Normally I’d agree with you Ave_IT, but the negativity never stops - on any subject, not just Brexit. It’s why I chose to Ignore, you can’t debate with someone so polarised because they can’t accept they can be wrong or even see a different point of view. You and I may differ at times, as with Quinny, Micky and others but each of us - I think - have the capacity to see the other point of view - and maybe even change our minds on occasion. In this case it’s pointless.Sorry Frank but I really don’t think it is a valid question. I find it quite insulting to be asked why I’m still living in my own country, my own home , the place where my family, my wife and my kids, even my bloody dog live and where they belong etc. Simply because I dare criticise the government and say that (in my opinion) Brexit was a massive act of national self-harm? It is the question of last resort. The one thrown back when the points and criticisms people like me make can’t be answered. Dare I say it but it also has a nasty whiff of the “why don’t you people go back home then?” when anyone with foreign heritage appears to criticise the UK.
As for GG’s long post above – then apart from his attempt at defending that question – then I actually have to accept much of the rest of what he says. Remainers did mount a pretty woeful campaign in 2016 by continually pointing out the negatives and problems that leaving the EU would cause. We rarely put forward the positives or spoke of the ‘vision thing’ of European unity etc…… I was as guilty as anyone and sure if you trawled posts from those times I would have been one of the worst culprits. It was such an easy target, it was so easy to point to all the mountain of evidence of disadvantages if we left the EU. But we blew it. Many people switched off and we seemed to be just defending the status quo and trying to scare people who had genuine fears and problems with that status quo and they wanted to shake things up.
Anyway, water under the bridge now and GG’s right in that it is time for Remoaners like me to move on. Maybe most of us remoaners and leavers can find some common ground though?
The thing is that Brexit had no defined meaning - there was a smorgasbord of possible Brexits to choose from. Fancy a Canadian version, or Norweigan model, or Swiss model ? Hard or soft Brexit? Join EFTA? Do you want in-or-out the Custom’s union and/or in-or-out the single market? The point I’m trying to make is the Brexit we have doesn’t have to be like this. This is the Boris Brexit that helped get his egotistical a’rse in Downing street with little or no thought into the long term consequences or how it would actually work. Theresa May said no PM would ever countenance a border down the Irish Sea but agreed the land border in Ireland should be virtually ‘frictionless’ to preserve the GF agreement. By definition then that meant she wanted a close alignment with the EU – but this outraged the Brexit ‘spartans’ who then repeatedly scuppered her deal. Boris saw his chance, ripped up that agreement to “get Brexit done” and signed up to a hasty treaty he seems not to have understood or willfully had no intention of keeping….. and now its unravelling. The Irish problem is still simmering and looks like coming to the boil again very soon, and support for Scottish independence is at a record high. Anyone notice Theresa May’s intervention this week saying the Boris’s Brexit deal threatens the break up of the union?
But there are other options …. Wouldn’t it make sense to stay close to the EU at least to begin with, so the borders will be more-or-less open and we wouldn’t have all the issues we are seeing now? I’m sure the EU would jump at it. OK – I know the Brexit Spartans would hate it and we would have to follow rules we’re not actually making …….but surely we can then have an ongoing negotiation and begin to diverge in certain areas over time and we can pick and choose our battles when it suits us for the sectors that suit us? Maybe it would give us time to get our s**t together and embark on a massive skills programme to get people trained in the areas we currently rely on EU labour for? I’m thinking out loud here and not sure of the legalities - but could we charge a small levy on employers who hire EU workers to fund the training and so also nudge them to find British workers if they can? I don’t have answers – but it needn’t be like this.
It genuinely makes me wonder why someone would want to endure such a terrible existence if they have the means to escape it. Hence the question. Hey ho …
On Brexit you have some good suggestions there.