselawyer.co.uk/index.ph ... our-rights
has more details
 

Trev501

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I would guess the hold-up is simply to wait for the FLs decision.
 
Jan 16, 2005
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I am sure this has occurred to people but the delay could simply be caused by the PB wanting to put pressure on the FL to accept a less than perfect situation by giving them the information they requested about the ownership structure at the 11th hour.

Similarly it could have been a judgement by the PB that they could get away without fulfilling their commitment to the full £1m admin costs by delaying the process. If the football club when separated from the property end up picking up the football related debts over a period of time I think they would see that as a result.
 

Tugboat

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Trev501":2m42np22 said:
I would guess the hold-up is simply to wait for the FLs decision.

I thought the FL have given ridsdale a 'guideline' of what needs to be done/completed before they give the green light?

I think it's gone on far to long now and if the deal was achievable it would have been completed a long time ago.

I can't believe we are still being given the run around with Brendan saying things are still on track. BOLLOX you wet fart, grow a pair and end this poo so we can move onto the next option to save this club.
 
Jan 16, 2005
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From the PB point of view it is in their interest to keep their money in the their bank as long as possible and not to complete until they absolutely have to.
They have no interest in the football club so any problems like getting players in , kit sponsorship are of little relevance. It is likely that they will not start to get a return on their investment until they sell the developments on to the end user so the shorter the time between paying out and getting money in the better and in the mean time they have a heap of planning consents to negotiate.
 
G

grovehill

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Quote:
The main aim of administration is to rescue the company so that it can continue trading as a
going concern.THE ORIGINAL BUSINESS HAS ALREADY GONE, IT HAD FAR GREATER DEBTS THAN IT COULD COVER If this cannot be achieved, there are two other reasons why a company may
go into administration:
o To achieve a better result for the company’s creditors as a whole than would be likely
if the company was put into liquidation.YES LIQUIDATION IS THE LAST RESORT IF NO BUYER CAN BE FOUND WHO WILL GIVE A BETTER DEAL THAN STRAIGHTFORWARD LIQUIDATION
o To sell the company’s property to make a distribution to the company’s secured or
preferential creditors.
THIS IS WHAT GUILFOYLE IS TRYING TO DO NOW-SELL THE BUSINESS AS A GOING CONCERN

The worst case scenario is that any offers for the business as a going concern fall through or are for less than the "assets" are worth-in which case the only option for the Administrator is to sell all the assets (football stadium, other property, players, office furniture etc) separately to raise funds for the creditors.

Of course, any deal that would involve selling the ground for less than what Lombard/Mastpoint think it's worth (i.e. less than they would get if someone else bought it) would be blocked by Lombard. If you fail to pay your mortgage, the building society don't let you sell the house to, say, your brother in law for a thousand pounds just so your family can stay there, when they can get £50,000 at auction.

If an investor offers more for Home Park than PCC may do, the investor will get it. The fact that he would charge Argyle twice as much rent than PCC is irrelevant.

This is why Plan B looks shaky (apart from the fact that PCC have made no commitment to buy the ground)
 
Dec 2, 2010
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Plymouth
grovehill":2xng4blr said:
Quote:
The main aim of administration is to rescue the company so that it can continue trading as a
going concern.THE ORIGINAL BUSINESS HAS ALREADY GONE, IT HAD FAR GREATER DEBTS THAN IT COULD COVER (The company/BUSINESS is the football club. It still exists, just. PR is buying it for £1.) If this cannot be achieved, there are two other reasons why a company may
go into administration:
o To achieve a better result for the company’s creditors as a whole than would be likely
if the company was put into liquidation.YES LIQUIDATION IS THE LAST RESORT IF NO BUYER CAN BE FOUND WHO WILL GIVE A BETTER DEAL THAN STRAIGHTFORWARD LIQUIDATION
o To sell the company’s property to make a distribution to the company’s secured or
preferential creditors.
THIS IS WHAT GUILFOYLE IS TRYING TO DO NOW-SELL THE BUSINESS AS A GOING CONCERN

The worst case scenario is that any offers for the business as a going concern fall through or are for less than the "assets" are worth-in which case the only option for the Administrator is to sell all the assets (football stadium, other property, players, office furniture etc) separately to raise funds for the creditors.

Of course, any deal that would involve selling the ground for less than what Lombard/Mastpoint think it's worth (i.e. less than they would get if someone else bought it) would be blocked by Lombard. If you fail to pay your mortgage, the building society don't let you sell the house to, say, your brother in law for a thousand pounds just so your family can stay there, when they can get £50,000 at auction.

If an investor offers more for Home Park than PCC may do, the investor will get it. The fact that he would charge Argyle twice as much rent than PCC is irrelevant.

This is why Plan B looks shaky (apart from the fact that PCC have made no commitment to buy the ground)

BG is still rescuing the club as a going concern. Wrong. Please see below.
 
G

grovehill

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The business is not just the football club. The Business that owned the football club also owned the ground and other property, legally it's all one entity.


Anyway, things would be a lot worse if it was just the football club, no one would want to buy a club with that amount of debt around it's neck.

As it is, (future) profits from the property will be used to offset (past) football club debts.
 

Peter Jones

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Grovehill

I think you are ignoring one issue here.

Which is not the stated will of the PB to deliver the "better deal".

But rather their ability to complete.

It's been known for a long time that there are conditions attached to the PB deal. Clarity on planning permission, and/or FL approval come to mind.

Clearly, something else needs to happen before they/he can write out the cheque. Commitment and cash from say, a cinema development company is my best bet.

It is by no means clear that the PB is currently in a position to complete. It's pretty clear that the £5m-odd needed to do so is yet to be lodged in an escrow account with their solicitors.

We are less than 2 weeks from the start of the season.

The club even now, is running at a cost of somewhere in the region of £300k a month.

There needs to be a credible and funded contingency plan. Ready to move, fast.

Otherwise the discussions here could well be about a club that no longer exists. Sooner than you think.
 
Dec 2, 2010
272
5
Plymouth
grovehill":1r9r2pgu said:
The business is not just the football club. The Business that owned the football club also owned the ground and other property, legally it's all one entity.


Anyway, things would be a lot worse if it was just the football club, no one would want to buy a club with that amount of debt around it's neck.

As it is, (future) profits from the property will be used to offset (past) football club debts.

BG's first priority is still to rescue the club as a going concern by finding a buyer for it. Edited to say I was WRONG. Please see my correction below.