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After Brexit

Nov 15, 2011
1,848
222
So Cummings finally admits the UK Government never intended to abide by the International Treaty they signed and lauded as a fantastic deal which they won an election on, he tweeted :

"good faith blah. listen to babble of student politics from sw1 insiders infantilised by EU membership. it was international diplomacy vs *people trying to cut our balls off*. of course there wasn't 'good faith' you clown. NEWSFLASH: cheating foreigners is a core part of the job"

I remember Bill Cash and the ERG saying he had received assurances from Johnson that we wouldn't put a border in the Irish Sea even though that's precisely what the NIP does to ensure continuing peace in Ireland.

The irony is that for most people in NI the NIP is working well. NI to Ireland trade has gone up 77% , being effectively in the single market means no empty shelves no petrol shortages and continued free trade with the only country with which they have a land border. The reason for (threatening to) invoke Article 16 is mainly political as a United Ireland is coming down the line fast and the DUP will do anything to stop that, and Johnson doesn't want that as his legacy.

It may be that Frost is just playing brinkmanship and claim the cancelling of checks on cold meats GB to NI as a triumph, but a) he knows he has to fully implement Brexit next year and b) the cats out of the bag, the rest of the world knows this UK Government can't be believed or trusted.

If he does invoke Article 16 it will inevitably start a trade war and eg high tariffs on Nissan cars, beef pork etc. It will hit the EU somewhat but it will devastate the UK economy.
 
Jul 15, 2006
3,887
54
Kenton, Devon
It's hardly a secret - the notion that the main Brexit cabal in the Cabinet never intended to honour the Northern Ireland Protocol has been a talking point for a while: that Boris wanted to see seen as an achiever by "getting the deal done" as promised ... and then unpick all the problematical bits down the line. After all, there was a reason at the time why Boris et al wanted as little Parliamentary scrutiny as possible at the time. I'm sure the EU were eyes-wide-open to this too.

The thing is, at the very last minute - after saying it wasn't a problem - is that now [unelected bureaucrat] Lord Frost is changing the argument to say that the ECJ bit is the problem. He knows full well the EU won't budge on this: he knows they can't move on this. But he and Boris will ignore all the concessions being offered by the EU today to help businesses in N'Orn Iron and make out that the EU are the baddies, when in reality - as Leo Varadkar has commented on this morning - the only country / bloc going to lose face in this to the rest of the world will be the UK.

I just wish the average Brexiter on the street would just [wo]man up and admit this rather than staying schtum on the matter.
 
Apr 15, 2004
2,873
137
East Devon
It’s a disgrace and really shameful that we sign an international treaty without intending to keep to the agreement. I thought that was the sort of thing that tin-pot dictatorships or military juntas did – not an advanced democratic country, the ‘mother of parliaments’ with a seat on the UN security council?

Bernard Jenkin – the Tory MP and Brexit ‘spartan’ was on Newsnight a couple of days ago saying how the EU were being terribly “unreasonable” so we may have to unilaterally invoke article 16. When Emily Maitlis said with exasperation “but we signed this deal!” – he just smiled and said (paraphrasing) “yes, but we were in a very weak position then and didn’t have many options – we just needed to get on with it”. Then Maitlis put it to him that Boris Johnson called it “a great deal” and he voted for it - to which he replied “well he had to try and sell it didn’t he?”

The sheer arrogance and shamelessness is simply breath taking.

What this government considers “reasonable” is clearly a moot point. But to most fair minded and rational people - signing and agreeing a deal, then cheering it through parliament, then selling it to the British people in an election calling it “a great deal for the UK”, and THEN saying you will break international law because actually it’s sh’t and you knew it was sh’t all along ...... is NOT REASONABLE.
 
Nov 15, 2011
1,848
222
Frost actually admitted yesterday that the NIP was working well for most of the people in NI! Whilst a small number of businesses that rely on UK trade are still encountering difficulties, more have switched to trading freely with Ireland or overcome the problems in other ways. The "British Sausage" nonsense was a politically contrived piece of Brexit drivel courtesy of the right wing press. NI produce more sausages than they could possibly eat and only 5% of the market comes from GB.

The reason Frost and the Government is concocting this fight is that with full shelves, no petrol crises and a strong economy in NI it highlights the stupidity of Brexit and the economic damage of being outside the single market. They don't give a damn about the people of NI, the reputation of the UK as an honest broker or anything other than not admitting they lied and conned the British people.
 
Apr 15, 2004
2,873
137
East Devon
A spokesman representing NI businesses and logistics groups said on R4's 'PM' programme tonight - that out of 18,000 members they've not had one saying they have a problem with ECJ overseeing the protocol. Not one!

Yet we are apparently prepared to renege on a treaty with our biggest trading partner, possibly provoking a trade war and trash our international reputation over this very issue.

This is nothing more than grubby political dogma. The hard Brexit nutters were never going to accept the border in the Irish sea and as for the ECJ involvement - you're 'avin a laugh aren't you? Signing the deal was just a political tactic for them - something to get them out of the hole (temporarily !) they had dug for us and something to con a Brexit-weary electorate with. Shameful!
 

Duncanrice1

NHS Cake Donor
Jul 23, 2021
35
42
Pretty obvious France is now a hostile state. Macron Peed off by Brexit, global trade deals, our vaccine superiority, HMS Queen Elizabeth cruising the Pacific and the coup de gras...the UK, Aussie and US submarine deal. I am loving every minute of it! Supply issues are not much to do with Brexit, it's a whole world issue post Covid....apart from the fact we will now need to pay those who are essential to our society what they are worth!
 
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Dec 27, 2004
760
33
Bidford on Avon
Pretty obvious France is now a hostile state. Macron Peed off by Brexit, global trade deals, our vaccine superiority, HMS Queen Elizabeth cruising the Pacific and the coup de gras...the UK, Aussie and US submarine deal. I am loving every minute of it! Supply issues are not much to do with Brexit, it's a whole world issue post Covid....apart from the fact we will now need to pay those who are essential to our society what they are worth!

Like nurses and doctors you mean ...... oh hang on 😳👍
 
Nov 15, 2011
1,848
222
Pretty obvious France is now a hostile state. Macron Peed off by Brexit, global trade deals, our vaccine superiority, HMS Queen Elizabeth cruising the Pacific and the coup de gras...the UK, Aussie and US submarine deal. I am loving every minute of it! Supply issues are not much to do with Brexit, it's a whole world issue post Covid....apart from the fact we will now need to pay those who are essential to our society what they are worth!
Unlike the U.K. who admit that “cheating foreigners is a core part of the job” , who sign International Treaties they never intend to honour and admit they will break the law in a specific and limited way to avoid getting Brexit done.

In my opinion this tells you everything you need to know about brexit. It’s all about “loving every minute “ of thinking you’ve given Johnny Foreigner a bloody nose when in fact your flailing drunken punch has missed and you’ve also accidentally sawn your own leg off.

It comes down to patriotism v nationalism. The patriots that only wanted the best for the British people, for them to benefit from the single market to stay wealthy and for their children and grandchildren to enjoy the freedoms and opportunities they had, and the nationalists who didn’t give a damn about making their neighbours and families poorer and less free as long as they thought they’d stamped on a foreigner.
 
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Pretty obvious France is now a hostile state. Macron Peed off by Brexit, global trade deals, our vaccine superiority, HMS Queen Elizabeth cruising the Pacific and the coup de gras...the UK, Aussie and US submarine deal. I am loving every minute of it! Supply issues are not much to do with Brexit, it's a whole world issue post Covid....apart from the fact we will now need to pay those who are essential to our society what they are worth!
I’m genuinely confused. What pleasure can you get in making France a hostile state? Is this just a France thing, or are you hostile to all foreign states, or just foreigners generally?
 

MickyD

Pasoti Donor
Dec 30, 2004
3,255
44
Brighton
I’m genuinely confused. What pleasure can you get in making France a hostile state? Is this just a France thing, or are you hostile to all foreign states, or just foreigners generally?
I've honestly never understood why so many Brits seem to harbour such animosity towards the French in particular, other than perhaps because they think that's how they're supposed to feel since lots of other people they know profess to feel that way, and that's how the newspapers they read say they should feel.

Have all these Francophobes suffered countless unpleasant personal experiences at the hands of French people? Do they perhaps harbour resentments relating to the Hundred Years' War? That one ended in 1453 - time to let the healing begin, guys!
 
Nov 15, 2011
1,848
222
Pretty obvious France is now a hostile state. Macron Peed off by Brexit, global trade deals, our vaccine superiority, HMS Queen Elizabeth cruising the Pacific and the coup de gras...the UK, Aussie and US submarine deal. I am loving every minute of it! Supply issues are not much to do with Brexit, it's a whole world issue post Covid....apart from the fact we will now need to pay those who are essential to our society what they are worth!
Just to disentangle the French bashing from the express style drivel, a few facts :

New trade deals with countries we didn't already have deals with - none, zero , zilch. The Japan one is slightly different , the others just rolled over what we had before, though we haven't secured all those we previously had. The only genuinely new one may be with Australia though the Government's own figures show they would need 200 similar deals to compensate for the loss of leaving the single market.

Vaccines, France has overtaken the UK in percentage of population fully vaccinated, but hey we had a head start which has put us in a much stronger position. In the last week :

UK new cases - 234,915 deaths - 770
France new case - 30,338 deaths - 216

As for the irrelevant boat cruising the Pacific that was funny. As if anyone is going to be impressed by a corrupt little country that boasts about their lies and untrustworthiness.

As for global shortages there are no empty shelves or petrol queues in France.

Finally "we will now need to pay those who are essential to our society what they are worth", you mean teachers nurses and policeman none of whom has had a pay rise in real terms for years of Tory Governments. That's how much they value essential workers.
 
May 16, 2016
3,864
205
Having hosted many older French language Students, I'd say most Brits that don't like the French is because they're exactly like us.

We all worry about the same things, worrying about caring for and feeding our families, worry about the future. We also share the traits of Imperialist history, being dismissive of anything other than their own opinion, egotistical, insist the world speaks their language and love to feel hard done by.

Edited to add, the elder Bretons that regularly stayed with us also had little respect for the Germans.

It's brilliant.
 
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Here’s a post Brexit likely consequence which to my mind becomes a little stronger every day. In the past 100 years 23 new countries have been created in greater Europe, most in the past 50 years. This seems to me a natural transition, as people have become more confident with the democratic process and opt for local control and accountability, whilst enjoying the economic assurance of the EU, EFTA etc.

Why should the UK be any different? The union is, in historic terms, fairly recent, so pre-Brexit there was already a ground swell in Scotland for separation, and in Ulster to be reunited with Ireland. Being EU members probably curbed that enthusiasm, as the majority in Ulster and Scotland could see the clear benefits of membership, and for Scotland separation might have jeopardised this.

But now, post Brexit, put yourself in the majority shoes of a non-Protestant remainer Ulsterman, or a non-Tory remainer Scot. Why would you not want independence? Even as a non-Tory Scottish leaver, faced with the prospect of potentially 6 more years being controlled by a government for which you have only contempt, I think you’d probably vote for independence. Polling in Ulster has likewise shown that younger voters, including a majority of young Protestants, now favour union with Ireland. All presumably triggered by Brexit.

To my mind the break-up of the UK is inevitable.
 
Having hosted many older French language Students, I'd say most Brits that don't like the French is because they're exactly like us.

We all worry about the same things, worrying about caring for and feeding our families, worry about the future. We also share the traits of Imperialist history, being dismissive of anything other than their own opinion, egotistical, insist the world speaks their language and love to feel hard done by.

Edited to add, the elder Bretons that regularly stayed with us also had little respect for the Germans.

It's brilliant.
Have to disagree here Guiri. Through Chudleigh twinning I too have hosted and and been hosted by many french families. I agree they are very like us, and when you get to know them and their language, the similarities make it hard to understand why many do indeed dislike the french. I’ve yet to meet a single french person who insist the world speaks their language (although you’re right, many of us do), and in fact over the years I have found them extremely patient when I struggle to find the right phrase.

I have several Francophobe acquaintances, all elderly, all Daily Mail and Express readers who have never visited France or taken much interest in anything outside these shores, and I’m sure there are plenty more like them who form their views by ‘Up yours Delors’ style headlines. Hopefully a dying breed.
 
Nov 15, 2011
1,848
222
And here's me thinking it's 2021 and not 1821!

Actually I haven't got any friends or family who "don't like the French" but there you go. And having spent a lot of time in France including studying there I never met a French person who didn't like the Brits, yes they like you to respect their language when in their country but I agree they are very like us and generally do like us.

I think it's rather people being told by the right wing press that the French don't like us, concocting an enemy in Europe in order to distract us from the damage of Brexit, that the billionaire tax dodging newspaper owners have largely brought about.