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 Post subject: Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:27 pm 
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Location: Kenton, Devon
gandalf_the_green wrote:
I remember reading somewhere Juncker saying the UK rejoining might mean having to accept the Euro as our currency and becoming members of the Schenegen zone.


Those are indeed pre-requisites of joining the EU, Gandalf. If we left and then re-applied to join, we would have to accept the Euro and Schengen. And not have a rebate.

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 Post subject: Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:28 pm 
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It's almost looking like we'd be better off not leaving the EU in the first place.

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 Post subject: Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:35 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:53 am
I don’t know how we use NPR systems. All I know is that if I drive into Central London or across the Dartford Bridge if I don’t pay up in time I get a fine. Likewise if I stop at a motorway service station for more than two hours I get a fine.

I think if photos are taken at the point of arrival and/ or ICD that will suffice. If there’s no free trade agreement then you stump up. Customs can still do their spot checks but there are other ways of detecting contraband and illegal immigrants which could be used in most cases if not all.

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 Post subject: Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:40 pm 
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I know how NPR works - it's linked into the DVLA database (albeit there's a 24/48 hour lag from additions to what is presented to specified bodies). Which is fine for all UK traffic, but a bit bloody pointless when it comes to European rigs, and that's the sticking point. How does the UK create a database which logs all registered lorries owned by hauliers? How much notice is required? How do you log the goods in those trucks so that they don't have to get checked at custom borders? How do you prevent illegal passage of goods?

It's all well and good the Govt suggesting that technology can solve the issue, but they need give a working brief of how they want the technology to work. And having been involved in several Government IT systems, it won't happen overnight. 5 years from now minimum.

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 Post subject: Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:31 pm 
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gandalf_the_green wrote:
Ave_IT wrote:
gandalf_the_green wrote:
Anything remotely like the Norway deal is a complete shambles as far as I am concerned,and that seems to be the way we are heading.
As many people have said across the country, what the hell was the point of brexit,it will achieve absolutely nothing to enhance our country.
The Tory party should be ashamed of themselves.

I completely agree but (maybe) strongly disagree. The Norway deal is a shambles in that we have achieved nothing but diminished our global power by completely surrendering our very considerable decision making weight in the EU. However much May tries to dress it up we will have become a 'vassal state' of the EU so what was the bleedin' point? Not so much shooting yourself in the foot as slowly amputating your legs with a carving knife. On the other hand the Norway deal - or something like it - is by far the least bad option ........ until we re-join.


I remember reading somewhere Juncker saying the UK rejoining might mean having to accept the Euro as our currency and becoming members of the Schenegen zone.

I think you're right Gandalf - new countries entering are supposed to be part of the euro zone too. But would we be classified as a 'new country' - or just an errant member re-joining the family after going off in a strop? The SNP certainly reckoned they'd have no trouble 'rejoining' as an independent Scotland yet retaining the pound and most of the EU seemed warm to that idea (apart from the likes of Spain for obvious reasons) - so couldn't see it being a problem as they'd just be relieved to undo all the Brexit BS without having to deal with the massive logistical issues of integrating such a large economy into the euro at the same time.


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 Post subject: Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:48 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:53 am
I assume that each country has its equivalent of DVLA. We tell the Eu we’re prepared to share ours 27 times, they only have to do it once, what’s the problem chaps. Why do you need to verify that a reg number is even valid if it’s photgraphd at the point of arrival.
It’s been over 30 years since I worked for Customs but even then there were forms that had to be completed even for intra EU trade that accompanied each consignment. Unless that’s been dumped there seems to be a system there that can be tweaked.

I know what you mean about IT systems and I can assure you from bitter experience that the public sector does not have a monopoly on IT disasters. But the government does need to get it’s finger out pdq but I think we all no that.

Just to be clear I’m not trying to argue for or against Brexit. There’s plenty f other people who can do that!


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 Post subject: Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:17 pm 
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It won't be a case of sharing once though. How many trucks are registered on a daily basis within the EU with their respective versions of the DVLA? We would need unfettered access to those databases which in itself would be a problem as that data is protected by the ECJ, which we will no longer recognise. And the EU have made it quite clear where they stand regarding us accessing data as a third country.

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 Post subject: Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:54 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:53 am
Then if their non sharing of data results in there being no deal then it’s their problem isn’t it.


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 Post subject: Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:13 pm 
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Nope. It's our problem because we refuse to acknowledge the jurisdiction of the ECJ. If we did then having access to the databases won't be so much of an issue.

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 Post subject: Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:33 am 

Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:53 am
Sorry but if one country is prepared to share data and the other 27 aren’t then I think most people will see where any blame lies. There’s a compromise there somewhere if someone is brave enough.

This recognition of the ECJ is a bit of a red herring as the UK Courts always take into consideration rulings given by other jurisdictions even now. The decisions of the ECJ will fall into that category. We won’t have to follow them but we might if we think it appropriate. They will be persuasive not obligatory. Whatever happens we won’t be throwing all of that ECJ jurisprudence out the window. It’s there to be cited in any case and you can bet your life it will be even in legal disputes between UK entities over a matter of UK law. It’s just that the implementation of the decisions of the ECJ will no longer be mandatory.


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 Post subject: Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:53 am 

Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 8:24 am
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So Trump gets in on the Brexit act. He is clearly on a mission of deliberate provocation and disruption wherever he goes as he tries to upset world order and make his position seem ever more important. He knows that he (well the USA really) holds all the cards and there he is perched, looking down on those other world leaders who have an extremely challenging balancing act to perform.

Meanwhile Jezza snipes from the sidelines about how terrible it is that we should be dealing with him, and inviting him to our country. Easy to do in your position Jeremy, but perhaps not so easy if (God forbid) you ever became PM.

And on a sidenote, I see that Jared O'Mara has resigned from Labour - but not as an MP. The man who ousted Nick Clegg is certainly a controversial character.


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 Post subject: Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:08 pm 
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Kentishgreen wrote:
Sorry but if one country is prepared to share data and the other 27 aren’t then I think most people will see where any blame lies. There’s a compromise there somewhere if someone is brave enough.

This recognition of the ECJ is a bit of a red herring as the UK Courts always take into consideration rulings given by other jurisdictions even now. The decisions of the ECJ will fall into that category. We won’t have to follow them but we might if we think it appropriate. They will be persuasive not obligatory. Whatever happens we won’t be throwing all of that ECJ jurisprudence out the window. It’s there to be cited in any case and you can bet your life it will be even in legal disputes between UK entities over a matter of UK law. It’s just that the implementation of the decisions of the ECJ will no longer be mandatory.


There's a difference between sharing data, and having unfettered access to data, the latter being what we'll be locked out of once we leave the EU. The UK would have to strike an individual agreement with all other 27 nations over sharing data, but "sharing" pertinent data isn't a problem, as long as EU laws are abided by. The problem here is that there will be some lag in number plate recognition (already an issue here with the changes in car tax: I know several people who have been stopped by the rozzer after buying a car, taxing and insuring it, but the police databases and on-car NPR systems not being up to date and pulling them over) and data being passed over to a UK database. This is entirely different to allowing the UK to have unfettered to their databases, which we won't be allowed once we become a third country. And the EU can't make a special case for us, over that of other third countries: after all, we're the ones leaving. TM has red lines which cannot be crossed, so she can't cry foul when the EU fairly imposes its rules on us once we finally leave.

One day Brexiters (and the flipping Labour party, who are just as blind over this as the Tories) will realise that, as it's (apparently) our decision to leave, we won't have special rights over other third countries. We are going to be treated as any other third country, whether we like it or not. And that was - apparently - the will of the nation. Our decision. Except mine.

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 Post subject: Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:10 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 8:24 am
Location: Saltash (or Feltham)
First indications of Brexit having an impact on the polls. The swing from UKIP to Conservative which saved TM in 2017 is gradually reversing with UKIP's voting intention rising again, leaving Labour with consistent polling leads for the first time since April.

Conservative Home also suggesting canvassing of local party HQs to determine how bad it is on the doorstep - which is not a good sign for TM.

The electorate is both polarised and emotionally bound when it comes to Brexit. With the split also apparent in Labour - though not as well publicised due to them being in Opposition - this topic has the potential to re-draw the political map.


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