Enough already? | PASOTI
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Enough already?

Apr 15, 2004
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I can’t remember the last time I was looking forward to a new season as much as this one. I was delighted we got RL after all that waiting – and the signings all seem to be excellent (especially Danny Mayor which surprised us all)……….. BUT.

I do feel uncomfortable with the whole Bury thing – I just can’t help but feel it’s rather like going through a dying man’s pockets. Don’t get me wrong – I’m not saying we shouldn’t. I know full well it’s not our fault and taking some imaginary moral high ground would be ludicrous …….and the people involved all deserve to move on and certainly have no blame either – they went above and beyond during their time at Bury.

But there are other concerns that make me wonder if it’s enough now already. We’ve got the Manager, assistant, analyst and three players but we’re rumoured to be chasing another three. I don’t think it’s without its potential downside however thoroughly decent and professional the ex-Bury contingent is. What concerns me is that it will be difficult for them not to be seen as a mini clique within the club. Another two or three and half the team will be ex-Bury and it would be natural for them to stick together at the club and maybe socially – which may not be good for creating a fully bonded squad. For example if (say) Ryan Taylor is thoroughly pee’d off with the manager one day or thinks the training regime is stupid or unfair then will he feel like he can have a good old moan about them to team mates if he’s stood next to Mayor, Telford or Aimson? Will they feel like they can defend RL if he does have a moan – or feel like they are being ‘got at’ too?

There’s also the danger of imagined favouritism towards them – actually as RL and his team knows them much better it might not be entirely imagined - there could well be a subconscious bias towards them. I’m not saying it WILL be a problem – but the potential is surely there for resentments. If we’re winning then everyone is happy and it won’t be a problem at all ……but these things can rear their head when times are difficult and people are looking for something to blame.

Three is enough….. isn’t it?...or am I over-thinking it and worrying unnecessarily?
 
Jul 30, 2015
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I tend to agree to be honest, but got to trust the guy to do what's best. Hopefully there are other irons in the fire and it won't just be becoming Bury mk 2!
 

Biggs

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Wouldn't go as far as all that, but I'd like us to cast our net a bit wider. Delighted with Mayor, Aimson and Telford but if we're going for Bury bit-part players as well then that seems a bit much.

I can't help but think Ian Roscrow would have been a useful person to have around, at least.
 

IJN

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Nov 29, 2012
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Yep, that feeling is now growing within me.

I hope we cherry pick rather than transplant, if that makes sense.

If I were a Bury fan, I’d be starting to hate PAFC about now.
 

The Doctor

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I think you make a good point. I have been having exactly the same thoughts. There's a danger that we have a club within a club. Of course, there isn't necessarily a problem here, but there certainly could be - particularly if things don't start well.
Fingers crossed.
 
Jul 29, 2010
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A mini-clique of players and staff who turned round a relegated side in one season putting the noses out of joint of players who individually to a greater or lesser degree threw the towel in and got us relegated?

I can live with that hypothetical possibility, the more the merrier.

Those hypothetically disgruntled existing players have two choices, get with the programme or sulk and put in a transfer request. Again I can live with that.

The club is bigger than any player, the more players that are winners the better and RL plays to win with a winning mentality. We need winners, not sulkers, sulkers got us relegated. I'd bring down every man Jack of 'em if that's what is required.
 
Mar 15, 2007
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Yup. I mentioned it the other day. If you’re going to make the call to get rid of the recruitment guy because of your “great contacts in the game”, you can’t just be signing the lads who played for you last season.

Mayor and Aimson I have no qualms about as they are top players for L2, Telford appears to have a bright future so that’s fine too. But when we’re getting linked to Byron Moore, who was a bit part player for Bury last season it does start to raise eyebrows.

Not to mention we need to hire a scout of some form, as we currently have none. For all the criticism of Adams “not watching his signings play before signing them”, who the hell is gonna be watching any of ours? Its not a sustainable infrastructure to work with.

That being said, I’m still very excited for the new season.
 

The Doctor

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X Isle":2dnputh2 said:
A mini-clique of players and staff who turned round a relegated side in one season putting the noses out of joint of players who individually to a greater or lesser degree threw the towel in and got us relegated?

I can live with that hypothetical possibility, the more the merrier.

Those hypothetically disgruntled existing players have two choices, get with the programme or sulk and put in a transfer request. Again I can live with that.

The club is bigger than any player, the more players that are winners the better. We need winners, not sulkers, sulkers got us relegated.


I don't care about the individual players, but I will care if a clique forms that damages the club's overall performance. But so far the RL transition seems to be going smoothly with a whole bunch of good things being said and done. The really interesting part is going to be when the rubber meets the road and the competitive games start of course.
 

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It's more a philosophical point than a practical one for me, I want us to be really casting our net wide and getting the best possible players we can. At the moment we clearly either have tunnel vision for Bury players OR more concerning that the Bury ones are the only players of that standard that want to come (because of the manager).

I assume it's the former, which is understandable given it's Lowe's first job away from 'home' and he wants familiar faces, but surely we need to mix it up at some point.

And of course the moral point, we can't completely raid Bury like a vulture.
 

Cobi Budge

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I don't see the problem personally.

The truth is the majority of Bury players would be leaving anyway, so why does it matter if they come to us or go elsewhere? We've also put a fair bit of money into Bury with the compensation for Lowe and the fee for Telford. Ryan Lowe knows they're good footballers & is therefore bringing them in. Also, I think it says a lot for Ryan Lowe's man management that he commands the loyalty of former players so much they choose to go to the other side of the country to play for him when other offers closer to home have surely been on the table.
 
Jun 4, 2015
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This thread struck a chord with me too. As I posted elsewhere, any more signings of ex-Bury players and we may as well play in blue. :think:
 
Jul 29, 2010
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Biggs":2s8q4fsn said:
It's more a philosophical point than a practical one for me, I want us to be really casting our net wide and getting the best possible players we can. At the moment we clearly either have tunnel vision for Bury players OR more concerning that the Bury ones are the only players of that standard that want to come (because of the manager).

I assume it's the former, which is understandable given it's Lowe's first job away from 'home' and he wants familiar faces, but surely we need to mix it up at some point.

And of course the moral point, we can't completely raid Bury like a vulture.
Yes we can. If the player adds to the mix then the legal aspect is clear, as free agents they can leave and being free agents we can sign them. No ambiguity.

Moral ambiguity?, morality died between football clubs decades ago. There was no morality from other clubs when we were up against the wall, they all took a bit of us.

Sympathy between fans, that's a different thing. Brighton fans gave us sympathy when they took Noone, Barnes and Walton, our sympathy is rightly with Bury fans. But Bury the club?, Bury the business?, nope. In business sympathy is just a word in the dictionary between sh*t and syphilis.

Vultures only attack carcasses anyway, they have to be dead already. Bury are not dead they are just being fantabulously poorly run. Much like R*dsdale's fire sale maybe it suits the owner to offload his liabilities, maybe the business is not actually shedding any tears over this. Think about it, carcasses don't put out their hand and accept an undisclosed fee, but Bury did.

I don't get this (wider, not your quote Biggsy) wringing of hands over the scouting network either. You sign what you know. DA did exactly the same with former players of his and they did OK (Jervis, Carey, Songo'o to name but three). He too signed what he knew but he didn't do it forever and neither will Lowe.

That RL is potentially going to sign more Bury players is just the result of a happy accident (happy for us, maybe for Bury?, but not the Bury fans). He has taken a job that matches exactly the job he had last summer, by almost unique chance the squad he assembled to get promotion (from virtually scratch remember) is now almost to a man a free agent. He knows how to do the job and knows which tools (sorry lads just an analogy) he needs to do the job. Why the hell should we deny him going to his trusted tool box?

To say we should only take a morally finite amount, to suggest he should allow players he knows can benefit us to go and benefit other clubs, maybe even competitors, because it might upset our indigenous failures is the soppiest of soppy bollox thinking.

Take the lot if it'll help us, he can scout for players he knows little about later. Right now thougj if 'Tab A fits Slot B' and is available, for free, what's the bleedin' problem?
 
Jul 12, 2016
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RL is professional and is therefore unlikely to sign old players unless they are of the required standard. I share the concern but surely it is "better the devil you know" As for forming a breakaway group it could also help in the relocation process as the new players move into new surroundings.
 

The Doctor

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I have no problem as far as the 'raiding Bury' angle is concerned, only with the potential for a club within a club mentality to occur (which hopefully/probably it won't).