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After Brexit

Willis88

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Jan 17, 2017
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Every day I believe that Johnson has surely reached breaking point with the electorate’s gullibility, and I’m constantly proved wrong. Today he achieved applause and plaudits from the Tory faithful as he outlined why the lack of staff in key sectors is all the fault of industry itself, and by implication nothing to do with any lack of post-Brexit planning. Can anyone remember during the ‘get Brexit done’ election a single mention of the need for industry and services to improve their training, increase investment levels and raise wages in anticipation of the need to replace skilled EU workers in so many sectors?

So, having laid the blame squarely at the feet of industry itself, he will obviously continue to blame companies and organisations for the consequences for care homes, agriculture, fishing and services when shortages and company failures occur. It’s all down to you lot. We all want to see higher wages and greater investment in our companies and institutions, but I don’t remember him saying at the last election ‘we’re going to make all this happen by deliberately starving companies of key staff and force you to replace them by paying higher wages to new employees requiring fresh training, or not replace them by improving automation, and you’ve got 12 months to do it’. Yet he now presents this as a deliberate, planned strategy!
He pulled the pin, lugged the grenade into the room and locked the door and is now blaming everyone else for the fact the grenade exploded.

He is single-handedly responsible for this mess and he's blaming others.

How long before Brexit happened did we know what the immigration plans were? What the visa and travel restrictions were?

How many weeks were available to inject YEARS of training into unavailable people to fill the skills shortage?

Industries were crying out for information about visa, recruitment and training for years and were always fobbed off by the government.

This has become a complete cluster mess and Boris is the face of the campaign.
 
Nov 15, 2011
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And the irony of him demanding higher wages from businesses where he has no power whilst simultaneously cutting nurses pay in real terms, shouldn’t their “employer” pay higher wages or don’t they have the same value as a lorry driver?

And the lie about uncontrolled immigration suppressing wages, it’s less than 1% according to the Bank of England. And don’t mention the record ever non Eu immigration last year, all controllable, more than 300,000 , more than the population of Plymouth.
 

Pogleswoody

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I mean: Starmer Chameleon? I know very little shame when it comes to puns and jokes but 'Starmer Chameleon?? Boris for shame!!
 
Apr 15, 2004
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If we didn't know better we might think he and the Brexit 'Spartans' didn't have a friggin' clue what would happen and just spouted delusional, meaningless, jingoistic slogans. But don't worry - it was all part of a grand master plan to force businesses to instantly train the domestic work force AND foot the bill AND hike pay, all without increasing prices.

Then again this is the man who famously said - "F*CK Business!". At least he's keeping his word about something.
 
Apr 15, 2004
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Pah! Seems those whinging business leaders REALLY didn't like his speech. "Economically illiterate" and "bombastic and vacuous" ..... and that's from that well known bunch of pinko lefties in the free market Adam Smith Institute. 🤣. Honestly, you couldn't make it up - they would have been kinder to Jeremy Corbyn.
 
Nov 15, 2011
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They are simply not the Conservative party. They don’t believe in anything traditional conservatives believe in . They are the Cult Brexit Party who devise policy by thinking what would Donald Trump do?

They F business
They Interfere in the free market
They attack freedom of speech and protest
They break and disregard the Law, close down Courts and attack judges

There are no Conservatives in the cabinet and v few MPs. A close friend of Johnson once said the only 2 things he is passionate about is being king of the world and getting his leg over.

They won’t change course cos that would be to admit the Brexit lie, they’ll never do that, even when Tory business owners shout fire. I really don’t know how this will end but it’s going to be very ugly.
 
Jan 20, 2004
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You have to admire the balls and gall to suddenly claim this was part of the Brexit plan all along. Jonhson is a master at winging it.

But despite the positive jingoistic bon homie emanating from within his conference hall today, and even from some of the gullible punters in the street, you sense the wheels on his wagon are starting to wobble. He only has three months to pull a rabbit out of a hat before a possible shortage of food on the shelves at Christmas may well signify a turn of a tide against him, that may well snowball in the following months by his ludicrous inflationary strategy.

It will be interesting to see how he waffles his way out of this looming crisis, and even more interesting to see how his loyal followers put a spin on it.
 
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Frank Butcher

Foodbank Donor
Oct 9, 2003
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Gairloch
Pah! Seems those whinging business leaders REALLY didn't like his speech. "Economically illiterate" and "bombastic and vacuous" ..... and that's from that well known bunch of pinko lefties in the free market Adam Smith Institute. 🤣. Honestly, you couldn't make it up - they would have been kinder to Jeremy Corbyn.

Yes, but if we’re quoting commentary then we should be balanced and CBI chief Tony Danker said he saw it as a compelling vision for a high wage economy but one that needed to be backed up by investment. He highlighted the clear risks should that not happen, e.g. higher prices.

I should say I‘ve had the privilege to be in an audience/ Q&A with him and my impression was of a very considerate, bright and thoughtful business leader.

For me, it was just typical Johnson. Blue sky thinking without much, if any substance. You can’t just wish for these things to happen so we will see what the next 2 years bring ahead of the election.
 
Nov 15, 2011
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Daily Mail today "Intel has ruled out putting a huge new computer chip plant in Britain because of Brexit, it was revealed today. The head of the US firm, Pat Gelsinger, said it would have considered the UK but was now looking at 'getting support from the EU' for sites."

This is a multi billion project, the problem cited was supply chains ie not being in the single market.

I'm not sure businesses have 2 years to wait and see if the sunlit uplands will appear, they may not be around by then particularly as Johnson gave not one clue as to how they get there, though he was fact checked for telling 8 porkies. Not too bad for him to be fair. Sad though, if only the Tories had been in power for the last 11 years just think how levelled up the country would be by now.
 
Apr 15, 2004
2,882
144
East Devon
Yes, but if we’re quoting commentary then we should be balanced and CBI chief Tony Danker said he saw it as a compelling vision for a high wage economy but one that needed to be backed up by investment. He highlighted the clear risks should that not happen, e.g. higher prices.

I should say I‘ve had the privilege to be in an audience/ Q&A with him and my impression was of a very considerate, bright and thoughtful business leader.

For me, it was just typical Johnson. Blue sky thinking without much, if any substance. You can’t just wish for these things to happen so we will see what the next 2 years bring ahead of the election.
Yes Danker seems to be trying to build some bridges between the CBI and the government so it’s not surprising he is using much more diplomatic language than the Adam Smith institute (and many others) because the hard Brexit nutters haven’t forgiven the CBI for their anti-Brexit stance. So when he says he sees a “compelling vision for a high wage economy” - well who doesn’t ? The second part of his quote is the key bit though “but needs to be backed up by investment”.

Last month he gave a speech (well worth a read of the link below) - that was somewhat less diplomatic saying that business needed “plans not platitudes” from the government and added quite pointedly that …..our fear is that as things stand, Global Britain is on track to be Grow Slower Britain.

He went on to list a number of major future growth areas (like Electric vehicles, Genomics, Green energy) where we are well behind the investment that the US, EU, Japan etc. are making. He also criticised the training policies of the government saying it is “full of perverse incentives” and calls for a radical shake up. Yet the government now seem keen to be blaming business for the lack of skilled workers by relying on cheap foreign labour.

https://www.cbi.org.uk/articles/government-must-make-big-choices-or-the-uk-will-lag-behind/
 

Frank Butcher

Foodbank Donor
Oct 9, 2003
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Gairloch
Yup, as I say I’ve been privy to his perspectives first hand. I think he’s good.

But in this case you were referring to commentary on Johnson’s speech so I felt it right to offer the CBI’s specific response (and did include the provisos you’ve again quoted).

👍
 
Nov 15, 2011
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"The past was alterable. The past never had been altered. Oceania was at war with Eastasia. Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia." — George Orwell, "1984"
I was thinking that very same thing the other day, the Ministry of Truth's switch from Brexit only had upsides to move seamlessly into the chaos was always part of the plan and an opportunity. We're very close to people ignoring the evidence of their own ears and eyes, they've seen Trump do it so why not?

I watched the John Hurt film recently and there were quite a few OMG moments , this is actually happening, particularly in relation to the right wing Press. The Express is pretending they didn't say the lies on the front page only a few weeks or months ago, yesterday they worshipped the man who hid in a fridge as "Iron Man" taking us to sunlit uplands as if every person's actual daily experience isn't happening. The morning 30 minute hate doesn't happen in a cinema but at the breakfast table as people read the Mail or Express. It's all a bit frightening.
 
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Argylegames

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Tony Danker said he saw it as a compelling vision for a high wage economy but one that needed to be backed up by investment.
The implication from that is government investment. He should take a leaf out of Richard Branson's book: "Train People well enough so they can leave, But treat them well enough so they don't want to" If the CBI want investment then they need to persuade their members to make it.
 
Nov 15, 2011
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The implication from that is government investment. He should take a leaf out of Richard Branson's book: "Train People well enough so they can leave, But treat them well enough so they don't want to" If the CBI want investment then they need to persuade their members to make it.
This is true but what businesses can afford to invest with spiraling wages and inflation on raw products and energy costs going up 40% ? Plus Corporation Tax rates going up from 19% to 25% in 2023. You would have to have pretty large profit margins to absorb all that and invest, certainly not an option for most smaller businesses.