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Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation

Posted: 21:21 15 Mar 2019
by CJH
All this anger, at the cliff edge and being told we must respect the result of the second referendum and jump over the cliff. The Brexit voted for was a Bentley and we are being offered a trabant, the change of the offer should trigger a new referendum.

Here is the main problem, we are still split into two very differing camps, any decision will leave up to 50% of the population disenfranchised, thats what has to be solved. That means modifying the structure, operating procedures of the EU for the benefit of all members, addressing issues like mass immigration, streamlining organisation to provide recognition of representation, boarder security are just a few.

I am 76 and voted to remain for the good of future generations.

CJH

Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation

Posted: 21:26 15 Mar 2019
by MickyD
Psephological facts from the 2016 referendum:

18-24 age group: 71% Remain, 29% Leave
65+ age group (aka oldies): 36% Remain, 64% Leave.

Biological facts:

Lots of people aged 65+ have died since the referendum
Lots of people have turned 18 since the referendum.

Political certainty: these facts will have occurred to other people too, and Brexiters will not like the implications for a second referendum.

Is that now clear enough for those who chose to take offence rather than take a moment to consider what I actually meant?

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... tain-voted

Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation

Posted: 23:24 15 Mar 2019
by Greenrod
MickyD wrote: Psephological facts from the 2016 referendum:

18-24 age group: 71% Remain, 29% Leave
65+ age group (aka oldies): 36% Remain, 64% Leave.

Biological facts:

Lots of people aged 65+ have died since the referendum
Lots of people have turned 18 since the referendum.

Political certainty: these facts will have occurred to other people too, and Brexiters will not like the implications for a second referendum.

Is that now clear enough for those who chose to take offence rather than take a moment to consider what I actually meant?

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... tain-voted


How many baby boomers have crept into the 65+ age group since the referendum? Probably more than reached voting age and won’t register to vote or get out of bed to vote.

Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation

Posted: 23:46 15 Mar 2019
by Martyn
Another item to throw into the mix, was the parameters of the referendum.

As the referendum was close, and was expected to be fairly tight. It should had covered a 2/3 majority win, if not stay as the status quo. Or have another referendum the following year, in 2017.

Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation

Posted: 01:31 16 Mar 2019
by greeneagle
2/3 majority win..... I like it, could we also have that to determine the result of football matches?

Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation

Posted: 07:22 16 Mar 2019
by Mike E
According to the ageometer on here I appear to be a spring chicken at 58. I find it difficult to comprehend, when the leave campaign freely admit that we are likely to experience ten to fifteen years of hardship while we rebuild our economy to suit this brave new world they propose, those in their latters years would wish it upon themselves to risk a down turn in their standard of living. Turkeys voting for Christmas.

You'd think it would be the young voting for this promised Eutopia

Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation

Posted: 15:57 16 Mar 2019
by Quinny
CJH wrote:
Here is the main problem, we are still split into two very differing camps, any decision will leave up to 50% of the population disenfranchised, thats what has to be solved.


And you know what? I don't think it will ever be resolved. I read an article about the miners' strike 35 odd years ago and the divisions which *still* exist within the mining communities. And this is my fear about Brexit: I've heard of many stories of younger voters who refuse to talk to their parents because they voted differently, and we know that if Brexit actually happens there'll be a campaign for us to re-enter the EU. And if, by whatever miracle Brexit is cancelled ... well we know that the anti-EU brigade will start campaining for another referendum. I genuinely can't see a solution out of this, bar Norway + (which won't happen) so that everyone, leavers and remainers, is pi$$ed off with the result.

Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation

Posted: 12:58 17 Mar 2019
by Martyn
I here the Chancellor was involved in meetings with the DUP yesterday,

Now why would the Chancellor be involved ???.

Another bung coming. She will stop at nothing to get her way, utter contempt for Parliament, and the country.

Or is it in the National , (sorry Tory party), Interest.

Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation

Posted: 16:33 17 Mar 2019
by MickyD
Yep, looks like another tasty bribe for the DUP (who really should just decamp en masse to the Bible Belt and be done with it), while "austerity Britain" has apparently been skint for years.

I see that the EU, unsurprisingly, have been considering options in the event of Britain falling even more deeply into chaos:

Revealed: EU war-gaming for fall of May’s government

I suppose this will lead some to throw up their hands in phony outrage, just as they did when leaked documents revealed that the Bank of England was working on no-deal worst case scenarios a year or two ago. Of course, the fact of the matter is that major institutions most heavily affected by all of this would be shamefully negligent in their duties if they did anything less than form detailed plans for multiple eventualities.

Oh, hang on a minute - isn't the UK government the major institution most heavily affected of all?

Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation

Posted: 18:00 17 Mar 2019
by MickyD
And speaking of the DUP and this whole shameful and embarrassing epoisode in British history, I'd recommend a read of this:

Well done, Brexit ultras – the EU has never had more power over Britain

It's barely even an opinion piece in the usual sense; it's largely just a catalogue of facts - deeply, deeply depressing facts. Even the conclusion is almost entirely fact-based:

Here we must register the ingloriously ironic consequence of all these Westminster games, especially those played by the ultras. Their astonishing achievement has been to make the EU more powerful in our national affairs than it has ever been. A delay to Brexit is entirely in the EU’s gift and requires, as I noted last week, the unanimous consent of every one of its members. Each state, large or small, can say no or demand something in return for a yes. It is a fairly safe assumption that the EU will grant a British request for an extension because its leaders don’t want a calamity crash-out Brexit. But the EU gets to dictate not only whether a supplicant Britain is granted a postponement but for how long and on what terms and conditions.

This, apparently, is taking back control. Perhaps we should call it the Cursed Parliament.

Cue the "Bully Bureaucrats of Brussels" headlines when the time comes.

Thanks for the legacy, Mr Cameron, tapping away at your memoirs in your £25,000 designer garden shed. You did us proud.

Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation

Posted: 18:17 17 Mar 2019
by Pogleswoody
Now we have Esther McVey:

I believe that no deal is better than a bad deal, but now that no deal is off the table, I am planning to vote for TM the PM's bad deal.
WTF??!! :crazy:

So, she is not prepared to hold out for a good deal then!! :lol:

Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation

Posted: 18:44 17 Mar 2019
by MickyD
Pogleswoody wrote: Now we have Esther McVey:

I believe that no deal is better than a bad deal, but now that no deal is off the table, I am planning to vote for TM the PM's bad deal.
WTF??!! :crazy:

So, she is not prepared to hold out for a good deal then!! :lol:

It honestly feels as if some collective madness has befallen the House of Commons, doesn't it?

To quote again from that Andrew Rawnsley article:

Cabinet collective responsibility has so collapsed that the chancellor can float a rival Brexit proposal on the floor of the Commons while the prime minister sits beside him doing an impression of someone chewing a mouthful of wasps.

Senior ministers can rebel against the government’s positions on hugely significant issues without having to quit. Among the many haywire spectacles of the past few days, we had eight members of the cabinet voting against a government motion to delay Brexit. These ministerial mutineers included the Brexit secretary, Steve Barclay. He delivered a speech from the dispatch box exhorting MPs to “act in the national interest” by supporting a delay moments before walking into the division lobbies to vote against his own argument. Another first for the Brexit follies.

Just a couple of examples, over just the last few days, and either one should, in any sane society, beggar belief - but we have more madness yet to come, probably to top anything we've seen to date.

Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation

Posted: 19:28 17 Mar 2019
by Martyn
Pogleswoody wrote: Now we have Esther McVey:

I believe that no deal is better than a bad deal, but now that no deal is off the table, I am planning to vote for TM the PM's bad deal.
WTF??!! :crazy:

So, she is not prepared to hold out for a good deal then!! :lol:


So she ‘changed her mind’, and will now vote for TM deal. In one breath, but will deny the nation, a second peoples vote, in another breath.

Absolute hypocrisy