20 years since Cloughie's passing | Page 2 | PASOTI
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20 years since Cloughie's passing

Apr 16, 2016
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He died when I was 7 - 1955. The Clough encounter was October 1960. My mother died in late 1991.
Aaah I understand. I can see why you are not his biggest fan. The guy sure was a stickler for certain things.
It has its benefits, but the intransigence can also produce experiences like yours.
Here's an extract from another Guardian article which is probably fairly accurate ( can't believe I'm using 'accurate' and 'Guardian' in the same sentence:) ):

"With Clough, everyone who has encountered him tends to have a story and, if they are told accurately, it is almost always with him disarming whoever else was involved, whether it be with charm or one of those devastating one-liners. Sir Alex Ferguson once described him as “the rudest man in football” (admittedly, a bit like Billy Connolly complaining that someone swears too much). The Manchester United manager once tried the same trick as Clough with West Ham and turned up at the City Ground trying to sign Stuart Pearce. Clough drew the curtains, put his feet on the desk and sent a message that he was watching the cricket. "

"Steve Bruce can testify to that, bearing in mind the story he tells of standing in a public lavatory, zip down, at one function, then becoming aware of a presence behind him, and suddenly taking a whack that knocked him into the urinal. The voice behind him was familiar: “Young man, that’s for kicking my Nigel as many times as you did. Now carry on …”

For all his ' front' he was no doubt a partly tortured soul himself, evidenced by his descent into alcoholism. Hopefully you can forgive the 'old big 'ead'.
 

memory man

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Nov 28, 2011
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Aaah I understand. I can see why you are not his biggest fan. The guy sure was a stickler for certain things.
It has its benefits, but the intransigence can also produce experiences like yours.
Here's an extract from another Guardian article which is probably fairly accurate ( can't believe I'm using 'accurate' and 'Guardian' in the same sentence:) ):

"With Clough, everyone who has encountered him tends to have a story and, if they are told accurately, it is almost always with him disarming whoever else was involved, whether it be with charm or one of those devastating one-liners. Sir Alex Ferguson once described him as “the rudest man in football” (admittedly, a bit like Billy Connolly complaining that someone swears too much). The Manchester United manager once tried the same trick as Clough with West Ham and turned up at the City Ground trying to sign Stuart Pearce. Clough drew the curtains, put his feet on the desk and sent a message that he was watching the cricket. "

"Steve Bruce can testify to that, bearing in mind the story he tells of standing in a public lavatory, zip down, at one function, then becoming aware of a presence behind him, and suddenly taking a whack that knocked him into the urinal. The voice behind him was familiar: “Young man, that’s for kicking my Nigel as many times as you did. Now carry on …”

For all his ' front' he was no doubt a partly tortured soul himself, evidenced by his descent into alcoholism. Hopefully you can forgive the 'old big 'ead'.
Thank you for that. Most interesting. He was a fine young player. I was fortunate enough to see him twice at HP. for Boro. and once for Sunderland. Each time he saw very little of the ball but scored four times goals in the three games. Early on in the 1959-60 season he was struggling for goals. Argyle visited Ayresome Park and Clough opened his account for the season with four goals.
 
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Cocky as he was, I heard him tell a funny story where he was the butt. Receiving a visitor at Forrest he rang down to the apprentices room and asked for two cups of tea to be brought up. The apprentice who answered said ‘No, you can f*** off’. ‘Young man’ he said, ‘do you know who I am?’. ‘Yes’ said the apprentice, ‘and do you know who I am?’ ‘No’ said Clough. ‘Well thank f*** for that’ said the apprentice, and put the phone down.
 
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Jon with no H

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Apr 6, 2023
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Aaah I understand. I can see why you are not his biggest fan. The guy sure was a stickler for certain things.
It has its benefits, but the intransigence can also produce experiences like yours.
Here's an extract from another Guardian article which is probably fairly accurate ( can't believe I'm using 'accurate' and 'Guardian' in the same sentence:) ):

"With Clough, everyone who has encountered him tends to have a story and, if they are told accurately, it is almost always with him disarming whoever else was involved, whether it be with charm or one of those devastating one-liners. Sir Alex Ferguson once described him as “the rudest man in football” (admittedly, a bit like Billy Connolly complaining that someone swears too much). The Manchester United manager once tried the same trick as Clough with West Ham and turned up at the City Ground trying to sign Stuart Pearce. Clough drew the curtains, put his feet on the desk and sent a message that he was watching the cricket. "

"Steve Bruce can testify to that, bearing in mind the story he tells of standing in a public lavatory, zip down, at one function, then becoming aware of a presence behind him, and suddenly taking a whack that knocked him into the urinal. The voice behind him was familiar: “Young man, that’s for kicking my Nigel as many times as you did. Now carry on …”

For all his ' front' he was no doubt a partly tortured soul himself, evidenced by his descent into alcoholism. Hopefully you can forgive the 'old big 'ead'.
I don't even like Nigel Clough that much because of the autograph story, having had a lifetime to consider my position.
 
I first came across him, one to one, in October1960 in the old Co-op shop on Royal Parade. They had a sports shop on the lower ground floor and Clough appeared there on the morning of a match against Argyle. Players were still only allowed to earn a maximum of ÂŁ20 per week so they augmented their income with advertising and personal appearances. There was a stage set up at one end and Clough was flanked by a player called Ray Yeoman and a former Argyle player, Ronnie Waldock. The event had attracted a lot of lads with autograph books, me included.

We all patiently queued as Clough and company took their places. One by one we filed forward to get our books signed. I had worked hard the previous evening and on the left side of a double foolscap page I had pictures of various Boro players, the biggest being one of Clough. On the right hand page I had drawn a grid in the 2-3-5 formation. I (politely) asked him to sign the picture "Best wishes" and over the number 9 on the grid. The response was a curt "One and one only sonny". I opted for the grid. I returned to the back of the queue and as I presented my book I got the same response - "I told you one and one only".

Me and another lad, I think he was called Skinner and he lived in Wake Street near the sorting office, swapped books. It was to no avail as he got a blast from Clough too. I left the Co-op and went to the ground. As he got off the coach I was there again but nothing doing. He looked at the book, looked at me and put the pen back on the book. After the game I go to the Grand Hotel. Even though they had flown down, Middlesbrough needed a two night stay. I can only assume that our airport was not capable of supporting night landing and take-off.

After what seemed an eternity, Clough emerged with a number of other players. They turned immediately right, through the pillars and to the Hoe, then left towards Smeaton's Tower, headed for the Barbican. He was walking with Kenneth Thomson, their centre half (who would later go to jail for his part in the match-fixing scandal orchestrated by our former player Jimmy Gauld). I asked Clough again to sign the picture but he just kept saying the same 'one and one only' line. The goalkeeper (Appelby?) was in a group close by and I heard him say "Come on Brian, just sign the lad's book." But Clough was having none of it.

Suddenly he stopped and, in that uncompromising way he had, said "Did your father not teach you any manners son?" I thought quickly and responded: "He died when I was seven, Mr Clough. So I cannot really remember much about him." That was quite deliberate from me. I thought that I had delivered the metaphorical arrow through the heart and that even this horrible man would relent - but he didn't. And his response - "Well that will account for your behaviour then." I honestly don't remember being rude. Determined, persistent, perhaps to the point of annoyance, but I was never rude or impolite.

So years later when Clough was presenting Trevor Francis with an award, live on TV, I was not at all surprised when he ridiculed Francis about having his hands in his pockets. I wasn't at all surprised when he interjected from the audience when Parkinson was interviewing Muhamad Ali, thinking he could verbally grapple with one of the fastest wits on the planet. When he mounted the live-on-TV attack on Alf Ramsey for sitting with the England doctor I was not surprised.

Fast forward 31 years from that night on Plymouth Hoe and I am back in Plymouth visiting my mother, who was terminally ill and had been given ten days to live. We talked about all manner of things in the week we spent together. After she was widowed she had developed a real fear of anyone being critical of my behaviour. She did not want anyone thinking that being without a father was a cause of poor behaviour on my part. And all those years later, with a few days of her life left, she recalled the incident with, in her words, "that beastly man Clough". She recalled how down she felt, five years on from my Dad's death, that someone should link the two events.

So MickyD, I am firmly in your camp. Your "Awful human being" sums him up for me. I was astounded how long my Mum had carried that event with her. I didn't like what happened at the time, but that was nothing to the anger I felt that night in Derriford 31 years later, that she had been horrified that I may have let her down in public.
What a story! Tx for sharing.
 
I only really remember the tail end of his managerial career - the 'Gazza' Cup Final against Tottenham when he bizarrely held hands with Terry Venables, and then the sad relegation in his last year when the drink had really taken its toll. My impression of him is that everyone liked Forest because of what they once were - a medium-sized provincial club with polite young men who conquered the world against all odds by playing the right way.

He had a swansong as an acerbic pundit in the print media - I remember him being very critical of Arsenal's disciplinary record in the early Wenger era. His autobiography is a good read, and the journalist Jonathan Wilson has written an excellent biography of him which I'd recommend to anyone.

It's worth remembering too what an incredible scoring record he had for Middlesbrough and Sunderland. It would have been fascinating to see what he could have achieved in another era where players could move between clubs more easily.