Is this our best chance since ‘66? | PASOTI
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Is this our best chance since ‘66?

Mar 14, 2009
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First off l want to say the England team and management have done a great job getting us to this stage of the World Cup.

Is the eutrophic reaction too much? Well if you can’t enjoy these type of moments what is the point of supporting a football team. We have had enough hellish situations to surely allow ourselves some maybe over the top celebrations as getting to the semi finals of a World Cup is just one of those joyous, but rare experience.

Now expectations are we have a great chance to get to the final. One reason seem to be this easy draw explanation. However, the teams we play are no mugs. Croatia are also on the verge of making history for their nation. They must be on such an amazing high after two penalty victories in both rounds.

England too must be on a high after such a competent performance against Sweden. Normally our encounters are tense one goal margin type games or draws.

With all that said l think of the two semi finals we have had before against German teams. Those shoot outs will forever be in our memories. Yet we had two amazing teams. One with a Gazza genius at his peak in ‘90 and who was short of physical attributes from 6 years before but could still have moments of genuine brilliance like against Scotland.

In 1990, the team line up for semi final was Peter Shilton (GK), Paul Parker (RB), Des Walker, Mark Wright (Sweeper), Terry Butcher (CB), Stuart Pearce (LB), David Platt (MID), Chris Waddle (RM), Paul Gascoigne (MID), Peter Beardsley (LM) and Gary Lineker (ST).

In 1996, the team line up for semi final was was David Seaman (GK), Pearce (CB), Southgate (CB), Tony Adams (CB), Darren Anderton (RWB), Steve Macmannan (LWB), David Platt (CM), Paul Gascoigne (CM), Paul Ince (CM), Teddy Sheringham (CF) and Alan Shearer (ST).

Now this is our first semi final appearance in 28 years. And yet when l see the experience and skill set of the above two teams and then look at our current first choice 11 I think the task of reaching only our second World Cup final might be beyond us especially when teams as good as above struggled to make that break through.

We currently have players who are in and out of their teams back home. Stones for Man City and Lingard for Man Utd. We have a GK who has only just established himself in the Premier League. We have a number of Spurs players who are achieving their club champions league status in the Premier League but can’t win a trophy currently. Now we expected their first trophy in their careers to be a World Cup.

The England players are now seemingly favourites to win a World Cup semi final against Croatia players that play for Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus, Inter Milan, Monaco etc....who are use to big games and big occasions. People say Croatia haven’t played well. Nor did Real Madrid in the champions league rounds this year. Yet somehow these teams & players know how to win.

Basically, this achievement so far for England is pretty fantastic considering what players Southgate has at his disposal. Yet given the Croatians have more world class players currently and have players who have the know how & experiences to win tournament football then I am not sure why they aren’t favourites.

I think we are all being swept away with optimism that it is our time. That because we been on the wrong end of results in big games before that it will finally mean football is coming home. However, l think we have to be realistic given the players who currently wearing that England shirt and although we don’t want to suffer heart break once more this time l fear it will because of how neglected English younger players have been to the exposure of top flight premier league football at the expense of average foreign players.

The best players in the Premier League are currently Belgium and French. Thanks to English football we have helped developed these nations talent and brought them on the brink of being World Cup winners. Even Croatian players, like Modric have developed their game via English Football. Unfortunately though our English players are being pushed down the football pyramid ladder in order to play. Maybe the English players aren’t good enough but how will we know if they aren’t exposed to European club football on a regular basis for example. Then when any English player is decent their transfer price is mind boggling just because he is English. So clubs will continue to go for cheaper non English options.

They said English football needed a winter break. And yet Premier based French and Belgium players don’t looked fatigued.

We been making excuses for years for our failure. Now we have had some success l worry that we will think there is nothing wrong with the English game. Especially as if the trend of English players playing top flight football continues then the pool of players becomes even smaller than it is now.

If we go out on Wednesday night, as I suspect we might, l just hope we actually do learn something from this experience so we aren’t waiting another 28 years to reach a semi final.
 
Sep 13, 2003
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Good post Mickey.
One thing I would say is experience didn't count for much in previous World Cup campaign failures. Also dont forget that English clubs were banned from Europe....many of that Italia 90 squad had no European experience at all. I bet Gazza didn't even have a passport until he was called up! Some of the squad even played in Scotland (Steven, Stevens, Woods and Butcher) and the English 2nd division (Bull). Overall our performances so far have probably been better than Italia 90 and Euro 96.

I have no doubt we can do it on Wednesday! Just arrived back in Moscow. Day 29 of this massive adventure!
 
Mar 14, 2009
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Clarke_B":334yhcpb said:
Good post Mickey.
One thing I would say is experience didn't count for much in previous World Cup campaign failures. Also dont forget that English clubs were banned from Europe....many of that Italia 90 squad had no European experience at all. I bet Gazza didn't even have a passport until he was called up! Some of the squad even played in Scotland (Steven, Stevens, Woods and Butcher) and the English 2nd division (Bull). Overall our performances so far have probably been better than Italia 90 and Euro 96.

I have no doubt we can do it on Wednesday! Just arrived back in Moscow. Day 29 of this massive adventure!

Well lm jealous. Hope we get the result we all crave for.

Regarding the 1990 squad, Lineker played for Barcelona between 86-89, Waddle had done a year at Marseille and the exodus of English players you mentioned like Butcher who played for Rangers would of got European club experience. However, your right quite a significant number hadn’t had any sort of experience as the club ban wasn’t lifted until 1990. That said look at those players from that era and then look at how many cups & titles they won between them. Also look at the natural leaders in that squad. Butcher, Pearce, Wright, Lineker etc..... Also they had an experienced manager who knew how to win things at domestic and European level.

It’s sounds like lm having a go but not many of our current squad has won things or played a significant part in winning things. Walker & Sterling from the starting 11 are only two that l would say fit into that category. Yet both play a different position for England than they do their club side which l think is overlooked when talking about their current performances. I mean Walker isn’t a CB. Yet he is doing a job because we don’t really have ball playing CB’s with pace.

Then you have a international manager who’s never been in this position in senior tournament football. He will probably make tactical mistakes at some point in this tournament because that is the nature of football. You could say he already did when he brought Dier on against Columbia. Southgate should learn from his mistakes, but that’s unfortunate it might be in our current situation.

I think us not being use to getting over the line and into a final or winning a trophy for your club by the majority of your players & your manager, surely points to England struggling to get past Croatia, let alone win this World Cup.

If Southgate and HIS team (backroom staff and players) do this l think it will be the greatest achievement l’ve witnessed in football given how so many factors were stacked against him before the start of the tournament. I hope fans respect and understand we have a very slight chance of us winning the World Cup and not let our current achievements be overshadowed by bitter disappointment because in all honesty there are quite a few teams who should have gone further than us and that in itself is a significant achievement. I hope The FA realise too they have something to build on and don’t bask in the glory (as FA’s before them have done) as young English talent isn’t given the chance it needs. It’s ok saying at the end of all this we have a young squad and we can improve but you need the platform for these players and new ones to improve or even breakthrough into somebody’s team and that means that our top flight domestic league has to start giving English youth their opportunity, instead of some French or Belgium guy who’s a similar age.

The problem is though that the FA isn’t the only ones who need to help our national team. The Premier League and the clubs within it have to realise how important for our country a good successful England team is. Yet, the current setup show that all the clubs think about is themselves and not what is good for our game. We have screwed the English game and we propagandised fans into thinking that all that matters is your club spending money in the transfer window, whilst English talent is carried on being over looked.

You have English fans of clubs that think all that matters is their club and a player highest honour is a European club medal instead of a International European or World national team medal around your neck.

I understand people say l love Argyle more than England. It’s a preference. Yet the problem is those people that say it about Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool, Tottenham, Arsenal are the ones that help the top clubs in our country have all the power. The problem with this train of thought, as we know, is that power is not with our FA. If we carry on the way we are all your top teams will break away in a European super league with only promotion available via invitations.

Where does that leave us with Argyle and around 80 other English clubs? It leaves us with serveral leagues which becomes a farce because we would never have a pathway to elite club football. The media focus would be shifted away from not only English club football, but leaves it’s national team banging another nail into its coffin as English clubs in a European super league wouldn’t have the time or incarnation to develop its English youth.
 

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I think we had a wonderful chance in 2002. We would have had every chance of beating Turkey in the semi-final, and had hammered Germany 5-1 earlier that season. It's such a shame we cocked it up against Brazil.
 

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I think we had a wonderful chance in 2002. We would have had every chance of beating Turkey in the semi-final, and had hammered Germany 5-1 earlier that season. It's such a shame we cocked it up against Brazil.

We should have beaten Brazil. An unfit Beckham jibbed out of a challenge on the half way line. 1-1. Seaman then let's in a soft free kick. 1-2.
 
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Where is our 2018 equivalent of Nobby Stiles and Norman Hunter to police Croatia's Modric. I recall the excellent job Nobby did to suppress the talents of Eusebio in 1966. Perhaps we need one now?
 

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Win or lose whatever happens tonight will be etched in our memories and replayed on TV for decades.

This is a great article on the BBC ...

BBC
 
Sep 6, 2006
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Argylegames":9qwom85y said:
I would say it is our best chance since 1970. We effed up then.


Nonsense. We had stronger squads in 2002 and 2006. This squad very inexperienced. Actually over-achieved rather than 'effedd it up' and came up against a side with 4 world class players. But there will always be someone looking to put a downer on things. You said elsewhere you don't watch England games so how would you know?
 
Jan 20, 2004
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We did well in this world cup because, for once, expectations were low. Over the last ten / fifteen years we as a nation have become used to being crap in international tournaments.
We beat all expectations this time yet the only problem now is that expectations will be high again for the next one.
 

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Balham_Green":45fb20yu said:
Argylegames":45fb20yu said:
I would say it is our best chance since 1970. We effed up then.


Nonsense. We had stronger squads in 2002 and 2006. This squad very inexperienced. Actually over-achieved rather than 'effedd it up' and came up against a side with 4 world class players. But there will always be someone looking to put a downer on things. You said elsewhere you don't watch England games so how would you know?

If you bothered to look, my comment about effing up in 1970 was before we lost last night. I stand by my assertion that we effed up in 1970 - mainly due to a certain goalkeeper.
 
Aug 5, 2015
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You’re right we did eff it up in 1970 but I always put that down to the subbing of wor Bobby which freed up Beckenbauer. Of course a certain goalkeeper contributed as well!