Budget, location, facilities AND Adams transfer judgement | PASOTI
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Budget, location, facilities AND Adams transfer judgement

Biggs

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Must have mentioned it a million times today, but I was stunned when I saw that Rochdale had signed Zac Clough. An incredibly promising young player who scored consistently at Championship and League 1 level for Bolton and got a big money move to Forest.

Before I continue, I 100% believe that Adams has made big mistakes in the transfer market, so when you combine that underperformance with our pulling power as a club relative to other L1 sides it makes for a pretty ugly prospect.

Looking at it dispassionately, I’m not entirely sure why you would sign for Plymouth Argyle unless you had no other offers at this level. You have to relocate hundreds of miles away, you won’t be paid a massive amount, and until next season (and thank you James Brent and Halletts :clap: ) your day job takes place in either a crumbling asbestos ruin, or a bunch of portakabins. I’d be stunned if either of our striking additions received any other League 1 offers, or many of our other signings.

Adams hasn’t been able to pull a Carey, Jervis or Bradley out of the hat this time and he definitely deserves criticism for his judgement and our chronic displays on the pitch, but there are other issues that have hampered every Argyle manager and which go some way to explain how relatively bad we’ve been throughout our whole history.

Summary... same as the thread title. Average budget, distant location, terrible facilities and bad judgment by the manager adds up to a bit of a mess. Which makes these new grandstand facilities so utterly crucial as they go some way to solve two of those problems.
 
May 30, 2008
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All Valid points and for sure have played significant parts in our lack of success over our entire history

When you look at the clubs that have been bankrolled and have rich chairman, there cant be a better opportunity than getting Argyle to Championship.Premiership level

Question is why has Argyle never been considered by the many Rich business men out there to take a punt on Argyle?

We have a huge catchment area and have proved we can pull large crowds although fickle at best. We could guarantee full house in the top half championship every week if we got there

Do Players see Plymouth as an outpost of football. Its a Beautiful area so if the money was right then surely this would be a massive factor

The way football is going, and the money involved, we will always be lower league wannabe big club until we get any real investment
 

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I have a feeling that when the grandstand is done and investors see a club that owns its own modern, money making stadium with already approved plans for expansion... there will be massive interest.
 
Jun 1, 2015
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hoovermelon":uvfhfwaz said:
All Valid points and for sure have played significant parts in our lack of success over our entire history

When you look at the clubs that have been bankrolled and have rich chairman, there cant be a better opportunity than getting Argyle to Championship.Premiership level

Question is why has Argyle never been considered by the many Rich business men out there to take a punt on Argyle?

We have a huge catchment area and have proved we can pull large crowds although fickle at best. We could guarantee full house in the top half championship every week if we got there

Do Players see Plymouth as an outpost of football. Its a Beautiful area so if the money was right then surely this would be a massive factor

The way football is going, and the money involved, we will always be lower league wannabe big club until we get any real investment

Someone may correct me but when MaCauley was chairman we had the highest paid manager outside of the top flight and one of the biggest wage budgets in the division. It went downhill rapidly after that but happy to be corrected.
 

Biggs

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The Macauley years were more like a short burst in a microwave than a nice slow cooked long term foundation of investment and success.

Having said that, the horseshoe was initiated by him. We’d really be completely stuck in the 1950s if it wasn’t for that.
 
Apr 15, 2008
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hoovermelon":p17r9mgy said:
All Valid points and for sure have played significant parts in our lack of success over our entire history

When you look at the clubs that have been bankrolled and have rich chairman, there cant be a better opportunity than getting Argyle to Championship.Premiership level

Question is why has Argyle never been considered by the many Rich business men out there to take a punt on Argyle?

We have a huge catchment area and have proved we can pull large crowds although fickle at best. We could guarantee full house in the top half championship every week if we got there

Do Players see Plymouth as an outpost of football. Its a Beautiful area so if the money was right then surely this would be a massive factor

The way football is going, and the money involved, we will always be lower league wannabe big club until we get any real investment

Because we have no history of success (apart from a few cup runs and scattered seasons in the third and fourth tier), are far from any of the footballing hot spots with no airport. The 'huge catchment' area thing is entirely theoretical. A lot of that supposed 'catchment' is rural or just the gaps between us and the nearest League teams (despite our amazing Cornish support there's no reason why someone in Cornwall or North Devon would support a team from Plymouth.

Selling 'beautiful area' to young players who train most days and work/travel most weekends, isn't going to cut it.
 

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Pettgreen":4fxrpg1l said:
hoovermelon":4fxrpg1l said:
All Valid points and for sure have played significant parts in our lack of success over our entire history

When you look at the clubs that have been bankrolled and have rich chairman, there cant be a better opportunity than getting Argyle to Championship.Premiership level

Question is why has Argyle never been considered by the many Rich business men out there to take a punt on Argyle?

We have a huge catchment area and have proved we can pull large crowds although fickle at best. We could guarantee full house in the top half championship every week if we got there

Do Players see Plymouth as an outpost of football. Its a Beautiful area so if the money was right then surely this would be a massive factor

The way football is going, and the money involved, we will always be lower league wannabe big club until we get any real investment

Someone may correct me but when MaCauley was chairman we had the highest paid manager outside of the top flight and one of the biggest wage budgets in the division. It went downhill rapidly after that but happy to be corrected.

I think that’s correct, I recall reading that Shilton had the highest wages of any manager outside the top flight.
 
May 30, 2008
715
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Camberley, Surrey
crownhillpilgrim":384e4x0n said:
hoovermelon":384e4x0n said:
All Valid points and for sure have played significant parts in our lack of success over our entire history

When you look at the clubs that have been bankrolled and have rich chairman, there cant be a better opportunity than getting Argyle to Championship.Premiership level

Question is why has Argyle never been considered by the many Rich business men out there to take a punt on Argyle?

We have a huge catchment area and have proved we can pull large crowds although fickle at best. We could guarantee full house in the top half championship every week if we got there

Do Players see Plymouth as an outpost of football. Its a Beautiful area so if the money was right then surely this would be a massive factor

The way football is going, and the money involved, we will always be lower league wannabe big club until we get any real investment

Because we have no history of success (apart from a few cup runs and scattered seasons in the third and fourth tier), are far from any of the footballing hot spots with no airport. The 'huge catchment' area thing is entirely theoretical. A lot of that supposed 'catchment' is rural or just the gaps between us and the nearest League teams (despite our amazing Cornish support there's no reason why someone in Cornwall or North Devon would support a team from Plymouth.

Selling 'beautiful area' to young players who train most days and work/travel most weekends, isn't going to cut it.

But then looking at some of the Northern outposts like Huddersfield, Burnley, and then East anglian teams like Norwich and Ipswich

They are equally as far from the beaten track as we are, but have all had significantly more investment than we have ever had, albeit they have been more successful
 
Mar 14, 2009
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There is a massive factor though is being missed.

Last season our best attacking play came from Lameiras and Carey. These players are still at the club. However, one of them in particular hasn’t been treated by Adams particular well in Lameiras when tbh he has played better than others who deserved to be dropped instead.

Adams still has a number of those players he had last year at his disposal. I know full well a number are injured now. Yet at the start of the season a number weren’t and we were still playing as badly then, as we are now.

This isn’t a “this season” thing. The football we are seeing is the type of football we have seen in many of Adams games over his reign. The difference is we able to grind out a result. People didn’t complain when we could win “ugly”.

We have to stop these excuses. Yes location and budget are issues. However, like proven today when we are losing 2-0 and he brings on Canavan for Lameiras the truth is that he is a limited, negative and reactive manager who unfortunately believes the best way to win games is by the odd goal. Which means often when we are playing well and winning he will revert to defensive tactics and allow teams back into the game. Prime example this season is Wycombe at HP this season. Winning one nil he allowed Wycombe back into the game by trying to sit on a lead.

There are no more reasons or excuses. Adams isn’t as good as unfortunately people have made out.
 

Biggs

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Huddersfield and Burnley are the opposite of far from the beaten track, they’re both within 50 miles and good transport links from Leeds, Manchester, Liverpool, Sheffield etc etc.

All traditional hotbeds of footballing talent, so if you’re from Manchester and Huddersfield want to sign you, you probably don’t even have to move house. Plus you’re equidistant between Scotland and England, and there are a plethora of airports for European players.

Ipswich is a pretty short train ride from London, Norwich is a better example but even that is better connected and obviously had big success over the last 30 years while Argyle stood still.
 

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Metal_Green_Mickey":atzp1sz1 said:
There is a massive factor though is being missed.

Last season our best attacking play came from Lameiras and Carey. These players are still at the club. However, one of them in particular hasn’t been treated by Adams particular well in Lameiras when tbh he has played better than others who deserved to be dropped instead.

Adams still has a number of those players he had last year at his disposal. I know full well a number are injured now. Yet at the start of the season a number weren’t and we were still playing as badly then, as we are now.

This isn’t a “this season” thing. The football we are seeing is the type of football we have seen in many of Adams games over his reign. The difference is we able to grind out a result. People didn’t complain when we could win “ugly”.

We have to stop these excuses. Yes location and budget are issues. However, like proven today when we are losing 2-0 and he brings on Canavan for Lameiras the truth is that he is a limited, negative and reactive manager who unfortunately believes the best way to win games is by the odd goal. Which means often when we are playing well and winning he will revert to defensive tactics and allow teams back into the game. Prime example this season is Wycombe at HP this season. Winning one nil he allowed Wycombe back into the game by trying to sit on a lead.

There are no more reasons or excuses. Adams isn’t as good as unfortunately people have made out.

To be fair, I am making a specific point about the signings (including bad judgment from Adams) rather than the separate issue of style of play.
 
Mar 14, 2009
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We know location is a factor but at the same time it doesn’t mean you have to sign bad player after player .
How do Accrington on their tiny budget get to find decent players at this level. They would have to use youngsters from clubs around them. Yet look at our youth policy. We can’t even ustlise some of the youngsters we have got at the club. Tuesday being a prime example against Swindon when Cooper should have played instead of Letheren.

Argyle have the advantage that if you play good football you can increase your gates. We have seen a rise in attendances with Adams style of football. That says it all. That even boring football will attract people through the turnstiles as long as we win.

Instead of moaning about location why don’t people sell the location to the players. Seems to me all we do is look for easy excuses when in fact l reckon people would love living down here if you actually tried to be positive.
 
May 30, 2008
715
0
Camberley, Surrey
Biggs":3vaq9hqk said:
Huddersfield and Burnley are the opposite of far from the beaten track, they’re both within 50 miles and good transport links from Leeds, Manchester, Liverpool, Sheffield etc etc.

All traditional hotbeds of footballing talent, so if you’re from Manchester and Huddersfield want to sign you, you probably don’t even have to move house. Plus you’re equidistant between Scotland and England, and there are a plethora of airports for European players.

Ipswich is a pretty short train ride from London, Norwich is a better example but even that is better connected and obviously had big success over the last 30 years while Argyle stood still.

Poor Rail, Road and air networks definitely have a part to play, especially for young 18-25 year olds who don't want to be isolated

Catch 22. We can only become a bigger fish by attracting better talent with excessive wages even higher than the going rate which we cant afford without more investment. Investment isnt forthcoming due to our location and lack of success
 
Mar 14, 2009
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Biggs":bjpvpf4k said:
Metal_Green_Mickey":bjpvpf4k said:
There is a massive factor though is being missed.

Last season our best attacking play came from Lameiras and Carey. These players are still at the club. However, one of them in particular hasn’t been treated by Adams particular well in Lameiras when tbh he has played better than others who deserved to be dropped instead.

Adams still has a number of those players he had last year at his disposal. I know full well a number are injured now. Yet at the start of the season a number weren’t and we were still playing as badly then, as we are now.

This isn’t a “this season” thing. The football we are seeing is the type of football we have seen in many of Adams games over his reign. The difference is we able to grind out a result. People didn’t complain when we could win “ugly”.

We have to stop these excuses. Yes location and budget are issues. However, like proven today when we are losing 2-0 and he brings on Canavan for Lameiras the truth is that he is a limited, negative and reactive manager who unfortunately believes the best way to win games is by the odd goal. Which means often when we are playing well and winning he will revert to defensive tactics and allow teams back into the game. Prime example this season is Wycombe at HP this season. Winning one nil he allowed Wycombe back into the game by trying to sit on a lead.

There are no more reasons or excuses. Adams isn’t as good as unfortunately people have made out.

To be fair, I am making a specific point about the signings (including bad judgment from Adams) rather than the separate issue of style of play.

Yeah but what about the number of players he still has here from last season? No more excuses. He has treated Lameiras appallingly for starters. The way he subs him when clearly there have been worse players on the pitch. J Grant is another. He has played better than Carey at times and yet who gets benched. It’s never Carey.

The new signings are poor. However, the way a number of players who are here from last season and has lost form is a major factor too.