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After Brexit

Ottawa Green

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A friend of mine has asked how are things in the UK, is life better, is it poorer, what noticeable changes are happening since Brexit occured. Anything that i can passon would be appreciated.
 
Nov 15, 2011
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Well besides the empty shelves, shortages of care workers, nurses, lorry drivers and in hospitality, sky rocketing food and energy prices, riots in N Ireland, queues at customs, companies going bust cos they can no longer afford to export to Europe, people restricted to 3 months they can spend in their European properties it’s going swimmingly.

We have our bluish passports made in Poland which give us less freedom than the red ones, can buy fruit and veg in pounds and ounces, except there’s not much fruit and veg to buy, and have a crown printed on our pint glasses. Just waiting for the beer to turn up.
 
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GreenThing

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Sep 13, 2003
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Gas prices have nothing to do with brexit.

The labour shortage has hit the industries that rely on exploiting low wages, so while there is a short term problem, long term the industries will be forced into paying a decent wage instead of exploiting cheap labour. That has to be better in the long term.
 

Willis88

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Labour shortage is a direct result of Brexit though.

Most low paid, low and medium skilled jobs were filled by EU workers who now dont qualify to work in the UK.

As such farmers are disposing of perfectly good food as no-one will pick it, care homes are understaffed, there's a lorry driver shortage so when food is produced it can't get to shops and all in all the average consumer is facing price rises, food shortages and their jobs at risk.

But yeah, we've taken back control...

And to say businesses should pay better, whilst I agree everyone should earn a fair wage for their work, it's a trickle down effect.

If someone gets paid more the product / service price is increased and thus the end user pays more, this drives up inflation that in turn requires higher wages.

In the meantime we've seen families on benefits having cuts, pensions not rising and working people being taxed more.
 

Argylegames

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We escaped being part of the EU debacle over ordering vaccines and Joe and Boris have successfully Peed off the French over Australian submarines. (The latter isn't a Brexit effect but is a good bonus)
 
Nov 15, 2011
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Many European countries have overtaken the U.K. in the vaccine rollout and the U.K. have more daily new cases than any other country in Europe.

And to think peeing off our nearest neighbours who provide much of our energy and food is a good thing, if that’s the best you’ve got well it ain’t much.
 
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Nov 15, 2011
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Gas prices have nothing to do with brexit.

The labour shortage has hit the industries that rely on exploiting low wages, so while there is a short term problem, long term the industries will be forced into paying a decent wage instead of exploiting cheap labour. That has to be better in the long term.
Global energy prices have nothing to do with Brexit, but the UK now having the highest energy prices in Europe - which we didn't previously - does. The EU Internal Energy Market means they can absorb the price shocks whereas the UK now on its own has 70 providers, many chancers trying to make a quick buck and going bust, and the taxpayer will pick up the £1 billion bill to bail them out.

As noted paying "decent wages" means huge costs to businesses which they will pass on in price rises, now happening, and as inflation rises workers need more wages to keep up with prices. Wages, prices spiral resulting in economic disaster including substantial interest rate rises, people could have their mortgage payments doubled overnight.

And the elephant in the room is that Brexit is only half done. On the other side it was done from day 1 with full checks in Calais and other ports which have resulted in a 17% drop in exports to the EU costing billions and putting many businesses, particularly in fishing and farming out of business.

Brexit on our side had a 6 month delay which was further postponed to 1 October and now to 1 January 2022. Why? Because the Government knows the huge impact on the economy in delays in imports and red tape costs that will push up prices further.

Some say well why have the checks? Well that was the deal that was what we voted for, that's the benefits of the club but you don't get them unless you're in the club. Which you can have by the way have without being in the EU, see Norway Switzerland etc in EFTA, but this Government only wanted total isolationism.

And don't forget the massive competitive advantage we have handed EU businesses on a plate. While a farmer in France can export to the UK with no checks or delays, the UK farmer has massive barriers exporting to the EU. It really is a win win for our EU cousins.
 
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Oct 9, 2003
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Aberdeen
I suspect there will be the usual ‘I hate my country‘ BS on here from one or two - thankfully the Ignore option is working for me. It’s also almost impossible to make this comparison by not conflating economic impacts of a pandemic. In many cases it will be difficult to know the root causes - more likely a combination (it is particularly unhelpful though to roll tax rises etc. into the Brexit argument IMO).

So taking an objective view. There are two major impacts I see - there is definitely a skills shortage in some areas - and not exclusively low paid jobs. But is this Brexit or is it also companies/orgs dialling back during the pandemic and finding it hard to recover? As I say probably a combo. Secondly, there are shortages of certain items. I have seen gaps on shelves but not empty shelves as some would claim. This is in part due to a knock on shortage of lorry drivers but also likely supplier related as well.

Conversely, I know many people who have taken the opportunity to look to buy more locally. If sustained that would have a positive effect on UK producers (though offset by impacts on exports for example). Any ‘buy local’ approach is also long term good for the environment of course.

In truth though it would be a stretch to say there are clear benefits at this early stage.

Speaking from purely personal experience - and others will have their own - Brexit may as well not have happened. I had one delayed shipment from the EU in the early days and that’s about it. I’m talking about my place as a consumer here. As I say others may see differently but I have never had a relation, friend or neighbour say ‘Ever since that bl@@dy Brexit ….’. Everyone I know seems unaffected, or at least unbothered (as consumers I hasten to reiterate).

Would be interested to hear from Ave_IT and Greenrod on this though. From a business perspective I recall the former was fearful in terms of supplies and trade, while the latter was more optmistic about new opportunities. Would be interesting to know if those views have changed at all.
 
Nov 15, 2011
1,706
129
I suspect there will be the usual ‘I hate my country‘ BS on here from one or two - thankfully the Ignore option is working for me. It’s also almost impossible to make this comparison by not conflating economic impacts of a pandemic. In many cases it will be difficult to know the root causes - more likely a combination (it is particularly unhelpful though to roll tax rises etc. into the Brexit argument IMO).

So taking an objective view. There are two major impacts I see - there is definitely a skills shortage in some areas - and not exclusively low paid jobs. But is this Brexit or is it also companies/orgs dialling back during the pandemic and finding it hard to recover? As I say probably a combo. Secondly, there are shortages of certain items. I have seen gaps on shelves but not empty shelves as some would claim. This is in part due to a knock on shortage of lorry drivers but also likely supplier related as well.

Conversely, I know many people who have taken the opportunity to look to buy more locally. If sustained that would have a positive effect on UK producers (though offset by impacts on exports for example). Any ‘buy local’ approach is also long term good for the environment of course.

In truth though it would be a stretch to say there are clear benefits at this early stage.

Speaking from purely personal experience - and others will have their own - Brexit may as well not have happened. I had one delayed shipment from the EU in the early days and that’s about it. I’m talking about my place as a consumer here. As I say others may see differently but I have never had a relation, friend or neighbour say ‘Ever since that bl@@dy Brexit ….’. Everyone I know seems unaffected, or at least unbothered (as consumers I hasten to reiterate).

Would be interested to hear from Ave_IT and Greenrod on this though. From a business perspective I recall the former was fearful in terms of supplies and trade, while the latter was more optmistic about new opportunities. Would be interesting to know if those views have changed at all.
The accusation that you hate your country because you didn’t want British people to lose their freedoms and endure massive economic harm which makes them poorer is, well, Brexit.

And again saying that I’m ok Jack whilst trying to pretend objective reality isn’t happening that you can see every day on the news and in every newspaper. That’s Brexit.

The best that can be offered is “Brexit may as well have not happened.’ Not exactly sunlit uplands.
 
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When Mao Zedong was asked what he thought about Christianity, he said it was too early to say. I think the economic effects of Brexit are the same. It’s almost impossible to differentiate between. Brexit and covid consequences. However the political consequences are clearer. With the majority of Scottish and Ulster voters being remainers, it has probably given the SNP the surge it will need to get over the line in their next referendum. Much further on I think it increases the likelihood of a united Ireland, which was probably going to happen anyway because of changing catholic/Protestant demographics, but will make this happen sooner.
 

Emu

Oct 3, 2003
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Many European countries have overtaken the U.K. in the vaccine rollout and the U.K. have more daily new cases than any other country in Europe.

And to think peeing off our nearest neighbours who provide much of our energy and food is a good thing, if that’s the best you’ve got well it ain’t much.
It's easy to make statistics to benefit your way of thinking in an argument

UK tests more vigorously for covid than many of our European neighbours, and as such, more cases are always likely to be found. Then you also have to make a choice on whether you believe the figures released by each country...
 
Nov 15, 2011
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It's easy to make statistics to benefit your way of thinking in an argument

UK tests more vigorously for covid than many of our European neighbours, and as such, more cases are always likely to be found. Then you also have to make a choice on whether you believe the figures released by each country...
I'm not making statistics benefit anybodys way of thinking. I'm just reporting the figures from worldometer which I think everybody uses. As for the I dont believe foreigners argument yeah we've had that one already.

On the argument whether it's too early to judge, I've just heard that petrol may have to be rationed soon due to the HGV driver shortage. And Tesco warned yesterday "Our concern is that the empty shelves will get 10 times worse by Christmas and then we'll get panic buying". This isn't happening in Europe.
 

Mark Pedlar

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Jul 28, 2010
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...and if you're sending any goods to Northern Ireland you will face the same barriers and red tape that you face sending to any part of the EU, not of course that under any circumstances will there be a border in the North Sea.
 
Nov 15, 2011
1,706
129
Johnson said "There will be no border down the Irish Sea - over my dead body." When he knew there would be one.

And again - "Boris Johnson has told Northern Ireland businesses they can put customs declarations forms “in the bin” because there will be “no barriers of any kind” to trade crossing the Irish Sea."

He was up to his old tricks yesterday when he denied saying we would get a fantastic trade deal with the US. He said it was Trump who said this and he had said "nothing of the kind". There's 3 separate videos doing the rounds where he actually says we are going to get a fantastic trade deal with the US.

Still he came out with a cracking gag in his speech to the UN yesterday about kermit saying its hard to be green. But no one laughed. As my youngest daughter said to me, it's just embarrassing to be British.
 
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