Camara made available for transfer | Page 14 | PASOTI
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Camara made available for transfer

Apr 15, 2004
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East Devon
Really disappointed to hear this. An excellent player at this level and think he spared the blushes of Houghton and our back three more than some seem to realise.

Just a thought but if Hallett doesn’t like the idea of gambling on transfers, would the fee be used to boost the wages offered to promising young players or someone scouted from lower leagues? Must admit I’ve always been more excited at seeing that kind of hungry player who is making a step up arrive than a more experienced journeyman type from the same level or even a rung or two above. Maybe that is the type of ‘investment’ Hallett is thinking of? If so let’s hope our scouts are damned good. Do scouts get transferred ? (and if so who finds them? 🤔)
 
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The Doctor

🏆 Callum Wright 23/24
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Sep 15, 2003
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I agree about players leaving. It’s inevitable.

However, these players you mentioned weren’t brought in on the cheap either. I can’t see Argyle spending anything like these sums on players in the transfer market.

Brentford took a gamble. They spent reasonable sums of money, to make more. I’m not sure Argyle are prepared to go down this same route because our chairman thinks the transfer market is a gamble.

This is what Brentford spent bringing some of those players in.


Andre Gray brought from Luton for £500,000.

Neal Maupay brought from St Etienne for 1.8 million

Ollie Watkins brought from Exeter for 6.5 million.
You need to see the other end of those transfers though

Grey sold for something like £6m
Maupay sold for something like £20m
Watkins sold for £25m-£33m (and bought for only £1.8m according to wikipedia)

and another one to add in is

Scott Hogan, bought from Rochdale for £750k, sold to Aston Villa for £8m

But these are only a few of many such deals and they started with smaller amounts . The exact numbers are not critical but it's clear that the strategy views players as assets that are bought low and sold high a few years later. These examples are all showing a 10x return (just considering the transfer fees - you could argue that the cost of the wages was returned by the value of the player during their time at the club).

I'm not suggesting that Argyle will (or should) be exactly like Brentford but the same strategy would be valid starting at a lower base - buy low when under-valued, develop/mature, sell high when over-valued (or at least more highly-valued). In Argyle's case it begins with astute free transfers who are then sold on for hundreds of thousands of pounds and then perhaps some modest fee transfers (tens of thousands - £200k) sold on for £1m. Camara, Hardie, Ennis all potentially fall into the first phase of this category, as would someone like Garrick if he was signed.

Another key difference is that Argyle are not dispensing with their youth development channel and I think that's sensible because we are not sitting next to a massive city packed with clubs who are releasing young but talented players every year. In effect it provides a basic supply of low cost talent some of which will serve the club for a period before being sold on at good profit. Cooper, Randell, Law and the younger pros coming through all fall into this category. The trick with these ones is getting them to the level where they can play for the first team because without that experience and exposure they end up being worth nothing (which is the issue the club have with Randell and Law next season - they really have to play somewhere at a higher enough level to attract interest from transfer paying clubs).

Of course, not ALL players have to fit this model. Some may just be useful assets to the club during the time they are in the squad and via their contributions on the pitch - all of the older pros fall into this category (Edwards, Mayor, Wilson etc) or they may be useful enough squad players who are relatively cheap.

I don't think it makes any difference that Simon Hallett once said that he didn't like transfer fees. He is an astute investor and he will see the logic of the 'Brentford' model but applied at the current Argyle level. And obviously the lower the level that you are playing at the less necessary it is to pay transfer fees to recruit suitable talent because there are far more players of a suitable standard to work with.
 

The Doctor

🏆 Callum Wright 23/24
✨Pasoti Donor✨
Sep 15, 2003
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andapoet.blog
Really disappointed to hear this. An excellent player at this level and think he spared the blushes of Houghton and our back three more than some seem to realise.

Just a thought but if Hallett doesn’t like the idea of gambling on transfers, would the fee be used to boost the wages offered to promising young players or someone scouted from lower leagues? Must admit I’ve always been more excited at seeing that kind of hungry player who is making a step up arrive than a more experienced journeyman type from the same level or even a rung or two above. Maybe that is the type of ‘investment’ Hallett is thinking of? If so let’s hope our scouts are damned good. Do scouts get transferred ? (and if so who finds them? 🤔)
This is an important point (I think I also made it in one of my previous posts!). The player investment may not come in the form of a transfer fee - it may be increased wages or a longer contract term (although as you move up levels I think transfer fees become inevitable).
 
Jul 18, 2011
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287
Increasing wages for a few players is always a gamble though as it can lead to dissatisfaction from the other players on lower earnings. There will always be some differences but at this level they should not be massive.

I’ve always liked Pan as a player, but how many times did we see him get into a good position and then fluff the shot.
 

MGM

✨Pasoti Donor✨
Dec 7, 2021
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You need to see the other end of those transfers though

Grey sold for something like £6m
Maupay sold for something like £20m
Watkins sold for £25m-£33m (and bought for only £1.8m according to wikipedia)

and another one to add in is

Scott Hogan, bought from Rochdale for £750k, sold to Aston Villa for £8m

But these are only a few of many such deals and they started with smaller amounts . The exact numbers are not critical but it's clear that the strategy views players as assets that are bought low and sold high a few years later. These examples are all showing a 10x return (just considering the transfer fees - you could argue that the cost of the wages was returned by the value of the player during their time at the club).

I'm not suggesting that Argyle will (or should) be exactly like Brentford but the same strategy would be valid starting at a lower base - buy low when under-valued, develop/mature, sell high when over-valued (or at least more highly-valued). In Argyle's case it begins with astute free transfers who are then sold on for hundreds of thousands of pounds and then perhaps some modest fee transfers (tens of thousands - £200k) sold on for £1m. Camara, Hardie, Ennis all potentially fall into the first phase of this category, as would someone like Garrick if he was signed.

Another key difference is that Argyle are not dispensing with their youth development channel and I think that's sensible because we are not sitting next to a massive city packed with clubs who are releasing young but talented players every year. In effect it provides a basic supply of low cost talent some of which will serve the club for a period before being sold on at good profit. Cooper, Randell, Law and the younger pros coming through all fall into this category. The trick with these ones is getting them to the level where they can play for the first team because without that experience and exposure they end up being worth nothing (which is the issue the club have with Randell and Law next season - they really have to play somewhere at a higher enough level to attract interest from transfer paying clubs).

Of course, not ALL players have to fit this model. Some may just be useful assets to the club during the time they are in the squad and via their contributions on the pitch - all of the older pros fall into this category (Edwards, Mayor, Wilson etc) or they may be useful enough squad players who are relatively cheap.

I don't think it makes any difference that Simon Hallett once said that he didn't like transfer fees. He is an astute investor and he will see the logic of the 'Brentford' model but applied at the current Argyle level. And obviously the lower the level that you are playing at the less necessary it is to pay transfer fees to recruit suitable talent because there are far more players of a suitable standard to work with.

l do see the other end. The problem is l see the starting point.

I see the starting point in league one that to achieve promotion they spent £350,000 on a forward. Does that to you sound like something Argyle will do this season?

Who knows what the future brings. And perhaps lm being naive about his comments. Yet if you look at everything he has said or done it’s about investing in something that is guaranteed to make you money. Paying transfer fees like Brentford is no guarantee.

The test will be when Cooper is sold. Because then we will see. I think people will have a shock if they actually believe Argyle will reinvest this money on transfer fees on players in excess of £500,000 k upwards in the future years.

And if you look at the Brentford model they had to spend those sorts of sums to be competitive in the Championship.

They had far more wealth to sustain this model than Argyle have. It wasn’t just from transfers they made their Investments. It’s was via the owners pockets too.
 
Mar 10, 2017
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Ipplepen
That's what annoys me about our detractors who say 'You only allow people that follow your agenda' etc.

There are many posters I don't agree with but they abide by our rules and can post freely.

It would be very boring is all of us agreed wouldn't it?

Justin often posts stuff I don't agree with but he's always respectful with it. Then there's people like BG who I often agree with, bit is quite disrespectful, so it shows how difficult it can be to moderate this site.

We've recently been accused of not taking into account women, despite having loads of women on here who enjoy the site immensely and of course about eight years of sponsoring ladies football in the direct manner we do.

It's a strange old world sometime and you can see why football clubs themselves veer away from creating their own forums. The moderation of them takes so much work and a whole load of headaches.

Our court case is ongoing and now costing this site money. :mad:
I disagree with all of that 🤣
 

Ponty

English and proud of it
Staff member
R.I.P
Sep 27, 2006
3,469
1,136
Plymouth
I've always believed that as soon as a player shows he doesn't want to be part of the team it's best to get rid asap.

I used this policy in my business as well, if somebody gave me notice I'd pay them all monies due, shake their hand and wish them good luck at the end of the day.
 
Sep 6, 2006
16,688
4,311
I've always believed that as soon as a player shows he doesn't want to be part of the team it's best to get rid asap.

I used this policy in my business as well, if somebody gave me notice I'd pay them all monies due, shake their hand and wish them good luck at the end of the day.
Not that simplistic is it? I am confident that Camara would love to stay if he could.I think he enjoys it. We all saw his emotional departure in the Sunderland game. BUT he has to take into account financial considerations.
 
Mar 1, 2014
880
344
32
Ilfracombe, Devon
I've always believed that as soon as a player shows he doesn't want to be part of the team it's best to get rid asap.

I used this policy in my business as well, if somebody gave me notice I'd pay them all monies due, shake their hand and wish them good luck at the end of the day.
How many bitter employees did you have? 😛
 
Oct 31, 2015
5,242
2,584
If anyone stayed behind at the end of the Franchise game then they would have seen Pans saying goodbye then to the fans. This has been on the cards for while tbh.
 
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Pogleswoody

R.I.P
Jul 3, 2006
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Love Pan but if a player is looking elsewhere and the price is right?
Strikes me that with released lists, youngsters (like ours) being let go that there will be oodles of little nuggets out there that we could get.
This is the 'outsmart' agenda Shirley?
 

Tugboat

Cream First
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🌟Sparksy Mural🌟
Feb 24, 2007
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Hopefully any potential transfer has a safety net of clauses attached, particularly for further sell on fees and future success
 

Dorset Green

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Feb 8, 2009
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831
Bridport
Camara has declined to agree a new deal, which is reported as being a significant improvement on his current one. He has clearly been advised by his agent that he's worth a lot more than he has been offered by the Club and his best route to achieving this is with another Club.

I would rather he stayed but the uncertainty isn't a good thing for either party. I don't think he's the sort to deliberately down tools but it is likely have a detrimental effect on his performances all the same. I don't think the Club will "give him away" , but it would be better for him to be sold earlier rather than later, with the appropriate sell-on clauses to safeguard our interests.