Dare we?? | PASOTI
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Dare we??

Jul 25, 2011
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It's the dream that we dare not speak its name but is anyone else pinching themselves as the reality dawns that we're two victories away against Sweden and either Russia or Croatia from the WORLD CUP FINAL!
Yes I know it's one game at a time and we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves but surely I can't be the only one thinking we really can do this?
I know we've been here before too many times and maybe we've got a national psychological problem with winning, I know it just doesn't feel right but... I think we've got one or two pieces of luck in the bank considering past tournaments.
Can we dream? Should we?
How you going to have a dream come true :?
Or are we just setting ourselves up for yet another of the endless list of kicks to the nuts?
 
May 22, 2006
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Yes, we dare. The quarter-finals were about par for most people, so normally anything else would be a Brucey Bonus.

But the world cup has opened out in a way very few predicted. We can do Sweden, and I wasn't especially impressed with Russia or Croatia's last matches either. I don't fancy us against France or Brazil in the final, but given the way this world cup has gone, who's to say they'll even get there? Maybe we'll do a Greece and slug our way to victory. That'll do.

Dare. It may well end in hurt and disappointment, but don't be afraid of that. Embrace it. Pain is where we go to learn. People will come here and tell you to calm down, take each game as it comes and be rational. A pox on them. It's the team's job to stay focused, not ours. It's a long time since we got this far, and some of us won't be alive when it comes again. Soak it in.
 
Jul 25, 2011
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Ham Green":2x9hzgmb said:
Yes, we dare. The quarter-finals were about par for most people, so normally anything else would be a Brucey Bonus.

But the world cup has opened out in a way very few predicted. We can do Sweden, and I wasn't especially impressed with Russia or Croatia's last matches either. I don't fancy us against France or Brazil in the final, but given the way this world cup has gone, who's to say they'll even get there? Maybe we'll do a Greece and slug our way to victory. That'll do.

Dare. It may well end in hurt and disappointment, but don't be afraid of that. Embrace it. Pain is where we go to learn. People will come here and tell you to calm down, take each game as it comes and be rational. A pox on them. It's the team's job to stay focused, not ours. It's a long time since we got this far, and some of us won't be alive when it comes again. Soak it in.
Ahh almost churchilian :clap:
I can barely stand how close it feels, can Sweden put of out of this perpetual hope-hurt cycle and save me from further hope just to see it dashed once again. If pain is a learning process then we've got a masters degree from Cambridge in it,its like waiting in th dentist getting a tooth pulled, just do it already the tensions killing me.
I honestly don't know if I could watch us in a final? I'd have to go for a walk or something or kid myself I don't really care that much, until we win :D
 

Voice of Reason

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We are all hoping and the draw could not have been kinder to us.

You say you learn in hurt. We haven't. We aren't the best team in it so we were promised we would be brave. Well against a truly poor side last night we entered extra time with 5 at the back 2 holding midfielders and our attacking midfielder out on his feet. Where was the bravery to go and win the game? We might not be so fortunate next time.
We had how many seemingly pointless friendlies that told us little... The one thing we thought we had established that despite both being decent player Dier and Henderson don't work as a pair they are too defensive, too slow and are never going to support attacks in international football so in our moment of need what do we revert to?

We are all dreaming and all hoping but I maybe the only person who is now less convinced of our chances after the win.
 
Sep 6, 2006
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Voice_of_Reason":ym7w92j2 said:
We are all hoping and the draw could not have been kinder to us.

You say you learn in hurt. We haven't. We aren't the best team in it so we were promised we would be brave. Well against a truly poor side last night we entered extra time with 5 at the back 2 holding midfielders and our attacking midfielder out on his feet. Where was the bravery to go and win the game? We might not be so fortunate next time.
We had how many seemingly pointless friendlies that told us little... The one thing we thought we had established that despite both being decent player Dier and Henderson don't work as a pair they are too defensive, too slow and are never going to support attacks in international football so in our moment of need what do we revert to?

We are all dreaming and all hoping but I maybe the only person who is now less convinced of our chances after the win.


I was never convinced before but our supposed creative players Sterling Del Alli Lingard were poor. Sweden won't be any easier to break down. Bit harsh Re the tactics though. Surely you recognize Dier was brought on late to protect the 1.0 and then we were stuck with him. Think Sweden will nick it 1.0.
 
Jul 25, 2011
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Voice_of_Reason":17aee6op said:
We are all hoping and the draw could not have been kinder to us.

You say you learn in hurt. We haven't. We aren't the best team in it so we were promised we would be brave. Well against a truly poor side last night we entered extra time with 5 at the back 2 holding midfielders and our attacking midfielder out on his feet. Where was the bravery to go and win the game? We might not be so fortunate next time.
We had how many seemingly pointless friendlies that told us little... The one thing we thought we had established that despite both being decent player Dier and Henderson don't work as a pair they are too defensive, too slow and are never going to support attacks in international football so in our moment of need what do we revert to?

We are all dreaming and all hoping but I maybe the only person who is now less convinced of our chances after the win.

Colombia 'a truly poor side' really? The way falcao and co sliced through Poland at will was scary.
We have two winnable games to reach a final which we know is anyones. I honestly don't think there's anyone there we cannot beat. That's not to say I'm going to lump my life savings on us but just think back to all the iffy teams that have made it in the past.
It'd be absolutely ironic if we won it with these boys but we've been denied our true position on many occasions, by the law of averages it's got to work in our favour for once and I think the shootout win might be the beginning of seeing our luck levelled out. And not before time.
 
Jan 20, 2004
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I was only five years old when we won it in 1966 so don't remember anything about it. The disappointment of 1990 semi final defeat was beyond belief so if we actually got to the final and were stuffed by Brazil it would still be a step further than most of us.will ever have experienced. We can but dream but in reality feel either Sweden or Croatia will burst our bubble.
I would not look forward to semi final against Russia and a partisan crowd whistling for ninety minutes ( or more ).
 

Voice of Reason

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BG - Thats my point regarding us not learning, i know why Dier was brought onto the field but it completely ruins the way we play and worst of all we know it ruins it. So we decided 1 was enough and were proved wrong and then it was us hoping for penalties. It was screaming out for us to be brave in the last 10-15 of normal time and actually bring Rashford on and run at them, they had 5-6 guys on yellow cards, were forced to throw men upfield but we reverted to type. Dier for Henderson would work, Dier together with Henderson doesn't.
I guess we got through and that's all that matters, but i'm fearful that we haven't learnt from previous opportunities, we must play like this is a bonus and not be scared. Anything can happen in a tight game, one mistake, one bit of luck, so be daring, we have goalscorers in our side and should back ourselves in an open contest.
 

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I think Gary Neville had it right - our first 30 minutes is usually electric with Sterling and Lingard in particular finding space. But after that it gets harder as the pace goes out of our game - that's when we lack creativity. With Sweden expected to be very well organised and lacking a goal threat, it wouldn't be any surprise to see this one go the distance as well. The first 30 minutes are key I reckon.
 

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Voice_of_Reason":3ko5woue said:
BG - Thats my point regarding us not learning, i know why Dier was brought onto the field but it completely ruins the way we play and worst of all we know it ruins it. So we decided 1 was enough and were proved wrong and then it was us hoping for penalties. It was screaming out for us to be brave in the last 10-15 of normal time and actually bring Rashford on and run at them, they had 5-6 guys on yellow cards, were forced to throw men upfield but we reverted to type. Dier for Henderson would work, Dier together with Henderson doesn't.
I guess we got through and that's all that matters, but i'm fearful that we haven't learnt from previous opportunities, we must play like this is a bonus and not be scared. Anything can happen in a tight game, one mistake, one bit of luck, so be daring, we have goalscorers in our side and should back ourselves in an open contest.

I suppose Vardy was brought on to run at the tiring Colombian defence but we didn't hit long balls over the top or pass to him.

The game against Sweden will be tight and the first goal wins it.
 
Mar 7, 2006
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Personally i would have bought on Loftus Cheek to get the ball and advance us 30yards, if he loses it fair enough but at least its an out for the team.

The sub which puzzled me more than Dier (which i can see what Southgate was thinking) was Vardy who offered nothing. So frustrating. Bags of pace against a tiring defence on yellow cards yet he sat 10 yards in front of them rather that sitting on the shoulder. He didnt even close them down or defend from the front.

Dier and Henderson mopping up loose balls and protecting the back 3/5 would have worked if Vardy had offered a option for the long ball over the top. But he didnt so we had to continue trying to play our way out which was difficult with a narrow 5-2-1-2 formation.
 

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Clearly its easier for us being 2000 miles away and it not falling on our head's, but if we do fail, i want us to fail because we were trying to win the game and be attacking, i'd hate for us to lose how we always seem to by being so rigid. Towards the end of extra time Tuesday, i began to wish we had taken Andy Carroll, just because we started playing in a rigid way with no out ball (Kane could barley moved as he had worked so hard all game). Rashford or Loftus could have at least picked the ball up from deep and ran with it.
Certain sides can sit back and be cautious, like Uruguay because defenders like Godin make 1 bad error every 15-20 games, i always feel we wont get through 45-90 mins without Stones or Walker doing something drastic (i like both as players) so sitting back and being cautious doesn't suit.
Carpe Diem!
 
Well we can dream of the final no probs. We can even dream of winning it. Can we actually achieve any of it though?
Hmmmmm. Not on what ive seen so far tbh. The spirit and resilience is there no doubt.
But the suedes and the others left are going to be matching that for certain. We know the suedeheads will match us
defensively where apparently they are very strong. So we need to go up quite a few gears offensively imho and not just
for this one game either. 2 major problems for me.
Firstly, to be the best in the world we surely need to be strong all round with several world class players.
Kane and maguire have been up there but the rest are not quite ready yet imho. A young squad though so hopefully learning
and improving. Hopefully some more exciting youngsters to come through the eng youth system the next few years too.
Secondly, we come to the current managers 352/532 love in. Sorry gareth but its my pet hate with you at the moment.
I have always hated 532 right back to kev hodges days as a manager. Bessie, paul gibbs, richard flash and jon ashton as
attacking wing backs. Sometimes it would work and they would play as att WBS should do attacking high up the pitch in a 352 but most
times they would be forced back marking opponents deliberately playing wide and high and we would then end up being
more a 532 and become VERY pedestrian. Bit like england against colombia and belgium who played 433 and 343 against us respectively.
Both games especially colombia our WBs, especially young hardly got past the half way line.
On top of that we had our 2 promising young att mids playing box to box roles which isnt the no10 roles they usually play for their club sides.
So not surprisingly we have looked pedestrian going forward though tbf very solid at the back. Set pieces has been our main trump card for goals.
But the last 2 games against better teams even that threat has now seemingly been worked out by our opponents. Basically baulk maguire.
So thats why at the moment i aint hopeful.
I disagree with some who say dier/henderson doesnt work. I believe it would be better offensively for our team as a whole if
there are 2 sitters which would then free up the WBS to get right upfield when in possession and allow for 2 more attacking types
to support harry kane. You could then have any 2 from 4 of ali, lingard, sterling and rashford to do this and link with kane and the WBs.
It doesnt have to be dier either as loftus-cheek was MOM on his debut in the role alongside dier in the friendly 0-0 against germany when
southgate was still using 2 sitters in the team.
Anyhow i desperately hope we can do it. It really is a great opportunity to get to the final at least.
Only 4 more world cups and ill be 80. Aaaagh! Come on eng.
 

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PL2 3DQ":1s3we1f7 said:
I suppose Vardy was brought on to run at the tiring Colombian defence but we didn't hit long balls over the top or pass to him.

The game against Sweden will be tight and the first goal wins it.

Or even pass in front of him. Vardy is clearly a player who needs the ball in front - not easy to do that at this level.

If (God forbid) anything happened to Kane, I'd be more inclined to use Welbeck as a deputy as he is probably the best of the other 3 at linking play with back to goal, then Rashford, and Vardy as last pick.

However, for this game with Kane assumed fit, I'd replace Alli (not fit) with Sterling and play Rashford in the latter's role. With 3 centre-halves plus Henderson we have ample protection against the Swedes for a bit of adventure - which is what we will need.