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After Brexit

Jul 15, 2006
3,892
56
Kenton, Devon
It's been noted that the UK Govt hasn't published their revised proposals for the NIP: the EU have them, and we're aware of what the EU is proposing, but what [unelected bureaucrat] Lord Frost has sent to Brussels 🤷
 

Frank Butcher

Foodbank Donor
Oct 9, 2003
3,593
49
Gairloch
Have to disagree here Guiri. Through Chudleigh twinning I too have hosted and and been hosted by many french families. I agree they are very like us, and when you get to know them and their language, the similarities make it hard to understand why many do indeed dislike the french. I’ve yet to meet a single french person who insist the world speaks their language (although you’re right, many of us do), and in fact over the years I have found them extremely patient when I struggle to find the right phrase.

I have several Francophobe acquaintances, all elderly, all Daily Mail and Express readers who have never visited France or taken much interest in anything outside these shores, and I’m sure there are plenty more like them who form their views by ‘Up yours Delors’ style headlines. Hopefully a dying breed.

It’s all perspective really. The last 20 years of my career was with a very large global company working - and socialising - with people all around the world day after day (and night 😕).

You get to understand that no matter about culture and religion the vast majority all have the same values and priorities.

That said, on topic, in Europe the nations I felt were most ‘like us’ were the Germans, the Danes and the Dutch (in that order, the Germans clearly ahead). The French would have been quite some way down that list. I should say this was pretty much consistent among colleagues as well.
 
Nov 15, 2011
1,870
260
Personally I don’t judge people on their nationality or whether or not they are like us. I think it’s better to judge any person by what sort of person they are, and if they are different, well, vive la difference !
 

Duncanrice1

NHS Cake Donor
Jul 23, 2021
40
49
Well, its been an interesting day in the real world. The 'remainers' still don't accept the reality of post Brexit Britain and it seems will forever attempt to ferment 'Fear'..and with ref to earlier replies will never accept that France has made itself the hostile state (and not the other way round)...I just wonder why they hate their nation state so much? Night all....I await the inevitable leftie anti Brit pile in with amusement and sympathy. (ps HMS Queen Elizabeth now ruling the China Straights to Japan...)
 
Nov 15, 2011
1,870
260
The “real world” where the french are all baddies and we’re the goodies. And the real patriots are anti British.

Very good though, loved the bit about the boat.
 
Jan 20, 2004
755
34
Well, its been an interesting day in the real world. The 'remainers' still don't accept the reality of post Brexit Britain and it seems will forever attempt to ferment 'Fear'..and with ref to earlier replies will never accept that France has made itself the hostile state (and not the other way round)...I just wonder why they hate their nation state so much? Night all....I await the inevitable leftie anti Brit pile in with amusement and sympathy. (ps HMS Queen Elizabeth now ruling the China Straights to Japan...)

You're right Duncan, what is the point of dreaming of a United Kingdom in a United Europe in the hope of a United World, when the reality is a world of polarisation, hate and division, and you and Ninja along with many others are "loving it"

Some of us will carry on dreaming to help us get through the day.
 
Nov 15, 2011
1,870
260
The Government along with client journalists in the Sun/mail/express/telegraph have to keep the hate going, have to have an enemy to distract from the Brexit lies.

Yesterday it was doctors, the ones we cheered and clapped from our doorsteps , Javid told them in the morning they had to get back to face to face consultations, then cancelled his face to face meeting with the doctors in the afternoon.

As for the NIP I can only see 2 possible outcomes. Either the Government accepts the EUs tinkering and get their journalists to laud this as a great victory, although it accepts a border in the Irish Sea which they said they would never accept, and they cheered on Iron Man Johnson when he said there would only ever be a border in the Irish Sea over his dead body. Problem here is the DUP won't accept this as he told them he would rip up the NIP and the DUP although becoming increasingly irrelevant can bring down the NI Assembly.

Or they could press the nuclear button and invoke Article 16 to effectively blow up the NIP. Whilst pleasing its core voters, the DUP and ERG this would be seen internationally, and particularly in the US, as dangerous and reckless and endangering peace in NI. It would also ignite a full on trade war with Europe, who I think would target specific areas with tariffs, eg fish, beef, lamb, cars etc . We would respond and everyone's a loser but when you consider only 8% of EU exports go to the UK v 43% of UK exports going to the EU it will decimate parts of the UK economy.
 
Feb 22, 2008
762
10
Mainly Saltash
You're right Duncan, what is the point of dreaming of a United Kingdom in a United Europe in the hope of a United World, when the reality is a world of polarisation, hate and division, and you and Ninja along with many others are "loving it"

Some of us will carry on dreaming to help us get through the day.
Aah, commie utopia, fingers crossed eh, love and kisses all round... what makes you think the human race is capable of that? I'd love to be proved wrong but human nature makes us argue and fight - a 'united world' will remain in your dream.

The reality is that the EU is desperate for Brexit to fail. They're not our friends and anyone who thinks they are needs to open their eyes. And the French and English, as nations, have never really got on.

I didn't mind the EEC- a trading arrangement where a number of geographically close nations could trade favourably with each other held a lot of advantages. But the modern EU? Expansionist. Bureaucratic, self-serving and controlling. With it's own flag and anthem. Ambassadors too. And keen for it's own armed forces. And ever closer union. Where will it end? No thanks, not for me.

And what makes you think I'm "loving it"? Far from it.
 

signalspast

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T.O Support
Aug 17, 2005
1,336
26
Article 16 doesn't blow anything out of the water. It is very subjective where the uk had to list the problems that they have with the nip in its current form. It allows the EU to take proportional retaliatory actions. It is subject to annex 7 which states that the joint committees are to meet every 3 months to discuss and attempt to resolve the problems raised on both sides. The proportional retaliatory actions can be sent to an arbitration panel to decide if they are proportionate. So is it a nuclear button I don't think so more a device that will force both sides to discuss what the other side sees as a problem or so called red line
 
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Jul 15, 2006
3,892
56
Kenton, Devon
The reality is that the EU is desperate for Brexit to fail. They're not our friends and anyone who thinks they are needs to open their eyes. And the French and English, as nations, have never really got on.

No, it isn't that the EU is desperate for Brexit to fail - it's just that they're not going to bend over backwards for us to make it succeed, and that's their right (we've left and they've moved on). As it is, the only people hell-bent on making Brexit fail are the likes of Boris and [unelected bureaucrat] Lord Frost by rushing through an agreement knowing full-well they were going to renege on it.

If the UK Govt wants Brexit to succeed then they should swallow some of that pride of theirs and ask the EU for help, rather than being intentionally antagonistic.
 
Jul 15, 2006
3,892
56
Kenton, Devon
Article 16 doesn't blow anything out of the water. It is very subjective where the uk had to list the problems that they have with the nip in its current form. It allows the EU to take proportional retaliatory actions. It is subject to annex 7 which states that the joint committees are to meet every 3 months to discuss and attempt to resolve the problems raised on both sides. The proportional retaliatory actions can be sent to an arbitration panel to decide if they are proportionate. So is it a nuclear button I don't think so more a device that will force both sides to discuss what the other side sees as a problem or so called red line

Yes, there's a very naïve understanding of what Article 16 is.
 
Nov 15, 2011
1,870
260
Aah, commie utopia, fingers crossed eh, love and kisses all round... what makes you think the human race is capable of that? I'd love to be proved wrong but human nature makes us argue and fight - a 'united world' will remain in your dream.

The reality is that the EU is desperate for Brexit to fail. They're not our friends and anyone who thinks they are needs to open their eyes. And the French and English, as nations, have never really got on.

I didn't mind the EEC- a trading arrangement where a number of geographically close nations could trade favourably with each other held a lot of advantages. But the modern EU? Expansionist. Bureaucratic, self-serving and controlling. With it's own flag and anthem. Ambassadors too. And keen for it's own armed forces. And ever closer union. Where will it end? No thanks, not for me.

And what makes you think I'm "loving it"? Far from it.
So wanting countries and people to be more united and come together, is " a commie utopia". An interesting interpretation of Communism, and not quite the vision set out in the Communist Manifesto. Utopian politics is in many ways the opposite of Communism eg a benevolant government , that doesn't really work ninja.

And "human nature makes us argue and fight". Civilisation and human decency anyone? Although those who like hating and fighting will of course continue to do so , it's up to the rest of us to show them that that's not how civilised human beings behave in the 21st century.

"The EU is desperate for Brexit fail". Well it is failing and it's only just started, and it's the best advertisement for the EU in it's history. No one will ever do a Brexit again having seen the UK turn into a shameful 3rd world like corrupt dishonest international laughing stock. And fair play to them they're trying to sort out the mess in NI caused by Johnson's lies.

And the EU being "bureaucratic" that was the lol moment. The UK the only country in history to introduce self imposed bureaucracy and barriers to trade and red tape WITHIN ITS OWN BORDERS. And to impose trade sanctions and bureaucracy on itself with it's biggest customer where it sells half it's stuff. And that's before they've got Brexit done on this side, bureaucracy, you ain't seen nothing yet. But no worries we've got an unelected bureaucrat fighting our corner though unfortunately he doesn't appear to have the slightest idea about the deal he negotiated.
 
Nov 15, 2011
1,870
260
Article 16 doesn't blow anything out of the water. It is very subjective where the uk had to list the problems that they have with the nip in its current form. It allows the EU to take proportional retaliatory actions. It is subject to annex 7 which states that the joint committees are to meet every 3 months to discuss and attempt to resolve the problems raised on both sides. The proportional retaliatory actions can be sent to an arbitration panel to decide if they are proportionate. So is it a nuclear button I don't think so more a device that will force both sides to discuss what the other side sees as a problem or so called red line
Agreed in itself Article 16 isn't the nuclear option, but it's application in an attempt to disapply the NIP is, as Frost and Johnson want to do, as they told the DUP before they signed it.
 
May 16, 2016
3,868
212
No, it isn't that the EU is desperate for Brexit to fail - it's just that they're not going to bend over backwards for us to make it succeed, and that's their right (we've left and they've moved on). As it is, the only people hell-bent on making Brexit fail are the likes of Boris and [unelected bureaucrat] Lord Frost by rushing through an agreement knowing full-well they were going to renege on it.

If the UK Govt wants Brexit to succeed then they should swallow some of that pride of theirs and ask the EU for help, rather than being intentionally antagonistic.
Just a layman, but aren't a lot of the EU (unelected bureaucrats) too ?
 
Nov 15, 2011
1,870
260
Just a layman, but aren't a lot of the EU (unelected bureaucrats) too ?
No Guiri, all laws in the EU are passed 100% by MEPs democratically ELECTED by the people. Unlike in the UK where laws are passed by UNELECTED mates of Johnson including a Russian oligarch, a cricketer , a millionaire who gave Johnson his luxury villa in Marbella last week and Claire Fox who was an apologist for the IRA bombing in Warrington where children were killed. Oh and his brother.