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Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation

Posted: 09:54 13 Mar 2019
by Greenrod
Listening to the proposals from both sides of the argument, I think it is between the ERG’s Malthouse proposal or the cross party Common Market 2.0 proposal. A largely Remain Parliament will probably vote for the latter, although Corbyn will need to whip his MP’s for this to happen.

A 3 months extension of Article 50 will probably be needed to get it over the line.

We shall see in the next couple of weeks.

Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation

Posted: 11:27 13 Mar 2019
by Ave_IT
Going well this Brexit thing isn’t it?

Do you think there’s any chance that the Brexiteers might one day admit they were wrong and apologise for their ludicrous claims (and downright lies) that are now so patently false?

Here’s my personal top ten (there are dozens and dozens) …..Reading these now makes you want to laugh, scream and weep all at the same time….

1) Coming to a free trade agreement with the EU should be "one of the easiest in human history.' Liam Fox, July 2017

2) 'Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards.' John Redwood, July 2016

3) 'The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want.' Michael Gove, April 2016

4) 'It is like threading the eye of a needle. If you have a good eye and a steady hand, it is easy enough,' David Davis, December 2016, dismissing fears a Brexit deal might be difficult

5) 'There is no reason why the UK’s only land border should be any less open after Brexit than it is today.” Theresa Villiers, April 2016, on the Irish issue

6) “Without our EU budget contributions, we could give everyone a 60 per cent council tax cut.” Daniel Hannan, September 2015

7) ‘I believe that we can get a free trade and customs agreement concluded before March 2019’. David Davis, January 2017

8) 'Trade relations with the EU could be sorted out in 'an afternoon over a cup of coffee,' Gerard Batten, UKIP Brexit spokesman, February 2017

9) “I hear people saying, ‘Oh, we won’t have any [free trade agreements] before we leave’. Well, believe me we’ll have up to 40 ready for one second after midnight in March 2019.” Liam Fox, October 2017

AND FINALLY …. ONE THAT IS COMPLETELY TRUE……

10) 'If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy”. David Davis, 2012, discussing the EU

Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation

Posted: 16:40 13 Mar 2019
by Mike E
11) "We can have our cake and eat it" Boris Johnson (sorry can't remember the date).....Oh and "f**k business"

Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation

Posted: 19:18 13 Mar 2019
by CJH
What happened to Boris, have not heard a tweet out of him for ages, he was one of the main protagonist in the Brexit vote and probably holds the main responcibility for this mess.

Can anyone enlightend me what is the position of the Channel Islands with regard to BREXIT.?

CJH

Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation

Posted: 19:22 13 Mar 2019
by cheshiregreen
Greenrod wrote: Listening to the proposals from both sides of the argument, I think it is between the ERG’s Malthouse proposal or the cross party Common Market 2.0 proposal. A largely Remain Parliament will probably vote for the latter, although Corbyn will need to whip his MP’s for this to happen.

A 3 months extension of Article 50 will probably be needed to get it over the line.

We shall see in the next couple of weeks.


But there are European elections in May. The UK will not want to be committed to being part of these.

Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation

Posted: 19:54 13 Mar 2019
by Mike E
CJH wrote: What happened to Boris, have not heard a tweet out of him for ages, he was one of the main protagonist in the Brexit vote and probably holds the main responcibility for this mess.

Can anyone enlightend me what is the position of the Channel Islands with regard to BREXIT.?

CJH


He has had a hair cut in readiness for his leadership bid when TM resigns (which should be any day now). He has obviously been told by his supporters to smarten up his image and shut his mouth to avoid putting his foot any deeper into it.

He is currently 4/1 God help us !

Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation

Posted: 20:56 13 Mar 2019
by PL2 3DQ
Boris resurfaced today with comments that police are spending too much time investigating historic child abuse allegations, which obviously hasn't gone down well.

Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation

Posted: 21:19 13 Mar 2019
by Martyn
PL2 3DQ wrote: Boris resurfaced today with comments that police are spending too much time investigating historic child abuse allegations, which obviously hasn't gone down well.


Not the first disgraceful comment, he has made is it, how can anybody consider him to be PM material

Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation

Posted: 16:13 14 Mar 2019
by Quinny
CJH wrote: What happened to Boris, have not heard a tweet out of him for ages, he was one of the main protagonist in the Brexit vote and probably holds the main responcibility for this mess.

Can anyone enlightend me what is the position of the Channel Islands with regard to BREXIT.?

CJH



He's had a haircut, and you get the impression he (and others) are now manouvering for a takeover of the Tory Party. Beause, you know, the future of the Tories is more important than, say, the United Kingdom.

Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation

Posted: 18:00 14 Mar 2019
by MickyD
There's that old saw about countries getting the leaders they deserve. I think that's a stretch (Pol Pot, for instance?!), but if sufficient numbers of a population with the luxury of a vote don't know enough, or don't care enough, and don't care enough that they don't know enough, or actively think that Prospective Leader X is A Good Thing, then they can end up with people like Johnson, Bolsonaro, Trump, Hitler and the rest.

No, I don't compare Hitler directly with people like Johnson, of course (but with people like Bolsonaro and Trump? Yeah, maybe ;)); but yes, Hitler also came to power by "the will of the people". There was no revolution or bloody coup - he didn't need one. He had propaganda, disinformation, a bitter and resentful populace that could all too easily be whipped into hatred and xenophobia - and the ballot box. Sound familiar?

Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation

Posted: 19:15 14 Mar 2019
by Greenrod
MickyD wrote: There's that old saw about countries getting the leaders they deserve. I think that's a stretch (Pol Pot, for instance?!), but if sufficient numbers of a population with the luxury of a vote don't know enough, or don't care enough, and don't care enough that they don't know enough, or actively think that Prospective Leader X is A Good Thing, then they can end up with people like Johnson, Bolsonaro, Trump, Hitler and the rest.

No, I don't compare Hitler directly with people like Johnson, of course (but with people like Bolsonaro and Trump? Yeah, maybe ;)); but yes, Hitler also came to power by "the will of the people". There was no revolution or bloody coup - he didn't need one. He had propaganda, disinformation, a bitter and resentful populace that could all too easily be whipped into hatred and xenophobia - and the ballot box. Sound familiar?


Didn't Hitler demand emergency powers for 4 years, then surrounded the Reichstag with his large military force, threatening war should they refuse? Parliament had no alternative but to give in to him, grant his wishes and appoint him absolute ruler of Germany.
Perhaps TM should follow suit :whistle:

Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation

Posted: 19:17 14 Mar 2019
by Mike E
Totally agree Micky, people are more likely to react and get out and vote against what they don't like, as they did when Hitler came to power, a chain reaction of events lead to a totally unpredictable outcome.

Canerons Austerity lead to an angry section of the population forming an unlikely coupling up with the jingoistic Tory/UKIPers to tip the scales.

The Daily Express headline today blames all our mess on 'Euro Bullies' how far, and in what direction, will this home made anger and hate take us in deflecting our own shortcomings.

Re: Government Brexit Proposal & DD Resignation

Posted: 20:32 14 Mar 2019
by MickyD
Greenrod wrote: Didn't Hitler demand emergency powers for 4 years, then surrounded the Reichstag with his large military force, threatening war should they refuse? Parliament had no alternative but to give in to him, grant his wishes and appoint him absolute ruler of Germany.
Perhaps TM should follow suit :whistle:

Oh, I wasn't suggesting that Hitler gained power by playing nice; but by then the NSDAP (Nazi Party) were the largest party in the Reichstag, and they'd got there by virtue of having won over a third of the popular vote, following those years of propaganda and disinformation (and plenty of carefully orchestrated vicious violence along the way, but nothing approaching a bloody coup). That was one of Hitler's most powerful weapons - he could claim, not entirely legitimately but not entirely fancifully either, that the people wanted him in power, and that the government had asked him to take control.

That slow "boiling frog" deterioration, for me, has disturbing parallels in modern-day situations the like of which we're seeing here and across the Atlantic. Bit by bit, day by day, previously unimaginable and appalling things (and some truly ghastly, mind-bogglingly ignorant and incompetent people in positions of power) slowly but surely become the new normal, and we're less and less shocked, and more and more quiescent - which is exactly the way that governments like us to be.